Forum menu
You give way even when you can see it's clear?!....Jesus wept.
I slow down so I can check the road properly as I understand that the effect of [url= http://www.londoncyclist.co.uk/raf-pilot-teach-cyclists/ ]Saccadic Masking[/url] means that a quick look left and right as you approach can leave you completely convinced that a junction is clear when it isn't. Especially if the traffic isn't car shaped. It's probably the main reason for SMIDSYs.
Worth a read:
It doesn't bother me when someone "gets stuck" behind me when I'm driving on the speed limits in 30s, 40s and 50s. At least I've slowed them down and potentially saved a life or two. Sanctimonious? Possibly, but I couldn't give a sh1t nowadays. I'll never wind people up by driving under the limit unless circumstances forced it, but I won't let some d-head force me to go beyond legal safe limits. Outside of our motorised tin boxes, these people must surely respect where most people live, their kids, pets, etc. But inside their motors, they're a different breed.
I'd like to hear a driving examiner's take on that one.
Our Examiners round here wouldn't fail a candidate for 55 in a 60 they would, at worst, give them a minor.
50 in a 60, for a distance could fail them. A lot of it depends if the candidate sees a repeater sign then speeds up or if they sit a 50 in a 60 with a massive queue behind them.......
50 in a 60, for a distance could fail them.
That's interesting simmy. 50mph in a 60 is not that slow and I wouldn't have thought constituted anything which could be classed as bad or poor driving. I was teaching someone to drive who had been with BSM and they were doing 60mph on an NSL road at a point where I felt it wasn't appropriate, especially given their lack of experience and was told that was what they had to do! Can't understand the logic behind it as it is, after all, the maximum speed allowed for good conditions etc.
Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?
50mph in a 60 is not that slow
+1
Almost seems like a collective hysteria about driving to the maximum allowable has taken over the testing system. You can't be responsible for the safety issues caused by people behind you who get frustrated because they're not doing 60 in an NSL.
I'm perfectly content to sit behind someone doing 50 on the NSL parts of the A65. I might overtake them if it's a clear and easy spot, but chances are I'll catch up behind someone doing 40 pretty soon anyhow.
Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?
Think they are and that can be part of the problem - speed limits seen as targets.
My instructor used to encourage me to get a move on coming back from the test town I practised in - the A4 was nice and wide with next to no traffic during the day then - but equally would let me know if I was trying a bit hard where it wasn't appropriate.
Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?
Absolutely.
I teach as much as I can about real world driving, take students to different areas to get experience of different road layouts etc, but the test is only 38-40 mins long so how can that be " driving for life "
Some test routes around here don't go above 30 mph and to get a student upto 70 mph before test I would have to travel 20 miles though 2 towns to get to a location that allows that legally.
On the other hand there is a 40 mph road right near the test centre that is really bendy and narrow and the examiners actually prefer the candidates to do 30 than 40 on that section.
Woody - MemberThere really isn't much point in overtaking (and never any excuse for tail-gaiting) on most non-motorway roads these days, in a car anyway, and I can't fathom out the mentality of people who do it!
It is very simple.
The main reason we drive cars is because it is quicker to get from A to B than walking.
Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker, the whole point of the exercise. 🙂
Seems people are taught how to pass the test rather than how to drive properly?
It's an interesting attitude.
If everyone drove the way I was taught (YMMV) there wouldn't be any accidents*.
I think the above sentiment is normally used as justification for lazy, shit driving.
*Though there may still be speeding fines. 😆
Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker
Alternatively, it allows you to drive faster for half a mile until you reach the back of the next queue of slower-moving vehicles.
There are some roads (or some times of day) that make overtaking worthwhile, but mostly, around here, it gains you nothing or virtually nothing.
It does give me something to point out to the kids when you can see that the guy who has been stressing himself out over the last 10 miles tailgating and overtaking multiple cars (again, on the A65), is still in sight less than a minute ahead.
Overtaking slower traffic allows one to drive faster and arrive quicker, the whole point of the exercise
The whole point isn't to arrive as quickly as possible, it's to arrive quickly enough and as safely as possible.
The answer to these questions is the same thing. Tailgating because you want to go faster than the vehicle in front is bullying, pure and simple.
Tailgating really fkn annoys me. Not so much when its done to me - 4th gear and a prod of the accelerator will see the back of most tailgaters but when I see drivers bullying other road users.
My brother used to drive a ridiculously fast and loud Mitsubishi Evo, he told me he use to bully the bullies. If he saw someone tailgating and deemed it was bullying - for example a Nissan Micra legitimately overtaking slower traffic at the speed limit being tailgated by some knob in a 320d - he'd tailgate the tailgater. Most of them got out of the way pretty quickly, especially if his anti lag was on!
This behaviour is neither big nor clever but I can't say I disapproved all that much.
molgrips - MemberThe whole point isn't to arrive as quickly as possible, it's to arrive quickly enough and as safely as possible.
You appear to have missed the bit where I said
"The [b]main[/b] reason we drive cars is because it is quicker to get from A to B than walking."
