This is the kind of 'blue sky' thinking that got me were i am today...
Your partner get a rucksack full of kittens to take running with her. The extra weight makes her stronger and fitter (Win No.1) but as a bad dog approaches she can deploy a moggy (just like choppers do with flares when locked onto by a heatseaker). Dog is distracted/attracted to kitten (Win No.2). Kitten is killed to death (1 less cat in the world - Win No.3) and partner gets home safe and sound. That's 3 wins and no laws are broken.
Didn't read the entire thread so sorry if it's already ben suggested.
on and on posted something bloody useful back there. Best it's ignored in favour of bickering though eh. I'll post a pic to help -
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https://www.police-supplies.co.uk/dog-deterrent
DezB - Memberon and on posted something bloody useful back there. Best it's ignored in favour of bickering though eh. I'll post a pic to help -
A child's face.
Well I didn't want to get in the way of an argument 🙂
OP...
I'm genuinely surprised that 3 pages in & you still haven't picked up the phone & spoken to a professional!
Why not?
Why rely on anecdotal evidence rather than professional advice??
Or have you? In which case I humbly apologise!
[i]Why not?[/i]
Sitting back watching the bickering is too entertaining?
Right, I'm not really sure the OP wants a solution.
1. Talk to the owners, tell them you don't like their dogs jumping up you and ask them to keep them under control, you may have to do this a few times, people can be quite thick.
2. Do some research (lebowski has linked some good resources) and learn to be more assertive with dogs without resorting to violence.
3. Get a running buddy.
4. Get some of that bite back stuff, try squirting a bit of water in the meantime.
5. maybe run at a different time of day when there are less dogs around.
6. If the dogs are out of control and dangerous, call the police/dog warden, giving precise details.
7. Talk loudly to the local councillor/MP about the problem.
8. Reflect on your own behaviour around dogs, is there anything you can change about your demeanour or body language which may help.
9. Roll in fox shit, it makes you invisible.
These are just a few suggestions, most have already been made, but cock it, lets argue about nothing instead...
[quote=fin25 ]1. Talk to the owners, tell them you don't like their dogs jumping up you and ask them to keep them under control, you may have to do this a few times, people can be quite thick.
Have you ever tried that? IME even following being bitten, dog owners just get defensive and can't see they've done anything wrong. I think the OP mentioned them laughing at their dogs being "playful" which is quite typical. See also: http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/why-are-we-seen-as-different
5. maybe run at a different time of day when there are less dogs around.
What if that's the only time you can run - I used to run a lot at lunchtimes, when plenty of dogs were around and it was on one of those occasions I got bitten. When else in the day do you suggest I did my sessions?
6. If the dogs are out of control and dangerous, call the police/dog warden, giving precise details.
The OP also says they've already done that.
8. Reflect on your own behaviour around dogs, is there anything you can change about your demeanour or body language which may help.
Yeah - I've been victim blamed on that one before as well, when I'm just out for a run or ride doing my best to ignore the dogs. Because you know I actually like dogs (and don't even mind them coming up to me so long as they don't bite).
Right I'm back. Without reading the thread, I am going to assume the OP didn't get the answers they wanted, so started arguing with everyone in the thread?
Woah there aracer, they are a list of possible suggestions, no victim blaming, i'm genuinely trying to help someone avoid getting into trouble. I don't think it ever does any harm to reflect on your own feelings and behaviour. If after reflecting, you don't feel that you are contributing to the problem, crack on.
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for the same reasons I took the 'run somewhere else' option, probably not an option for a lone female but I now run on the local grouse moors where there's signs everywhere saying dogs must be kept on a lead, so there's never any dogs up there, it's much more enjoyable.
Problem with all this is that many people are idiots and many of them own dogs so whilst in ab ideal world the joggers of this world should be unmolested its not going to happen getting the to shout no or sit or something will make most dogs think twice.
local grouse moors where there's signs everywhere saying dogs must be kept on a lead, so there's never any dogs up there,
dog walkers our way ignore all that, includes the heroes with trail hounds, lambing season paah that's for other people
Here's an idea no one has mentioned yet:...
