You know the ones. Police set up a little checkpoint and pull in cars at a bus stop or layby.
There was one on the main road round the corner from me this morning.
I've always wondered how these things stand legally. Do the Police not need a specific reason to pull people over?
Are they using some sort of legal loophole? Or is there some subtle selection process going on that means its not a "random" check?
They set them up at the bottom of the dual carriageway from Man U - and its always very VERY busy.
It might be a trick like the metal detectors they were (are) setting up at stations and the like. The trick was that they were totally voluntary, but refusing was grounds for reasonable suspicion and therefore making a non-voluntary search legal.
It was totally accidental that the majority of people "voluntarily" invited to go through the detectors were guilty of being black in a public place.
I'd rather they did it more often to actually hands on catch people with dodgey tyres etc.
I think there has to be "cause", which can be "it looked ropey/dirty/on the phone/looked like a wanted crim" etc.
After that "attitude test".
Third post and accusations of institutional racism. Not a record but quick.
It was totally accidental that the majority of people "voluntarily" invited to go through the detectors were guilty of being black in a public place.
Source for this?
Got breathalised by one a while back.
Apparently you can refuse to answer the questions as there's no reason for you being stopped.
I didn't and was honest. Still blew a big old 0 after two glasses of red the night before which was reassuring.
timbur, that's the attitude test.
I think you can refuse to go in. I certainly did once, just over took a line of trafic waiting to go in once and then lo and behold I got stopped down the road by PlodOnABike.
He asked me why I didn't follow the queue into the layby and I said I wasn't instructed to and that I didn't see the point of being stopped when I've done nothing wrong.
We had a little chat, he let me on my way with the caveat "if you are instructed to stop or pull over you should do"
I once again stated I wasn't and he tutted and I drove off.
That was 3'ish years ago now.
Do you know it was random? might have been enforcing the law from some mobile camera/spotter further down the road ie people on phones, people not wearing seatbelts, people speeding, no tax/ins, all four.
There's regularly a DVLC mobile camera and a few police cars/bikes on my
local dual carriageway.
How so?
What if I had refused?
Be helpful, give them what they want rather than what?
As soon as I said I'd had a drink the night before they had grounds to breathalize me if I understand correctly??
I know it was random. One in, one out policy and I came to it from a side road after only driving a few hundred yards from my house to the main road.
Or is there some subtle selection process going on that means its not a "random" check?
ANPR just up the road? Sometimes with a couple of unmarked cars spotting people doing random u-turns after seeing people the other way flashing headlights.
I got pulled in at a 'checkpoint' by a police officer last year. Busy main road heading into town, 11am. Lane 1 of a busy dual carriageway was coned off for about 100metres to facilitate said checkpoint, causing major holdups...
Approached by a lady, hi-viz jacket on, clipboard in hand. Turns out that a 'traffic survey' was being carried out, said lady wasn't a police officer, the police were only there to pull motorists over.
Very miffed at having my journey delayed, I asked her if I was legally required to answer her questions, 'No' was her reply. So I wished her a pleasant day & drove off*
*( Immediately driving off wouldn't have been possible if there had been another car in front of me )
There are normally 1 or 2 Police on bikes further up.
http://www.drinkdriving.org/police_breath_alcohol_test_preliminary.php
There you go. If you refuse then it's "atitude" and therefore they can claim that they suspect your over the limit and therefore legally test you.
Tim
The police hve the power to stop any vehicle. No reason required. As per RTA 1988 S163. Once stopped though they need a reason to breath test a driver. The possible reasons include being involved in an accident, suspecting alcohol in blood, or committing a moving traffic offence.
As soon as I said I'd ha d adrink the night before they had grounds to breathalize me if I understand correctly??
Yes.
The police checkpoint at Tarbet really confuses me.
They block off the road every few weeks (we usually pass on a Friday at 6-7pm).
There's about 4 police cars and a couple of vans, with two coppers stood in the road.
They have never even looked at us as we pass, yet there's always someone having their car seached at the wee car park on the left.
Are they checking plates further down (there's normally a traffic cop car approaching the checkpoint) and then stopping targeted vehicles?
Of those Traffic Surveys I've stopped at them. I once said I refuse to answer and off I drove, was on my way to an important business meeting, the others (fairly often my way on the coast) if I'm in no hurry then I answer them.
