[Closed] Petition to send Hospital ship to Gaza

The secretary generals inquiry found the naval blockade legal

What more do you want Ernie?

You're repeatedly quoting its illegality as FACT when even the UN cant agree on the issue, the fact that the palmer report says the opposite to other reports means that you can't do this, the best you can do is claim that the legality of the blockade is a contentious and unsettled issue - the opinion of a UNRWA Spokesperson is not a court of law - until you can show an ICJ court decision that says otherwise, then the fact that even the UN can't agree a line means the jury is out.

What you can't get round, however much you whinge and whine about the poor Pals, is that if they stopped trying to ship in rockets and explosives to fire at Israeli civilians (which even they admit is illegal under international law), then there would be no need for the blockade!

What more do you want Ernie?

You keep banging on about the Palmer report but the UN quickly concluded that Palmer, a politician, was motivated by political considerations, and not legal ones, and was wrong to have done so.

What more do you want ?

[url= http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/us-un-gaza-rights-idUSTRE78C59R20110913 ]U.N. experts say Israel's blockade of Gaza illegal[/url]

With reference to the Palmer report :

[i]A panel of five independent U.N. rights experts reporting to the U.N. Human Rights Council rejected that conclusion, saying the blockade had subjected Gazans to collective punishment in "flagrant contravention of international human rights and humanitarian law."

"In pronouncing itself on the legality of the naval blockade, the Palmer Report does not recognize the naval blockade as an integral part of Israel's closure policy toward Gaza which has a disproportionate impact on the human rights of civilians," they said in a joint statement.

An earlier fact-finding mission named by the same U.N. forum to investigate the flotilla incident also found in a report last September that the blockade violated international law. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says the blockade violates the Geneva Conventions.

Richard Falk, U.N. special rapporteur on human rights in the occupied Palestinian territories and one of the five experts who issued Tuesday's statement, said the Palmer report's conclusions were influenced by a desire to salve Turkish-Israeli ties.

"The Palmer report was aimed at political reconciliation between Israel and Turkey. It is unfortunate that in the report politics should trump the law," he said in the statement.[/i]

It is absolutely clear that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal under international law, both the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross say so.

But you want to claim that it's legal based on a discredited four year old report, and discredited by the UN itself no less, and despite the fact that since then the UN has repeatedly reiterated that the blockade is illegal.

The question is who to believe, an anonymous right-wing pro-zionist punter on a mtb forum, or the International Committee of the Red Cross and the UN which as recently as two days ago once again stated that Israeli blockade of Gaza was illegal ?

A tricky one aye ?

BTW you still haven't said whether you've signed the petition ?

So Ernie, if its so clearly illegal, why don't the Palestinians take it to the ICC like they've been threatening to for years? They've been dithering round this again over the last few weeks, saying they were going to the ICC and then not doing it, saying they were in discussions but not actually committing to it.

Go on then? Why the reluctance? 😆

😆

Yes it's absolutely hilarious that Israel gets away with endlessly flouting international law 🙄

Have you signed the petition yet ?

Its absolutely hilarious that Hamas won't take it to the ICC, because by the Palestinians own admission they've been endlessly flouting international law themselves 😆

Why on earth would I sign a petition to put British naval and military crewmembers in harms way to help a bunch of terrorists?

I really don't think you get it Ernie - my position is simple, until the Gazans stop firing rockets, they can get ****ed!

Why on earth would I sign a petition to put British naval and military crewmembers in harms way to help a bunch of terrorists?

Don't forget that, as the Argus is an RFA, it's civilian-manned (apart from the embarked Naval personnel who run the PCRF & Ship's Flight).

"Petition to send Hospital ship to Gaza" - Guardian readers only, I presume?

Don't forget that, as the Argus is an RFA, it's civilian-manned

Not really. If it goes into a war zone the civilians become RN Reserves.
They are all "Sponsored Reserves" which means they carry RN ID's, dog tags, ranks and service numbers.

the poor Pals

500 kids and 200 women dead. Stay classy Ninfan.

3 billon USD per year on military aid from the US to Israel, so I guess relatively speaking, they are pretty poor.

And the smiley face at the end of your post....you must be some atrocious human being to treat this situation as an opportunity to play gobshite tennis.

Not really. If it goes into a war zone the civilians become RN Reserves.
They are all "Sponsored Reserves" which means they carry RN ID's, dog tags, ranks and service numbers.

That's interesting, and I stand corrected. It must be a recent change though, because I used to know a few RFA officers and it wasn't the case then (used to only apply to the Point class sealift vessels).

It must be a recent change though

It is. Last 3 or 4 years. Wasn't totally welcome as I understand it.*

All to do with "illegal combatants" and not getting any POW rights if captured.

*I am not and have never have been in the RFA

you must be some atrocious human being

Could be worse, I could fire rockets at civilians from churches, schools and hospitals!

a bunch of terrorists?

To be fair Z-11 recently you dismissed, on here, Nelson Mandela, a man who was deeply loved, respected, and a role model for millions, if not billions, across the world, as a terrorist.

