[Closed] Police Kettling Cyclists outside Olympic Opening

"because it is now seen to be at best a campaign organisation, and at worst a protest organisation. it may not be, but that's how the public see it (now)."

Do you know this to be fact? I know people who have opposing views re Critical Mass, but I can't say I've noticed a universal anti CM sentiment. And I'm sure that if CM did indeed cause as much inconvenience for others as is being suggested here, then appropriate steps would be taken by the police to prevent such hindrance to all other road users. Don't forget, that regardless of numbers, all CM riders have every legal right to be on the same roads as any motor vehicle. There is power in numbers. You may be able to whizz past one cyclist, but you simply have to accept that you cannot do so if there are several hundred. You are obliged to drive in consideration of the safety of other road users.

As for blocking junctions; on every CM ride I've been on, police often usher the whole CM group through red lights, as it then speeds up their progress through a junction. Drivers are seldom delayed for more than a few minutes. Police like to keep the whole group moving, as it causes less congestion this way. Simply common sense.

"You seem to be ignoring what is actually going on at the moment in London as well, or did you see that as a further way of provoking conflict in an already stretched transport system?"

Why do you see this as anyone 'provoking conflict'? Aren't motorists therefore 'provoking conflict' by driving in London at this current time, then? Should we all simply stay off all roads?

I used to cringe while watching Critical Mass conducting their mass, wholesale bell-endery every Friday evening in Manchester.

Lets endear cycling to the general populace by making them all late home from work on a Friday evening. That's bound to make them all think of us fondly. Absolute bunch of nobs, basically. IMHO of course. And it actually makes me angry that they've somehow elected themselves as 'representative'. From what I can see, they're about as representative of myself and most cyclists as Jeremy bloody Clarkson.

Thanks mikeconnor for his 'justification' for CM though. Comedy Gold! It was satire, right?

I'm sure that anyone who cycles in London or any large city, has been sworn at, had drivers cut them up, and generally been made to feel they are unwelcome on the roads they have every right to travel along. What are your experiences of this? How safe do you feel? Do you think it's right that drivers act in such an antagonistic and potentially dangerous manner?

"Mike, stop calling people "ignorant", it does you no favours."

I am merely responding to those who have stated they have no personal experience of a CM ride, and are speaking of that which they have little or no knowledge of. I think I am justified in stating a fact.

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved, as I don't think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way, towards a reasonable solution for all. I would like to hear others' views on how cyclists can raise awareness and enhance the image of urban cycling.

Binners, + many.....

"There's no such thing as bad publicity"

Well, I'm afraid there is, and Critical Mass are a case in point.

Just out of interest, what are people's views on the London to Brighton Rally vs a Critical Mass ride?

To me it seems like both would cause a similar amount of disruption although the car rally takes place on a Sunday.

I'd like to thank Mikeconnor for coming on this thread to give his opinions and experience of CM rides, I've found the whole thread very interesting. However, pointing out that if one group of road users blocks a junction then if another group does the same it somehow is ok isn't great.

I agree with many of CM's principles but as many of the above posters point out, CM don't really help themselves, especially with Friday's ride. There was also a protest planned by a Muslim group on Friday, they were requested by the police not to protest so they cancelled. If their protest had gone ahead then the result could have been a lot of negative publicity for that group and maybe they understood this and that helped them to make the decision to cancel.

If CM want more and more people to get behind them, especially non-cyclists then they need to get people on their side and Fridays ride had the opposite effect IMO.

Chanting en masse '**** the police' and 'F** the olympics' isn't celibrating cycling.

I'm massivly pro critical mass for all the reasons mikeconnor details. temprementally and professionaly i am prone to question and challenge police conduct .
That Blackfriers incident shows one pc supported by a medic detain someone using if anything too little force. It appears that other cyclists then try to help the prisoner escape and assault both officers. given that the officers are surrounded by an at best indifereent at worst antagonistic crowd they show restraint and courage, hats off to the two passers by who help the officers.