What I think is quite odd are all the folks sitting in cars and chairs in hiviz with clipboards.. don't know what they are except a guess as to some survey count or something like that, you know counting number of folks in a car or type of vehicle..
The police have the power to stop any vehicle. No reason required.
See there you go, I didn't know that
Anyway I'm glad they didn't stop me
Checkpoints eh? Another creeping erosion of your rights that Could Never Happen Here...
Really? I've got no issue with it.
My dad got pulled into one of those a few years ago and they asked him if he had an explosives in the car. He said no, which was apparently the correct answer and that was that.
ohnohesback -
Member
Checkpoints eh? Another creeping erosion of your rights that Could Never Happen here...
Lolz! It's a conspiracy I tell you!!
Got stopped one Boxing Day. Obviously they were out to find drivers still reeking of drink. Fine by me, a half minute delay for me and the roads will be a little safer without some drunk-drivers.
Having lived in a country where random checks are the norm, I can safely say that I don't think they have any positive purpose except generating a ngeative view of plod.
Bad driving, accidents and I assume car crime was still a problem, but the revenue generated by plod was healthy even though much time was wasted in pointless checks.
I don't think you really want random checks for the police. Batter intelligence and more targetted police work, while meaning working up a sweat, would probably be more productive.
Everyone complains about coppers not doing their job,
And when they do their job, people complain. 😀
davidjones15 -
Member
Having lived in a country where random checks are the norm, I can safely say that I don't think they have any positive purpose except generating a ngeative view of plod.Bad driving, accidents and I assume car crime was still a problem, but the revenue generated by plod was healthy even though much time was wasted in pointless checks.
I don't think you really want random checks for the police. Batter intelligence and more targetted police work, while meaning working up a sweat, would probably be more productive.
Balls. Even if they just find a hand full of people with dodgy cars or 1 drunk/uninsured/disqualified driver then it's fine by me!
I'm in two minds about this, I know innocent man has nothing to fear from the law if he answers questions truthfully and isn't obstructive but it kind of suggests that if you bow and scrape to the police you'll be fine which is alsorts of wrong. Also suggests that criminals could get away with stuff by being polite and not raising suspicions.timbur, that's the attitude test.
Say someone raises suspicions, not by doing anything actually illegal but a bit dodgy or a police man just has a gut feeling:
Innocent man is in a rush is a bit huffy ends up with full check and going through details/documents with a fine tooth comb.
Crim on his way back from a "job" keeps his cool is nice and polite with coppers, cursory glance, "on your way sir"
Bet the attitude test does "catch" a lot of hothead scrotes but not so many clever criminals.
Just my cynical side at work again, pick my example apart with knowledge and actual experience if you want.
But we expect the police to do there job without it impacting on Middle England. We can't be put out you know :O)
Balls. Even if they just find a hand full of people with dodgy cars or 1 drunk/uninsured/disqualified driver then it's fine by me!
Thanks for your considered reply, now back to the Daily Mail with you.
How many interruptions would you need in your day before you start thinking that perhaps it's not the correct strategy.
To you sir, I say balls too!!! 🙄
@ Gary_C. Just don't complain if they decide against putting an extra lane in or a bypass 😉
Just an observation but... We get these spot checks all the time in London. The funny thing is they are always in the same places! Surely if they are trying to catch out the crims, they would want the element of surprise. You always see people doing the rat run down the back roads trying to get away from them. Another thing I notice is that of the people that get pulled, the great majority are non white. Racial profiling?
^^^^ probably gonna regret typing this but hey ho...
Whereabouts in London are these checks taking place where it is mainly non whites getting stopped? If it's somewhere like Brent or Southall, then it's not really surprising given the ethnic makeup of the local population.
Thanks for your considered reply, now back to the Daily Mail with you.
How many interruptions would you need in your day before you start thinking that perhaps it's not the correct strategy.
Sorry I shall raise my paper standard to the telegraph if that's ok?
1 checkpoint stop in 10years of driving, sometimes i wonder how i coped with the trauma of not moving for 2 minutes. So i would be happy for the ratio to increase from it's current 1 in 36,500
1 checkpoint stop in 10years of driving, sometimes i wonder how i coped with the trauma of not moving for 2 minutes. So i would be happy for the ratio to increase from it's current 1 in 36,500
MATHS ERROR ALERT!!!!!