I can see how you may have been misled by the latter half of my post, but I'm sure you'll agree with the above. 🙂
Overtaking certainly can get you where you need to go more quickly, at least where I live in rural Derbyshire it does. Maybe not so much in an area that's more suburban and speed limits vary regularly but, for example, a friend and I set off at the same time from Ladybower to head back to Matlock on Saturday. I overtook a handful of cars on my way home and got back an entire fifteen minutes earlier because he ended up behind so many people doing 40, or regularly 30, in a 60. Enough time for me to dismantle a bike, my mate to shower and us reload the car to get him to the train station in time.
I obeyed the speed limit the majority of the way- I'm not too down with speeding and the main discussion of overtaking in a 30 is clearly a bad thing. People do it through our village. The speed limit on the A road through our village should probably be a 40, but is a 30- regardless, people tailgate and overtake their way through it and it's unfair on those of us who live there and are exposed to that sort of driving on a regular basis.
I can see how you may have been misled by the latter half of my post, but I'm sure you'll agree with the above
True, but you seem to be conflating overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking.
If you don't overtake in a 30, it'll still be significantly quicker than walking over most distances.
Re being held up - it makes less difference than it feels like. If drive to Farnborough on a clear road I can do it in 2h15 normally. If I get stuck in motorway traffic jams and generally have a crap journey, it'll take 2h30. On country roads, if I drive to my parents' house and get stuck behind slow traffic the whole way and get stuck in traffic in Hereford, it'll turn a 90 min journey into a 100 min journey. Which really is not that significant.
molgrips - MemberTrue, but you seem to be conflating overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking.
I hadn't mentioned overtaking in 30 zones, and my initial post was in reply to someone else who also wasn't talking about just 30 zones. 😕
Also, unless you walk really really quickly, or overtake at a speed slower than walking pace, then you can quite correctly conflate overtaking in 30s with being quicker than walking. 😕
Are you tired today molgrips? 😆
What's wrong with people just starting the journey 5-10 minutes earlier to allow for traffic? Is this the reason everyone's in such a rush to get everywhere?
Just because the satnav/Google maps/previous journeys at quiet times suggest you can do a journey in 50 minutes doesn't mean you are going to do it in 50 minutes. Plan for 60 and if you arrive early it's a bonus!
Tailgating really fkn annoys me.
I don't case so much about tailgaters, unless I have a bike in the boot - as it will be their fault if they hit me, it is the tw8ts that pull into the gap in front of you and chop your braking distance right down.
If they pulled into the front end of the gap, thereby threatening their braking distance rather than mine, that would be a lot better.
Then they can drop back slightly and so can I to accommodate them, whilst I forgive the fact that their shortsightedness/rudeness meant they didn't have time to pull into the huge gap behind me...
But they don't, it is almost like a punishment pass to a cyclist.
it is the tw8ts that pull into the gap in front of you and chop your braking distance right down.
Yep!
If you leave anything even remotely close to a proper two-second gap then someone will inevitably overtake and slot themselves into it, even if all they have achieved is moving up one place in a long train of traffic that is all moving at the same speed.
molgrips - MemberRe being held up - it makes less difference than it feels like.
especially when you consider that most* journeys are under 5miles, where the gains from speeding are even less (2 or 3 minutes at most).
(*67%)
milky1980 - MemberWhat's wrong with people just starting the journey 5-10 minutes earlier to allow for traffic?
Absolutely nothing.
People have the wrong attitude towards driving, and that's what we need to change in order to improve standards.
Best thing is to put the ETA time up on the satnav, and watch it not change much for all the effort you are putting in to making progress.
Just rely on the dual carriageway/mway sections to make progress, as it really isn't worth the stress compared to the amount of time you make up and possibly the risks you take (for yourself and other people).
Plus the extra fuel burnt on the overtakes, just save the fuel and put it towards another CD to play in the car...
urnerGuy - MemberBest thing is to put the ETA time up on the satnav, and watch it not change much for all the effort you are putting in to making progress.
Best thing is to keep your eyes on the road. 😉
Just rely on the dual carriageway/mway sections to make progress, as it really isn't worth the stress compared to the amount of time you make up and possibly the risks you take (for yourself and other people).Plus the extra fuel burnt on the overtakes, just save the fuel and put it towards another CD to play in the car...
It is possible to overtake without inducing stress, and without taking risks. I'd recommend it.
It's also possible to overtake without changing speed, and without burning extra fuel.
It is possible to overtake without inducing stress, and without taking risks.
Yes, and we're not complaining about that. We're talking about people who are clearly highly stressed about being held up slightly, and then take risks.
This is a damaging attitude for the driver and everone else.
molgrips - MemberWe're talking about people who are clearly highly stressed about being held up slightly, and then take risks.
...in a 30 zone.
I had one this morning. A lovely chap in a 51 plate silver Audi TT (the stereotype exists for good reason). I could see him gesticulating behind me as he sat a couple of metres behind me. Then came the buzz my back bumper overtaking manoeuvre and in a puff of thrashed engine smoke he was gone. I hope I wasn't preventing him from pulling his children from a burning house or something equally urgent.