I'm really interested to hear the details of the Kettling story but the videos of the "disabled man being assaulted by the police" do nothing but cast CM in a very bad light.

"Angry mob gives lone policeman a good shoeing" doesn't sell as many newspapers, presumably.

Crankboy,
Couple of articles on the guardian site.
Shows things in a slightly different light to the opinions of most on here.

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved

do the opposite of what you do know, which just gives free ammunition to people with anti-cycling views. you need to show that cyclists can live amongst taxis, buses, vans, cars, scooters and motorbikes - not just expect to be accepted 'en masse'.

I'm sure that anyone who cycles in London or any large city, has been sworn at, had drivers cut them up, and generally been made to feel they are unwelcome on the roads they have every right to travel along.

Not once in two years of commuting.

I did get called a "tit" by an angry roadie once because I jumped a red light in Surrey on the way home, with no traffic on the green-lit junction, though... 😕

I am interested to hear what ways an event like CM could be improved

Knock it on the head, once and for all.

I used to watch the procession of misguided stupidity trundle past every Friday. Normally while sat outside, having a post work beer. I won't list the terms of abuse directed in their general direction from people sat outside, but I never heard anything supportive or complimentary

But here's the thing: I cycle an awful lot of miles. And have done for many many years. Commuting on the road, off road, in the city, in the sticks, all over. And a lot of off-road recreational miles. And I recognise my own type

And I can tell you one thing. Take more than a casual glance at the CM gimps that you see on the average Friday evening ride, and their bikes, and one thing strikes me. They're all wearing jeans for a start! And mostly riding BSO's. None of them look like they do many miles to me.

I don't think this discussion is really moving forward in a positive way

Trial by Youtube has massively back fired imho.

They're all wearing jeans for a start!

Sorry, I didn't realise that I was supposed to be ashamed.

EDIT: Does no one think it's counter productive to only allow people who dress like 'cyclists' and ride bikes costing more than £500 to be called cyclists. Can't we just include anyone who rides a bike?

t's interesting also that some of you find CM 'antagonistic', when that is not actually the intention. If a large group of cyclists blocks a junction as they travel through it, how is that different to other road vehicles doing the same?

As I said Earlier, what I saw on Friday were a large group of people on bikes, deliberately stopping in the middle of junctions (not travelling through it)
This was done purely to cause problems for other people.

Also massive groups jumping red lights (not being brought through a red light by traffic police) and then stopping in the middle of the junction and milling around to cause obstruction.

That's why I see them as antagonistic bell ends.

Purely because that how they were acting.

Pretty simple really.

why not join in with the next CM ride, where you will then have an opportunity to express your own views, and be able to meet and share ideas with others? If you feel that CM could be improved, why not get involved and do your bit to enhance the image of cycling?

What about the numbers of motor vehicles moving very slowly at rush hour, holding up and inconveniencing cyclists, who could travel much more quickly if it weren't for cars lorries and vans blocking their way?

they must also be annoyed at the myriad other problems they encounter on their journeys, such as roadworks, other traffic, buses etc

because it is now seen to be at best a campaign organisation, and at worst a protest organisation. it may not be, but that's how the public see it (now)."
Do you know this to be fact?

then appropriate steps would be taken by the police to prevent such hindrance to all other road users

had drivers cut them up, and generally been made to feel they are unwelcome on the roads they have every right to travel along. What are your experiences of this? How safe do you feel? Do you think it's right that drivers act in such an antagonistic and potentially dangerous manner?

I agree with many of CM's principles but as many of the above posters point out, CM don't really help themselves, especially with Friday's ride.

THIS basically
It needs to be improved for the average cyclists....I don’t think this helps at all in fact i think it makes things worse.