🙂
The police should be able to stop you whenever they want.
The reality is there are only so many police, and it's a shrinking number, so its highly unlikely to be a regular inconvenience for people.
I think the booze-bus style check points around Christmas time are a good idea and should extended. They have proven very effective in Australia.
1 checkpoint stop in 10years of driving, sometimes i wonder how i coped with the trauma of not moving for 2 minutes. So i would be happy for the ratio to increase from it's current 1 in 36,500
My experience disagrees. How many 15 minute delays will it take before you wake up to reality? 😀
I don't understand why people get so het up at being asked to stop once in a while, in the interests of trying to catch people driving illegally etc.
I got stopped by Police at Gatwick who wanted to know what I was doing there with no bag, luggage, jacket etc. I was picking my brother up from holiday. I showed them the flight details I had written down, the asked for a few details like name & address, ran a few checks & let me on my way. What's the bother?
I don't understand why people get so het up at being asked to stop once in a while, in the interests of trying to catch people driving illegally etc.
the problem is when you are stopped multiple times in the same day/week. Once in a blue moon for two minutes isn't a problem. A 15-20 minute delay each time becomes somewhat more problematic and expensive (lost work not fines).
Be very careful what you wish for.
stumpy01 - Member
I got stopped by Police at Gatwick who wanted to know what I was doing there with no bag, luggage, jacket etc. I was picking my brother up from holiday. I showed them the flight details I had written down, the asked for a few details like name & address, ran a few checks & let me on my way. What's the bother?
Now im not usually anti police, but I would have been a bit pissed by that. You're in a public place, waiting to meet someone off a flight. Why do they need to run a check on you at all?
Seems to me that they were trying to justify their presence on a slow day.
I don't see the issue. Only been stopped by them once, 4.30am in Embra on the way back into the city from the airport. Presumably wanted to know why a young couple were out in a 14 year old Honda. One asked me questions and presumably looked for signs of drink while another checked out the car. 2 minutes and I was on my way and I've never seen another since or before. They were just doing it to catch drunks which is fine, right?
FFs some people who use this website. Dear god!
Don't know about anywhere else, but its the norm round here to routinely set up check points around Xmas time. Bascially, they pull every vehicle over and a copper sticks his head in your face and asks if you are aware of their drink drive campaign. It is toally 100% obvious that they are doing a 100% check for drink driving, and it is equally obvious that they are using the "campaign" to enable them to do so.
Is it a bad thing? Not sure personally.
The police should be able to stop you whenever they want.
What about searching your car or searching you, should they be able to do that?
How about if you extend that a bit and say 'The police should be able to come in to you house whenever they want' after all, if you have nothing to hide, why would you object?.
At what point do you say it's too much? What about when they pull on the rubber gloves and lube up for a cavity search?
biggyinn - I assumed it was because I got there early, so was hovering around for quite a while. Perhaps I didn't look like a typical 'picking someone up' person or perhaps they'd noticed me there for quite some time. As it was, my idiot brother gave me the wrong return date so I ended up leaving without him, which probably did look a bit dodgy had they still been looking out for me...
Can't help but feel that half the problem with the non-plebian Mitchell was he failed the attitude test.
Bet if he chatted to/acknlowledged the officers on duty he'd have sailed through that gate on his bike.
My experience disagrees. How many 15 minute delays will it take before you wake up to reality?
Bugger that would double my commuting time! Oh wait, I ride in so really don't give a shit 😉
Out of interest, which reality? Normal reality, or your Kaesae version where The Man is out to get you? I have lots of 15mins to give, so quite happy right now just as I was when I got pulled over (non-checkpoint) for no apparent reason last winter
Out of interest, which reality? Normal reality, or your Kaesae version where The Man is out to get you?
Where is Kaesae nowadays, is he taking and enforced rest from the forum or did the men in white coats lead him away?
Out of interest, which reality? Normal reality, or your Kaesae version where The Man is out to get you?