GET A DOG!(a rescue crossbreed)
It would love to go running with your wife and dogs are generally ace.
Dog owner for 20+ years plus I regularly encounter 'problem' owners and dogs when trying to walk/run/ride shared trails/bridleways.
Most dogs are simply wanting to play - running and waving your arms in the air probably just excites dogs. Simply stop, fold your arms and look away - most dog might have a sniff, but then probably walk off.
If you know the cues, aggressive dogs behave quite differently to playful ones - learn to know the difference. Barking and wagging tail usually means play not aggression.
As well as deterrent, how about simply throwing a few dog biscuits on the floor? Food's more interesting than humans to most dogs.
The argument about control doesn't wash with many owners - I had one dog walker try to tell me that I should have turned around, ridden back 200m and waited behind a gate on a bridleway as he had priority and I was the one 'out of control' - I was just trying to ride wide and slow. Many dog-owners are f*wits too 🙄
Try a dog repeller / alarm thing. Or try [url=
Simply stop, fold your arms and look away - most dog might have a sniff, but then probably walk off.
So OP or I should stop what we're doing (jogging) stand still and wait until dog and owner leave the area? Perhaps your dog should be on lead and stand still until we leave area?
I too am fed up of dog poop everywhere, dogs off lead and all over the place and more than a few careering towards me on bike or foot.
Christ, what a depressing thread. It's like reading the comments on the Daily Mail 'truck' / cyclist' post earlier today.
If the OP's missus wants to be left alone, she should be left alone. End of. All this whataboutery around how she should WTFU or learn to be a dog whisperer is madness. "Maybe it only wants to play!!!1!" Irrelevant, she doesn't want to. "Have a conversation with the owner" yeah, great, how about "do you have a first aid kit" as an opener? And of course, most dog owners are receptive to constructive criticism.
Pepper spray is clearly the wrong thing, and I don't know what is, but all the OP asked is "look, how can my wife be safe?" Anyone got any good ideas beyond "its her own fault"?
I agree with Cougar 100%.
but all the OP asked is "look, how can my wife be safe?" Anyone got any good ideas beyond "its her own fault"?
Dude, there's been loads of suggestions, many of them pretty good ideas, only a few trolls and the odd suggestion that a bit of self reflection is never a bad thing, if not just to eliminate oneself from enquiries, so to speak.
Most of us, even the dog lovers among us, recognise that dogs jumping up at you can be bloody annoying and have tried to help, but to be honest, it's a pretty difficult problem to solve when all the solutions are glossed over so people can argue.
I can't be bothered reading 4 pages but I'm a runner/cyclist/dog owner & the main problem is generally dog owners who don't understand that not everyone likes dogs & runners/cyclists who stubbornly refuse to veer from their intended course because they're "in the right".
If you insist on some form of repellant the Police use this:
It's effective.
That said, you're likely to get a dog lead round the back of your head by an irate dog owner.
It's difficult to be non-emotive when you've had a run in with a dog, but ignore the dog, stop & explain to the owner that they could help by just holdin into the dog whilst runners etc pass. Has to be calm, non-emotive, rational otherwise it just becomes a battle.
I agree with fin25 100%
bongohoohaa
I agree with fin25 100%
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Cougar - ModeratorChrist, what a depressing thread. It's like reading the comments on the Daily Mail 'truck' / cyclist' post earlier today.
If the OP's missus wants to be left alone, she should be left alone. End of. All this whataboutery around how she should WTFU or learn to be a dog whisperer is madness. "Maybe it only wants to play!!!1!" Irrelevant, she doesn't want to. "Have a conversation with the owner" yeah, great, how about "do you have a first aid kit" as an opener? And of course, most dog owners are receptive to constructive criticism.
Pepper spray is clearly the wrong thing, and I don't know what is, but all the OP asked is "look, how can my wife be safe?" Anyone got any good ideas beyond "its her own fault"?
Nail Head + lots, switch this to someone who allows their children to run riot in a public space would you just say "its OK they are only playing" as they throw rocks at you?