My point BruceWee isn't about clothing. Its about proportionality. I ride loads of miles. I love it! As a form of transport and as my main recreational interest. Do I feel like I'm hard done by? Not really. The need to protest every week by annoying people? Not one little bit

But I look at those idiots and I don't see a bunch of fanatical cyclists, doing it for the love of it, or to further the cause. I see a bunch of tools who see an opportunity to be a general PITA, and behave like a bunch of adolescents

Do I feel like I'm hard done by? Not really.

Well that's good but a brief scan of this forum will show that there are plenty out there who do feel hard done by.

I just don't think it's constructive to reinforce the view that there are those of us who look the part, have the right clothes, the right bikes and therefore [i]we[/i] are the [i]cyclists[/i] whereas the others are merely people riding bikes and not part of our clique.

Maybe they do wear jeans and ride to the shops on a BSO instead of doing hundreds of miles per week but they still have the right to feel concerned about their safety on the road and try to raise awareness for that in the way they feel is best.

and try to raise awareness for that in the way they feel is best.

Seriously? In that case, I'll tell you what. I really like cats. And I reckon some people should like cats more than they do, and be nicer to them generally.

So I'm going to start a campaign on behalf of all cat lovers. We're going to convince everyone who isn't fond of them, to love them by... oh I don't know... what will make people love them and appreciate how nice and cuddly and lovely they are? I know..... by filling their houses full of kittens!!!

Do you reckon I'll receive the eternal thanks of the cats protection league for my political statement? I've thought it through and its 'raising awareness for that in the way I feel is best'

I just don't think it's constructive to reinforce the view that there are those of us who look the part, have the right clothes, the right bikes and therefore we are the cyclists whereas the others are merely people riding bikes and not part of our clique.

Cycling should be inclusive irrespective of gear and bike. Just look at the Sky Rides.

But it seems logical to expect that people who are passionate enough about a subject to join what is arguably a protest group about it would have an interest in that subject above and beyond what would be expected of 'casual' participants. No?

I appreciate that some people will be on BSOs and regular streetwear due to financial constraints (ie, they can't afford anything else). But even then, a 'regular' cyclist will have made some more considered choices, even if it's just combats or shorts rather than jeans.

I think the key difference between CM and your example is that breaking into people's houses and filling them with kittens is illegal (I think)

What about if we stuffed them through their letterboxes?

Not if I post them down the chimney, therefore technically not breaking in

Raining cats again? Pah, summer's over.

"As I said Earlier, what I saw on Friday were a large group of people on bikes, deliberately stopping in the middle of junctions (not travelling through it)
This was done purely to cause problems for other people.

Also massive groups jumping red lights (not being brought through a red light by traffic police) and then stopping in the middle of the junction and milling around to cause obstruction."

I agree that such behaviour is not conducive to the smooth flow of all traffic, and may very well be seen as antagonistic, and in some cases it may well be intended as such. On CM rides I've been on, this has happened, and it is not idea, however when you have a large mass of cyclists who wish to remain together as a group, this is an unfortunate occurrence. Rarely do such incidents cause more than a few minutes delay for other road users.

i think one of the main issues is that Cm does cause 'problems' in a large and extremely congested city such as London. CM rides in other cities globally have different effects on traffic flow, but this is more down to how cities are planned in terms of road infrastructure than the fault of the riders. A single vehicle breakdown somewhere on a busy main traffic artery causes far more congestion than CM does. Having been in a car that's been held up temporarily by a CM ride, I can see how drivers can be frustrated, but driving in a city such as London, you must accept that delays are inevitable. Perhaps if more information was given about CM rides, drivers could make more informed choices about their journeys. The unorganised nature of CM does little to cater for this however, but if drivers were aware delays in central London are likely on the last Friday of the month, then they have the opportunity to adjust their plans accordingly. I don't see why a group of people who choose to ride their bikes in the city should give up something they enjoy, simply because it might inconvenience a relatively small number of other people.