Which puts you firmly in the same category as the far right neo-nazi nutters on Stormfront Forum.

So you can imagine how much importance I attach to your character assessment of someone.

Or how unsurprised I am that you lack any empathy with the sick and injured in Gaza dismissing them all as "a bunch of terrorists".

Which puts you firmly in the same category as the far right neo-nazi nutters on Stormfront Forum.

So you can imagine how much importance I attach to your character assessment of someone.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/guiltbya.html

Oh I'm sorry, was I being a little harsh on your character ? There there.

Don't worry Ernie - Mandela and the ANC, lovely people, I particularly liked their generous offer of a free necklace for anyone who stood against them...

Kind of like Hamas knocking off protesters against them in Gaza really!

You're quite a character ninfan, if you didn't exist we'd have to invent you.

But saying that, thankfully i'll never meet such an ignorant person as yourself.

No smiley, hope that doesn't affect our relationship.

Shame you couldn't actually come up with a more formed argument that tackled any of the issues rather than just name calling Somafunk 🙁

Just look at the opprobrium that emanates just because someone dares to say that according to the UN's own reports, the illegality of the blockade if less than cut and dried, or who dares to say that the best way forward for the poor innocent victims in all this would be if their elected representatives stopped trying to kill poor innocent Israelis...

I really don't think you get it Ernie - my position is simple, until the Gazans stop firing rockets, they can get ****ed!

You've lost it , totally lost the plot. Assuming you're not just some immature troll and you actually believe this stuff your attitude is staggering and you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope one day you can look back at your views today and see how ugly they are. I actually pity you a bit.

How many rockets did the 414 dead Palestinian children fire before Israel killed them? 115 of them were under 5 years old. You just supported the murder of 115 preschool children.

Unknown - our government are responsible for the death of far more children in Iraq and Afghanistan

If you want to play the Moral equivalence game then Congratulations, You supported their murders! Perhaps you ought to look at your own choices a bit? your taxes paid for it - Hope you didn't vote for Tony Blair? if so, perhaps its you that should be ashamed of yourself 😐

Actually, no I didn't vote for Blair and I think the illegal war he led us unto is abhorrant. Difference is I never once said the innocent civilians of Iraq or Afghanistan can 'get f*cked'.

At least accept some responsibility for your views, your whataboutery is pathetic.

There is absolutely no point in arguing using such a format as a web forum, from a linguistic viewpoint it is flawed and ineffective as grammatical structure, intonation, rhythm, pitch and tempo is essential to a cohesively formed argumental discussion so that is why i refuse to enter into such a pointless exercise, and anyway……I, along with many other decent forum posters on this thread have the legal and ultimately moral high ground on this thread, think of it as our Mount Sinai as we lob rocks your way, i'd cower if i were you and keep my head down.

PS - they are not innocent Israelis, they are militant Zionists - do not confuse the two.

Unknown, but you didn't really do anything to stop it, did you? Happily carried on paying your taxes and let them carry on, didn't really stand up and do anything about it like superglue yourself to a truck full of bombs.

At least I'm happy to accept that civilians being killed is an inevitable result of people waging war by firing rockets at people, if you want civilians to stop dying then call on Hamas to stop firing rockets!

Ninfan seek help. Seek professional help. I'm done with you, like I said I hope one day you get the perspective you so badly need.

Yeah, maybe when the Israelis start bombing Surrey? (ps, thats unlikely to happen, because, you see, we're not firing rockets at them...)

... rather than just name calling Somafunk 🙁

I can't see where Somafunk has engaged in name calling. He's called you an ignorant person, a fair comment which is simply stating a fact.

For someone who dismisses the sick and injured in Gaza as "a bunch of terrorists" you are remarkably sensitive of criticism. Why the sad face because someone refers to you as an ignorant person ?

You are also remarkably dishonest. You claim that "the illegality of the blockade is less than cut and dried". It isn't if you accept the legal opinion of the UN and the International Committee of the Red Cross, it's illegal according to them, the UN reiterated that 2 days ago.

But you want to refer to a discredited report from 4 years ago, which is like saying that because a guilty verdict is overturned on appeal the guilt of the person is "less than cut and dried", when it clearly isn't.

The opinion from the UN, as stated 2 days ago, is that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is illegal, that's what counts.

Yeah, maybe when the Israelis start bombing Surrey? (ps, thats unlikely to happen, because, you see, we're not firing rockets at them...)

Well, that was predictable.

And pathetic.

Could you, perhaps, elaborate?

Ninfan where do you get your idea that "we" kill more children in Afghanistan from ? UK forces operate courageous restraint and get investigated and prosecuted for wrongful killings . if you ever watch the news there have been a couple of notable examples. The IDF exonerate the deliberate murder of children eg 12 year old presenting no threat officer emptys magazine into her at close range.
The UN mission for Afghanistan put coalition forces as responsible for 3% of civilian casualities so your assertion that UK forces who adopt a clear ethical policy use clear target identification procedure prior to engagement and face investigation when wrong are bigger baby killers than the IDF needs some backup .

Many thanks to all who signed 🙂