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hilldodger - you get the micronutrients from the various shed loads of veg.
all those energy bars and drinks.
Those were taken whilst riding. That's still allowed on the iDave diet. Insulin has a different role when you are exercising.
It's the carbs whilst NOT riding that were the problem.
Personally I would be concerned about the long term exclusion of fruit from my diet, although some fruits are very high GI they also contain many micronutrients that are not found in other foodstuffs.
As usual, people jumping onto things without looking at the facts. There is no long term exclusion of any food. You can eat what you want 1 day a week.. if that means 14 bananas, 12 oranges, 49 galaxy bars then so be it
(idave™ disciple)
I think vegetables are on the whole more nutritious than fruit..
Vegetables are not [i]more[/i] or [i]less[/i] nutritious than fruit, there are micronutrients that are exclusive to either class.
Like what?
perhaps, it's just my opinion - but I'm not happy eliminating a whole food group from my diet.hilldodger - you get the micronutrients from the various shed loads of veg
There is no long term exclusion of any food. You can eat what you want 1 day a week.. if that means 14 bananas, 12 oranges, 49 galaxy bars then so be it
Exactly why the 'day off' is a bad idea if it results in binge eating - I'm sure your 'leader' woudn't suggest that the 'day off' is for 14 bananas, 12 oranges, 49 galaxy bars.
I'm not in any way 'knocking' iDave, his ideas are good but looks like they may be being misinterpreted by some zealots.....
read the 4 hour body book. It explains the science behind it in there
yes, you can eat whatever you want on your day off.. no really
I think you are meant to binge (albeit healthily) on the day off aren't you?
molgrips - Member
Like what?
sorry, missed that -
Most obvious would be fruit enzymes such as papain and bromelain, can't think of a veggie source for those
Also think fruits are far higher in anthocyanins, pectins, monoterpenes, and some minerals (manganese/selenium/copper ??)
Also as fruits are more often eaten raw, the nutrient levels are maintained - I know you can eat vegetables raw, but no way am I opting for 200 g of raw root veg or leafy greens over a small bowl of mixed berries and stone fruits just to 'get my dose'.
Anyway, I'm more than happy to learn from others wisdom but must admit to being in the 'old fasioned' camp of a 'balanced' diet comprised of seasonal local foods wherever possible and no exclusion/over representations of any food group.
But hey, I've never needed to lose weight so am not speaking from experience when it comes to fat reduction and good luck to anyone who's trying to become more healthy - just make sure you know what 'healthy' is before you strive for it 😉
Is there any evidence that deficiency in papain and bromelain is a problem? my guess is the Inuit don't see much fresh fruit in their diets?
And again, one day a week eat what you want, including fruit.
Inuit don't see much fresh fruit in their diets?
And a lot of them are quite chubby.
is there anything to stop people having one of those multi-vitamin tablets each day on the idave diet? 😀
I've never needed to lose weight so am not speaking from experience when it comes to fat reduction
Well thanks for acknowledging this.. lots of people who are congenitally thin thing that anyone who struggles must be stuffing their face with pizza in front of the TV each evening...
Inuit are a special case aren't they? I thought they'd adapted to their diet in unique ways. They eat hardly any fibre for instance, and I assume they still poo.
Is there any evidence that deficiency in papain and bromelain is a problem?
not [i]per se[/i] but they are often given as supplements to people suffering with digestive problems so seem to have functional significance
nor vegetablesmy guess is the Inuit don't see much fresh fruit in their diets?
iDave... why do you bother? You have far more patients than I do!
Personally I could never give up fruit, and I also find that if I start the day with fruit it seems to curb hunger pains for the rest of the day, although I do eat pretty steadily all day long 🙂
lots of people who are congenitally thin thing that anyone who struggles must be stuffing their face with pizza in front of the TV each evening
I'm not congenitally thin, just raised proper 😉
It may be relevant to point out that a fat kid will always struggle to be a thin adult, that lifestyle not genetics.
The number of fat cells you have is determined in your pre adolescent years, dieting may reduce the quantity of fat each cell holds but will never reduce the number of actual cells.
my guess is the Inuit don't see much fresh fruit in their diets?nor vegetables
indeed. but their obesity rates are soaring due to adopting high carb western diets and lower activity levels
molgrips, I was under the impression you ate /drank them most of the time anyway but I guess not... less cakes and sweet stuff mid afternoon then whilst sat in front of the PC 😉
Kev
I was raised well, which is probably why I'm only a few kg over racing whippet weight, rather than a blob.
Sitting in front of the PC was a major issue for me - when I started work I kept buying snacks and compulsively eating them.. veery difficult to deal with that one.
Let's face it - our enemy in the modern world is mostly BOREDOM!
indeed. but their obesity rates are soaring due to adopting high carb western diets and lower activity levels
I assume you mean high GI carbs, as I thought your plan was not carb restricted ?
Anyway, I'm not arguing with your basic strategy, it's well proven under different labels - eat complex carbs, plenty of high grade protein and cut out maufactured/processed foods - common sense really but many people do seem to need reminding of this, so well done for raising this topic to such high profile 😀
MMmmmmmmmm - berry fruits, welsh cakes and yogurt for lunch soon 8)
yes I mean simple processed carbs... of the type pumped into junk food
It's a bit more than just healthy eating tho hilldodger. I'd have thought milk, rice, potatoes and fruit were all ok for healthy eating but they affect your body in a way that might not be best for weight loss.
Re Inuit again, I think that most indigenous Americans have more trouble than us westerners eating junk food. Been lots of discussion about it using places like Mexico as examples.
I'd have thought milk, rice, potatoes and fruit were all ok for healthy eating.