It's clear that there is an ideological dislike of CM and it's riders, by quite a few on here. Having read some of the threads on here, it's also apparent that some people will find cause for annoyance in many things, even the smallest issues, so perhaps not all those expressing opinions on this thread are particularly objective and open minded.

I think the consensus on here at least is that CM has a poor public image. And in some cases, for good reason. It's the negative aspects that should be addressed, to ensure a better solution is found. CM will continue regardless until such time such activities are outlawed at least, so better to seek positive solutions than continue with needless hostility, surely?

"what like arresting folk? that went well eh"

People were not arrested for causing any genuine obstruction or threat. This should be made clear. They were arrested and detained because the police deemed it necessary, without apparent good reason. So far, no police statement that I'm aware of has given justifiable cause for the arrest and detention of so many people simply for riding bikes along a public highway. I think we should be more concerned with the possible breaches of human rights, in a so-called democracy, than with any problems caused to traffic flow.

So far I've not seen anyone come up with any ideas of how to promote cycling in our cities, more effectively. Just a lot of moaning and prejudice. Maybe it would be more productive to seek solutions, than continue to be negative.

But it seems logical to expect that people who are passionate enough about a subject to join what is arguably a protest group about it would have an interest in that subject above and beyond what would be expected of 'casual' participants. No?

Not if all they want to do is ride to the shops in peace. Maybe they're not interested in identifying themselves as a cyclist by the STW definition. They maybe just live too far from work to walk and don't like busses.

BTW, I wear jeans while riding probably more than anything else. I commute about 20km each day in them and do various other errands during the week in them.

You commute 20k a day in jeans? Are you a masochist? 😯

Yeah, I just ride slow so as not to sweat. I used to bring a change of clothes and have a shower at work but I found with all the faff I wasn't really saving much time.

I just try to relax and enjoy the ride 🙂

Having been in a car that's been held up temporarily by a CM ride, I can see how drivers can be frustrated, but driving in a city such as London, you must accept that delays are inevitable.

Dear god! Whats going on in your head? There's nowt 'inevitable' about being held up by some bunch of jokers whose primary aim seems to be to stick two fingers up at the police. Any more than if I decide to park a cow in the middle of a busy junction. Its idiocy. Pure and simple.

At least that's how its interpreted by everyone else other than your-good-self and the other 371 'activists' in the country who are so misguided that they believe that you can win support by annoying people 🙄

[i]I agree that such behaviour is not conducive to the smooth flow of all traffic, and may very well be seen as antagonistic, and in some cases it may well be intended as such.[/i]

So there are deliberate attempts to be antagonistic?

[i]i think one of the main issues is that Cm does cause 'problems' in a large and extremely congested city such as London. CM rides in other cities globally have different effects on traffic flow, but this is more down to how cities are planned in terms of road infrastructure than the fault of the riders[/i]

So large groups of cyclists who set out to protest are not at fault, it's that pesky history, presumably we should be blaming the Romans?

[i]Having been in a car that's been held up temporarily by a CM ride, I can see how drivers can be frustrated, but driving in a city such as London, you must accept that delays are inevitable.[/i]

Certainly on a Friday, when the assorted rent-a-mob turn up to 'antagonise'.

[i]I don't see why a group of people who choose to ride their bikes in the city should give up something they enjoy, simply because it might inconvenience a relatively small number of other people[/i]

Oh, right, it's a social event then, for 'enjoyment'... give over.

[i]so perhaps not all those expressing opinions on this thread are particularly objective and open minded.[/i]

You are being told what people think. If that doesn't agree with your point of view, calling them not objective or closed minded makes you seem a bit simple.

[i]So far I've not seen anyone come up with any ideas of how to promote cycling in our cities, more effectively. Just a lot of moaning and prejudice. Maybe it would be more productive to seek solutions, than continue to be negative.[/i]

What, you mean negative like the protest that occurs every last Friday, that most normal everyday cyclists see as a load of unwashed fools upsetting the rest of the city?