The reality of living in a country where the police have the power to set up checkpoints where and when they want. Feel free to rip the piss and laugh at things you are clearly ignorant of. I replied in reponse to a post which demonstrated a desire for checkpoints, the reality of this is somewhat different to the current situation in the UK.
No, but seriously, what would I know?
I reckon I've driven something like 400,000 miles in my life. I've been pulled over a couple of times as I'd done something wrong, and only once have I been pulled over for a random check. That was a Christmas / new year 'drinking campaign' which was fine as I'd only had a cup of tea all day. If this happens again once on my way to the next half million miles, I reckon I'd cope.
What they should be doing is catching my excessive speeding, reckless overtaking and red light jumping.
the reality of this is somewhat different to the current situation in the UK.
So you are happy with the situation in the UK then? In that case, in the context of just this thread, what's the problem? What hell-hole country are you talking about?
peterfile - Member
The police checkpoint at Tarbet really confuses me.
I've been stopped there, coming back from doing the Glen Loin loop. Caked in mud and bikes on the roof..
Plod "You boys been biking then?"
Moi "yep, just up the road at Arrochar"
He then gave the car a right good check over and send us on our way.
You would have thought I was a terrorist from his attitude, although to be fair I think there is a drink drive issue round that area.
Most of the checkpoints like this locally use ANPR vehicles that identify vehicles that have no tax, insurance, flag against the vehicle for drugs, drunk driver, disqualified driver etc.
There are a lot of travellers round here driving vans and flat bed transits often loaded with 'scrap metal' to the 2 nearby scrap yards. There are often operations checking the loads of unmarked vans and flat beds in the vicinity of the scrap yards.
I think they are a good idea - I drive a legal vehicle and don't drink drive so have no concern if I'm stopped. I got stopped by a police/Excise checkpoint recently checking for red diesel - again it doesn't bother me as I have nothing to worry about.
The police checkpoint at Tarbet really confuses me.They block off the road every few weeks (we usually pass on a Friday at 6-7pm).
There's about 4 police cars and a couple of vans, with two coppers stood in the road.
They have never even looked at us as we pass, yet there's always someone having their car seached at the wee car park on the left.
I've been pulled at a checkpoint further up the A83. Having a van you get used to being pulled over fairly frequently for a chat and a look in the back. On this occasion I had a charred corpse and a severed head in a box. 🙂
What was fun was driving vans in London in the late 80's / early 90's when the IRA mainland bombing was in full swing. I used to work for a fine art transport company. One day in a slow rolling traffic jam i was aware of having two police vans either side of me, when the lights changed I was suddenly surrounded by riot gear, conspicuous machine guns and dogs. In the middle of 4 lanes of traffic they had me out and opening the rear doors and before I could say "now be careful theres £4 Million quids worth national collections in there" 4 police dogs were bouncing abour all over it.
I've had a couple of those random stops in the UK and a couple in France. On every occasion I've been on my way in two minutes. Can't say it bothers me.
One "traffic cops" I found funny was the one where they pulled a private ambulance. They went to search the back and found two coffins. Out of respect for the deceased, they did not search the back.
Hello private ambulance with 2 coffins to transport the hundreds of kilos of cocaine about in 🙂
Was once pulled in to one of these while in a hire car (hence nearly new etc) by three police in the middle of nowhere near Kilsyth. No attempt made to check docs or the vehicle other than working headlights "due to bad visibility". We were both squinting against the sun. Pretty lame excuse for something going on but couldn't figure out what.
I love the attitude that says the police must obviously have our best interests at heart and should be allowed whatever powers they thing they need.
It's already been seen in this thread that despite not (I think) being able to pull people over for no reason, the police do it anyway.
Once pulled over, knowing your rights and trying to stand up for them, just means that you are more likely to end up being harassed and inconvenienced.
Do we even need to mention the UK "anti terrorism" legislation that lets them harass elderly hecklers at political conferences and arrest photographers?
I support the police, but sadly it appears that those who think the worst of them are often proven right, and that can't just be a coincidence.
Caked in mud and bikes on the roof..Plod "You boys been biking then?"
Stunning piece of police work!
37 years of driving and riding and I've been stopped twice.