They are arent they? just not to much of them.
They are, but they make you produce insulin that has certain effects that I personally want to avoid.
Let's face it, losing weight from fairly normal to fairly skinny is not a natural thing for my body to want to do. So I am having to manipulate my body to get what I want.
Let's get this straight - I am not talking about healthy eating, I am talking about going from healthy 90kg to healthy 78kg to make myself faster on the bike.
[i]Let's face it - our enemy in the modern world is mostly BOREDOM! [/i]
very true indeed. I find I eat less when I'm active and busy, sitting around in front of a PC makes me crave food which I know I don't need, so I don't give in to it, just ignore it - soon as I get on my bike to ride home then get in and start doing things, funnily enough I'm not hungry anymore 'till feeding time later in the evening.
I've travelled a fair bit of Central America and their diet is riddled with sugar. Local guides advise not to give the kids sweets they crave because of the lack of available dental treatment.
Kev
Paradoxically, If I didn't control myself I'd eat loads more sat in front of a PC at work than if I was say walking in the mountains all day.
mol, whats your exercise like? When i was able to run a fairly high mileage each week, i lost 4 kgs without trying/cutting back on anything (whereas for cycling i seem to naturally be slightly heavier) If you struggle with the idave diet, it might be worth looking at ways you can just run a calorie defecit and train harder/smarter/more? Just a thought 🙂
Molgrips... when are you posting the 'before' pic?
Edit - Yep follow the Dirty one's advice... try swimming 😉
I suspect Molgrips is being well trained 😉
Don't listen to yeti about the swimming, he just wants to see a photo of you in your speedos! 😉
DGOAB - it varies, but it's usually structured training. So 10 hours ish base riding in the winter then mixed intervals/threshold stuff in the summer, with races, normal and base rides thrown in. Bit of running too, once a week.
Like I say I did lose weight by keeping a calorie deficit whilst base training but it took a hell of a lot of time and effort. And I simply could not keep up a calorie deficit whilst doing speed training.
iDave is way easier to do in some ways since your body's red alert I must eat system is not activated. It's about manipulating your body's systems. It also seems to be working much more quickly than previous efforts.
I took the before pic last week after one week on the diet. I'll give it a few more weeks then post before and after 🙂
EDIT - swimming is on the cards yes. I have swum before, didn't make any difference to my weight but I was just trying to do lengths which was a bit pointless from a training point of view I think. I need to get some strength into my swimming muscles and start cutting the water like a shark yeah baby
oooh... how about a forum members A&A swimsuit edition?
In the photo I took, I am wearing lycra cycling shorts rather than speedos. I felt it more appropriate.
molgrips... swimming will probably make you gain weight.
DGOAB - it varies, but it's usually structured training. So 10 hours ish base riding in the winter then mixed intervals/threshold stuff in the summer, with races, normal and base rides thrown in. Bit of running too, once a week.
I've done some base training over the winter (never more than 1hr at a time). I had a fitness test done before i started training where i was burning 42% of fat at my aerobic base point
(The highest heart rate where fat is the predominant fuel). Which i'm told was pretty inefficient (i.e i had a crap base)
I had another test last week and that's now gone up to 83%.. so i've become more efficient at burning fat as a result.
I was told this is also because of following the diet... my body has adapted better
I've gone from 75kg in December to 70kg now.
nice one TD
Cheers idave. 😀
The guy who took the test also agreed with you about carb loading being absolute rubbish
So on the GI trip.....
Carrots (allowed vegetable) GI 70 Vs Apple (banned fruit) GI 40
Parsnip GI 98 Vs Cherries GI 24
Sweet corn GI 55 Vs Strawberries GI 40
so if it's not about GI what is it about ????
it's more than simply GI alone. Something can be low GI, ie milk, but still cause an insulin spike. Fructose, the fruit sugar, illicits a different insulin response than other sugars.
iDave - YGM
But also... should I, personally, try and cut down on fruit? What benefits would it have? Currently eat >5 pieces of fruit a day.
I've done some base training over the winter (never more than 1hr at a time)
1hr is pretty short for a base ride isn't it? You must feel pretty un-worked out after that? But well done anyway - it really makes a difference to have good base. Are you taking carbs before/during/after riding?
I had terrible base when I started, so much so that my blood lactate test had NO flat section before lactate concentration went up. Tester had never seen anyone's graph like that. In other words I was always producing lactate greater than rest levels at any intensity.
TSY - I think that the more you reduce the insulin producing things the more benefit you'll get.. so try cutting down rather than eliminating.
As for benefits - are you fat? 🙂
1hr is pretty short for a base ride isn't it? You must feel pretty un-worked out after that? But well done anyway - it really makes a difference to have good base. Are you taking carbs before/during/after riding?
This is what I thought but a lot of it was on rollers or gym bike where my heart rate was always in zone 2.. if you were out on the road this is much harder to achieve.
i've been told that when a lot of cyclists start racing they then neglect the base and prefer to do intervals all the time.. they gradually get more inefficent and lose the base. Very important to do base level rides in between racing
I eat a lot of berries, thought they were a "super food". Should I reduce my intake? Don't have cream with them though!
1hr is pretty short for a base ride isn't it?
depends on what the base is for - ie who the rider is
for new cyclists hours on the bike are important to develop efficiency - which is just one aspect of performance
You must feel pretty un-worked out after that?
actually.. i always felt like i'd worked. base rides of an hour were never really easy (obviosuyl easier than intervals) but it's not a pootle in the park
a lot of people think base is very slow and steady.. I'd say it's more controlled than that (then again i always made sure it was in the upper level of zone 2)