Crtical Mass appeals to the people who it appeals to, the rest of us look on in disgust at people using a mode of transport as a way to get attention by annoying other people.

But it seems logical to expect that people who are passionate enough about a subject to join what is arguably a protest group about it would have an interest in that subject above and beyond what would be expected of 'casual' participants. No?

I agree they should take an interest in the subject, but it doesn't follow that it should be reflected in their dress or choice of bike. What if their interest is in promoting cycling as a normal form of transport which doesn't require special effort, e.g. as in Oxford or Cambridge where a "considered choice" might be whether to put on a jacket, or attempt to cycle with an open umbrella in the rain.

They were arrested and detained because the police deemed it necessary, without apparent good reason

So far I've not seen anyone come up with any ideas of how to promote cycling in our cities

There are plenty of other threads, including one just the other day, about what can be done to improve roads and cycle paths/lanes and other infrastructure, for ALL users. Why should we start discussing that here?

I asked this earlier on but what is the difference between a CM ride and a car or motorbike rally? They all cause disruption but it seems that people take the view that bicycle is not to be enjoyed on the road whereas it's acceptable in a car or on a motorbike.

I stand up to be counted every time I go out on my bike, every time I commute on it, every time I use it for exercise, every time I use it for transport.

I don't set off on a Friday night to deliberately get in other road users way to prove that I can.

CM is counter-productive because it annoys other road users and does us no favours at all.

Why not join in? Because I don't agree that pissing people off is a good way to protest.

Well put. CM in practice seems to be about 'them and us' and creating divisiveness. I don't think that's the way forward at all.

Junkyard - Member
What drac said.

Nice the guy stepped into to help the female copper so they were not all bad

Plain clothes plod IMO. Solely from his Home Office approved "get back" and fighting stance

I asked this earlier on but what is the difference between a CM ride and a car or motorbike rally?

Well, for a start, the car rally above was *organised* - there is a known route, disruption caused can be planned for, known contacts, marshalls, things like that that make everything run smoothly.

I'll point out again, that there is a [u]known route that is agreed in advance with the relevant authorities[/u] - this alone serves to minimise disruption and sets it apart from CM rides.

They all cause disruption but it seems that people take the view that bicycle is not to be enjoyed on the road whereas it's acceptable in a car or on a motorbike.

There are hundreds of organised cycling events up and down the country, on an almost daily basis, from races to sportives to mass charity rides like the london to brighton, that are all able to work [u]with[/u] the police and authorities to celebrate cycling, where we see the police bend over backwards to make the events safe and minimise disruption, and give people a great day out enjoying cycling on the road!

why should CM be any different?

Why, when asked politley by police to stay away from the Olympic routes, did they feel the need to ignore this, go North of the river and subsequently act like a bunch of total penises - they could have quite happily gone out and celebrated cycling and enjoyed riding their bikes without causing trouble for anyone, instead they chose to delibaretley create a confrontation and spoil it for everyone

bunch of cocks!

when you have a large mass of cyclists who wish to remain together as a group

Why, out of interest? What are you gaining? Genuine question, I'm not being argumentative here.

I'd have thought that once you get much beyond, what, half a dozen riders say, it becomes less of a social experience and more of an exercise in generating as many participants as possible. Given that you call yourselves "critical mass" I'd presume this is entirely the prime intention. No? So if you're not an activist group going out of your way to cause disruption and genuinely are just out for a fun ride, why is your primary raison d'etre sheer weight of numbers?

Why, with the entire country to go at, did CM London have to choose the one place to ride that they'd been asked no to go, if not to intentionally show defiance?

Roads get closed for events all the time. It's not an infringement of human rights, it's just an exceptional circumstance. I walked several miles at the weekend to get round Box Hill because all the surrounding roads were shut to facilitate the Olympic cycling road race. How far do you reckon I'd have got if I'd tried to take my car through the road block, along with a hundred of my closest friends, because we "always drive there"?

