@Cougar Only just logged back in. I think you missed my point. Many if not most of the people who make their LPAs with us are elderly and cautious about using technology. What we add for those people is Peace of Mind and certainty that things will be done right.
The point about granting Power of Attorney is correct you can't take it it must be granted. Legislation springs from the Mental Capacity Act 2005 if you would like to research further. As for others doing the legwork. Yes - in fact you could argue that is what we do (and charge for) - anyone can help and in reality it is often the potential attorneys that assist. But the fact remains that in law a LPA can only be put in place by a donor granting power to one or more attorneys.
For the money we pay to them, someone needs to drag these bastards
These bastards would be Government, then? They're the ones who could implement a legally acceptable universal electronic signature.
And while they're about it, the same for ID.
There has recently been a review into the modernisation of Lasting Powers of Attorney and the Office of the Public Guardian have rejected the use of electronic signatures for now on the grounds that they are too open to abuse.
138 pages of bedtime reading, will get even the worst insomniac to sleep.
Many if not most of the people who make their LPAs with us are elderly and cautious about using technology.
Isn't the risk of becoming intellectually feeble why these things exist in the first place? If they're handing over PoA to other people who are frightened of computers, perhaps they're not the best people to be granting it to?
Linked directly to OP, I can vouch that the online process is simple as. I would say the only reason to being in a 3rd party is if you think anyone involved in the family/process is in any way "unscrupulous" in their intentions.
My experience of doing it, we have had to apply for an LPA on the wrong side of "decision time" for my Dad. He had a stroke last August and in the following weeks/months it became apparent that this thing called "an LPA" was needed. We started it online eventually about 3 months ago (Mum putting off slightly, she had enough on her plate) and I sat down with her and my brother and we just made sure at every page all 3 of us said "yeah that's ok", I'm happy that none of us are up to anything so we just cracked on. Luckily my parents day to day spending is in a joint account so my Mum has been ale to go on day to day but big things like pensions and investments she can't do anything with until the LPA gets signed off (takes up to 20 weeks!). As part of Dad's care it has been requested he be means tested but we can't actually even do that as the banks won't let us until LPA is done, council don't seem to understand that bit though and keep chasing, very frustrating.
I have recently tried to start dropping into conversation about doing Mum's LPA as soon as possible after seeing all the trouble we're having now, still a work in progress that 1. My advice to anyone, have the LPA conversation with family now and just have it done even if it doesn't get used for 20 years. Soon as our kids turn 18 we will probably get something for wife and I in place.
Some of the comments on here about banks and companies not being overly useful even with an LPA there, something I definitely need to take note of once it comes through. Sounds like that will be a bunch of fun all by itself.
@cougar you misunderstood me apologies if I wasn't clear. It is the people granting the power of attorney - the Donors - who are as you put it at risk of becoming intellectually feeble (Losing Capacity is the correct term) that we are advising. Their attorneys may or may not be scared of technology. Given that they tend to be younger it is normally the case that they can cope with these things.
We advise Donors as they are the only people who can grant a power of attorney. We will also advise and assist their families and potential attorneys if the Donor grants us permission.
Sure. And as Stuart says, "is if you think anyone involved in the family/process is in any way “unscrupulous” in their intentions."
The really unscrupulous ones do it themselves online and then hand it to their parents and tell them to sign it. Parents are often scared to say no.
I have helped put a couple of them in Jail, but sadly most get away with it.
Thanks all for your input, some interesting reading,
So, just to mix things up a bit, it turns out that in 2007 they both did an Enduring Power of Attorney (which are no longer a thing for new applications), via a solicitor, I'm pretty sure the were getting wills sorted at the same time as it's about the time my dad retired. Anyway, they nominate me and each other as attorneys on their respective ones. I signed it at the time, and in all honesty had forgotten about it. They may have gone to be registered at the OPG, I don't know (I would imagine that they did, I bet the solicitor did it).
So, what's the deal with doing new LPAs, do they supersede the original EPAs, or do we need to formally revoke it?
@IHN - The enduring powers of attorney didn't need to be registered before they were used. As a consequence they were widely abused and the LPA was bought in to combat that - compulsory registration before use was thought to add an extra layer of security / deterrent.
If you did register them it was only done at the point of loss of capacity as the law at the time said that once registered the attorneys would act and the donor could no longer act for themselves. There was no provision for fluctuating levels of capacity, you either had it or you didn't. Again this is an area where LPAs are much better with clearly defined tests for capacity.
So they are most likely to be in the vault of the solicitors who wrote them. Technically they could be used, but good luck with getting a bank to understand what they are and how they should be dealt with.
Also the Enduring Power dealt with only financial matters there was no provision for decisions about Health & Welfare. So our current best advice is to just do new Lasting Powers of Attorney and forget about the old enduring ones.
As for registration, if they had ever been registered you would know about it as you would have been dealing with your parents affairs since at least October 2007 when LPAs came into force.
Hope that helps.
Brilliant, thanks