Once on the way home in Edinburgh about 3am (presumably looking for drunk drivers) and once in Fort William when they stopped a crowd of us to search for stolen shotguns. We were on motorbikes 🙄
For the people who wanted data - here's some stuff about Section 60 searches:
Ministry of Justice data for 2007/08 shows that across the country, when police use their section 60 powers, they are 10.7 times more likely to stop and search black people than white people, while Asian people were 2.2 times more likely to be stopped and searched than their white counterparts.
Hello private ambulance with 2 coffins to transport the hundreds of kilos of cocaine about in
Pretty sure that was part of the plot of Bad Boys 2.
What' the big deal about being pulled over? The police in Canada set up random stops all the time, and Canadians hardly consider themselves to be oppressed.
I mean, honestly, isn't just good policing to do spot checks on vehicles from time to time?
I'm not sure what they check for when they do these. Insurance and tax maybe?
I was stopped at a "random" a couple of years back, driving an MR2 with an unsilenced exhaust and a dead turbo (I was on the way to a mechanic friend to get it fixed, but it was a fair distance - St Andrews to Stirling). There was a reasonable amount of smoke coming from the somewhat noisy exhaust as a result of the dead turbo, and I'm sure either that or the godawful noise it made could have fallen foul of any number of laws. Random check cop just asked me what was wrong with it and sent me on my way.
Eat_the_Pudding the police can stop ANYONE they want to WITHOUT any reason:
Section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, allows a constable in uniform to stop a mechanically propelled vehicle being driven, or a cycle being ridden, on a road.
163(1) A person driving a mechanically propelled vehicle on a road must stop the vehicle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform or a traffic officer.
163(2) A person riding a cycle on a road must stop the cycle on being required to do so by a constable in uniform or a traffic officer.
163(3) If a person fails to comply with this section he is guilty of an offence.
Amazing how many crazy people there are on this forum!!
So you are happy with the situation in the UK then?
I haven't said that, have I? I was just giving an alternative view based on experience.
In that case, in the context of just this thread, what's the problem?
I which case if your first assumption was wrong? 😉
Just shout "Strava run" as you weave through the cones and past the waving traffic cop - they'll understand...
DrP
I've been stopped on my bike. Apparently because I was out riding at midnight (pretty sure I had lights on) and that's a suspicious activity. Turn out pockets and check contents of my wallet. I was carrying my gfs bank card but that didn't seem to bother them.
never been pulled over in the car.
Got pulled over with a couple of friends by an off-duty officer at night - swerving quite dangerously in front of us then slamming the brakes on. We stopped, and among other things he accused us of having no lights. We did, but being dynamos they'd stopped too.
He told us to push our bikes home on the pavement as bikes shouldn't be on the road, we told him to go forth and multiply, so he roared off almost taking out a car.
I think he had issues.
Funny how this thread is split roughly evenly between people who have been stopped by the police and had experiences ranging from ok to slightly disgruntled, and the other half who haven't been stopped but believe if they were it would amount to state sponsored harassment carried out by uniformly racist officers.
Ho hum, it takes all sorts i suppose.
I got stopped the other night, certainly wasn't because I was black, because it was night. And also because I'm not black. All very professional and swift- quick tyres and lights check, called in plate and driver details for insurance, thanks for your time, off you go. Must be mostly for the physical checks I assume since ANPR can do the rest I think?
Years back I got stopped on the motorbike and that didn't go so well- they didn't know the law for motorbike tyre tread and decided my Roadtec (which had a slick centre) was bald, when it was actually about 2 weeks old. Then I had to show them how to operate their tyre gauge thing as they were getting false readings. Then I got told off for having a scottoiler as it was "leaking oil". Was fine really but made me late for work, and they were pretty close to charging me despite there being nothing actually wrong.
twice been pulled over in the last six weeks, breath tests, once at 8 30 in morning, the other 9 at night,no issue really, learnt the hard way many years ago-- if it helps to cut back on dangerous habits/attitudes then fine by me.
I remember 7 or 8 of us getting pulled over on the A68 south of Tow Law on our motorbikes. They'd clocked the lead bike at over 140! It turned out that they just wanted a look at a mates new Ducati 748R (it was a few years ago now) as one of the traffic officers in the car was thinking of buying one.
They had a word about appropriate speed and zero tolerance on speeding in 30 and 40 limits and told us to have fun. Quality road traffic policing!