I wonder, idly, what CM's actions would have been if historically they'd always ridden round Box Hill on Saturdays.

On a related subject, whatever happened to "reclaim the streets"? Or is the CockMonkey ride a sort of leftover of that "movement"?

It's clear that there is an ideological dislike of CM and it's riders, by quite a few on here

Not so much an ideological dislike i simply think their methods are counter productive...ideologically I tend to agree/sympathise.

People were not arrested for causing any genuine obstruction or threat. This should be made clear.

They were arrested and detained because the police deemed it necessary, without apparent good reason. So far, no police statement that I'm aware of has given justifiable cause for the arrest and detention of so many people simply for riding bikes along a public highway. I think we should be more concerned with the possible breaches of human rights, in a so-called democracy, than with any problems caused to traffic flow.

they were told why the protest was not allowed - you are free to agree or disagree [ I disagree with the reasons given- but you cannot say that no reason was given]. It was either a protest or people pootling along ..it would be stretching the point to breaking to claim it was just some mates riding together for fun with no message to deliver. Ergo, in the broadest sense, it is a protest.

Why, when asked politley by police to stay away from the Olympic routes, did they feel the need to ignore this, go North of the river and subsequently act like a bunch of total penises - they could have quite happily gone out and celebrated cycling and enjoyed riding their bikes without causing trouble for anyone, instead they chose to delibaretley create a confrontation and spoil it for everyone

You may wish to consider your responsibilities to others whilst banging on about your rights as the two are intrinsically interlinked in a society.

IME of participating in direct action the people are very aware of their own rights and have little to no regard of others rights or their own responsibilities. I stopped getting involved as I felt , very very saddly, that Da Babylon had a point.

however when you have a large mass of cyclists who wish to remain together as a group, this is an unfortunate occurrence. Rarely do such incidents cause more than a few minutes delay for other road users.

Mikeconnor, I'm not sure you have actually been reading what I wrote.

They were riding through the red lights for the sole purpose of holding up traffic, not to stay together as a group.

They were milling around, riding round in circles, in the middle of busy junctions, purely to cause disruption.

They were stopping in large groups on crossroads regardless of the traffic lights, purely to stop traffic from moving.

I presume you were not there on Friday in London. And as such are speaking about what happened from a position of ignorance ??

"Dear god! Whats going on in your head? There's nowt 'inevitable' about being held up by some bunch of jokers whose primary aim seems to be to stick two fingers up at the police."

It's quite clear you have little or no understanding of CM rides, as the 'primary objective' is not to do as you say. And I think you're misunderstanding me; I was talking about the inevitability of delays if you regularly commute in a city the size of london. i wasn't just referring to times when CM is happening. Believe me, being stuck in a tailback following a breakdown somewhere like the Blackwall tunnel is far, far more frustrating than having to wait a few minutes whilst a group of cyclist clear a junction. And events like that are a lot more frequent than CM.

You and others seem to be hung up on the appearance of CM riders. Strange, because my experience is that the riders are not on homogenous group, quite the opposite. To pour scorn on someone simply because of your perception based on their appearance, is very prejudicial, and says more about your judgemental nature than it does about them, and somewhat diminishes the value of your opinion.

The videos they post tend to make them look REALLY bad...and given that those are the ones that they've posted/edited in order to try and make themselves look good you sort-of lose sympathy.

The 'police assault' one from the other day was particularly laughable.

Standard tactic seems to be massively antagonise everyone to court police attention, police turn up, jostle the police until they attempt to arrest you, jostle them some more along with dozens of your mates, then start wailing about police assault and civil rights violations. All the while a crowd of sycophants film the entire thing in shakeycam before heavily editing the footage and sticking it on their utterly unreadable blogs.

It's a shame, because I support some of the broad objectives of CM, but their methods turn near enough everyone against them.

It's quite clear you have little or no understanding of CM rides, as the 'primary objective' is not to do as you say.

What is the primary objective?