If the OP's missus wants to be left alone, she should be left alone
If the OP's question had been "My shed keeps getting broken into & all the bikes get nicked. How can I prevent this happening?" I take it everyone would be happy with the answer " People shouldn't steal other people's property".
Yes, owners should control their dogs...but some don't. Suggesting that the only solution is getting some sort of physical deterrence is, perhaps, just a little naive.
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That was kinda my point; or at least, half of it. (The other half being, what can she really do?)
There's no point being right if the alternative is being bitten, but blaming the victim isn't helpful.
Dude, there's been loads of suggestions,
The bite-back stuff seems to be the only sensible one, and that's fantastic. All the rest seem to be variations on "go somewhere else" / "learn about dogs." Sod that.
it's a pretty difficult problem to solve when all the solutions are glossed over so people can argue.
You're absolutely right and I apologise if I've "glossed over" anything.
Too many cat people in here. Dogs FTW!!
learn to be a dog whisperer is madness
I couldn't disagree more strongly.
I think finding out a little bit about how dogs think & behave would be very much a sound thing to do.
IMHO one of the best ways of dealing with something I don't understand/have a fear of it is to learn a little bit about the subject more: think of it as a bit of personal growth.
What's the downside?
Why are you so anti the idea??
Why are you so anti the idea??
Hates dogs 8)
I think finding out a little bit about how dogs think & behave would be very much a sound thing to do.
Compare: "I think finding out a little bit about how rapists think & behave would be very much a sound thing to do."
That's a ****in stupid comparison.
Woah there aracer, they are a list of possible suggestions, [b]no victim blaming[/b], i'm genuinely trying to help someone avoid getting into trouble. [b]I don't think it ever does any harm to reflect on your own feelings and behaviour[/b]. If after reflecting, you don't feel that you are contributing to the problem, crack on.
Looks like a subtle form of victim blaming to me.
The animal belongs to someone else, it's behaviour is causing a person distress, why should the distressed party be forced to modify perfectly reasonable behaviour in order for someone else's problem animal to stop causing distress?
Again, let's blame the victim for someone else's lack of care and consideration.
What you are doing is victim blaming. I know its not your intent but it what it amounts to. It is the dogs owners responsibility to stop the dog bothering anyone. Its is not Joe Publics responsibility to have to learn about dog behaviour. You may think its sensible mitigation but others differ.
It is perfectly legal to use whatever means to hand or necessary to defend yourself from a perceived threat from a dog.
Compare: "I think finding out a little bit about how rapists think & behave would be very much a sound thing to do."
Seems reasonable TBH - I would want my daughters to at least give a thought about where they're walking (especially at night) and what accepting a drink from a stranger could actually signal. So yes, seems a good idea. Ideally it wouldn't be necessary, but it's not an ideal world.
It's easy to screech "victim blaming" over the internet, but the sad fact is that we live in the real world, and some people are ****s. Learning about how to avoid the negative aspects of this is pretty sensible advice.
km79 - Member
That's a **** stupid comparison.
Is it?
I've yet to see you post up any solution that doesn't automatically place the onus on the victim to do all the work to modify [i]their[/i] quite reasonable behaviour, and none at all about those actually responsible for allowing the animals in [i]their[/i] care to prevent them causing others actual distress.
You're clearly a dog owner who assumes absolute right over what you and your animal can do in a public place.
Which puts Cougars comment in context, just like those who say women should modify their behaviour when out alone, dress in a 'non-provocative' fashion, etc.
Again, victim blaming.
🙄
[quote=fin25 ]Most of us, even the dog lovers among us, recognise that dogs jumping up at you can be bloody annoying and have tried to help, but to be honest, it's a pretty difficult problem to solve when all the solutions are glossed over so people can argue.
The trouble is, most of the solutions involve modifying perfectly reasonable behaviour which isn't bothering anybody else. When I was bitten whilst out running I was doing an interval session - not barging past anybody as there was plenty of space on a big wide path. The owner of course suggested that I should have just stopped running. Well that would really make my interval session work well wouldn't it? Oh, and the last time I was bitten whilst riding, the owner suggested that my riding was unreasonable because it impacted on her right to let her dog run free.
I do get that as some* dog owners are ****wits it is an issue we have to deal with and complaining that it shouldn't happen isn't helpful, but neither are suggested solutions which involve having to stop doing what we're doing whenever there's a dog about.
* I know plenty, none of whom are, hence I presume it's a tiny minority spoiling it
edit: not going to edit the word which the swear filter caught, and quite clearly it should have been caught, but it's got more than 4 letters and isn't quite as offensive as you might think
Firstly. Victim blaming is a problem when it absolves the guilty from responsibility. If you accept that dog owners should control their dogs then you aren't 'blaming' the victim. If I leave a £5000 bike outside a supermarket and refuse to lock it up , that does not mean anyone is entitled to steal it. Suggesting locking it up is not blaming the victim.
More pertinently. The OP is looking for a practical solution to a specific problem appertaining to his wife. Suggesting that all people should control their dogs isn't going to help her in this instance. What is the point in reacting to an individual particular issue with a generalised rant about a population wide problem. You aren't suggesting a solution to the OP's situation. He's asking what [b]she[/b] can do about it, not what society as a whole needs to do.
Seriously you lot are very binary aren't you.
Yes, irresponsible dog owners are the problem. If the OP's wife has tried dealing with the owners through dialogue and reporting to the relevant authorities and still had no luck then a bit of holistic thinking may help. My input was aimed at trying to find solutions to a problem, not worrying about who's fault the problem is, as that ship appears to have sailed.
Compare: "I think finding out a little bit about how rapists think & behave would be very much a sound thing to do."
Now you're just talking shite.
Go away & have a word with yourself.
FFS comparing dogs & rapists as being the samething! A rapist, I'm assuming, knows the difference between right & wrong. A dog has no clue..
In fact enlighten us - how do dogs & rapists occupy the same space??
I am in no way victim blaming but a little work on ones own perception of things can work wonders.
Really, is such a concept so hard to grasp?!
If it is, well, this place really has slumped to new depths.......
Which puts Cougars comment in context, just like those who say women should modify their behaviour when out alone, dress in a 'non-provocative' fashion, etc.
It's a lovely idea, but the sad fact is that the real world doesn't work that way - some people are *s. And that might mean that the sensible option is to modify your behaviour. I fully agree this shouldn't be necessary, but there you go, that's real life for you.
FWIW I'm both a dog lover and a runner, and it pisses me off no end when some bloody dog wanders into my path, let alone when it runs up barking (playing or otherwise). I shouldn't have to stop, but some times it's necessary, and I'm glad I know how to behave when I do so. I also know how to run past a dog - move over to the other side of the path, talk to the dog as I pass, and show no fear. Again, I shouldn't have to do this kind of thing, but some dog owners are *s.
This is why I fully agree that the OPs wife should think about what she can do to minimise the problem, and I don't think this is in any way suggesting she's actually guilty of causing it.
Is it?
Yes.
I've yet to see you post up any solution that doesn't automatically place the onus on the victim to do all the work to modify their quite reasonable behaviour, and none at all about those actually responsible for allowing the animals in their care to prevent them causing others actual distress.
The OP wasn't looking for something that the dog owner could do?
From the OP.
She's now invested in a pepper spray dispenser and is going to take it out when running. Any dogs running up to her in an aggressive manner will get sprayed.I'd prefer her not to do this, or be put in this position, but I'm at a loss on what to recommend.
I took that as looking for an alternative to using pepper spray? If there is a product out there that she can use that will make those actually responsible for allowing the animals in their care to prevent them causing others actual distress then please share.
You're clearly a dog owner who assumes absolute right over what you and your animal can do in a public place.
Bollocks. **** you too.
Which puts Cougars comment in context, just like those who say women should modify their behaviour when out alone, dress in a 'non-provocative' fashion, etc.
Again, victim blaming.
Not once did I blame the victim, thats a ridiculous suggestion.
