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Hats off to Paris for what they're trying to do there.
I read this from the motorists' lobby group...
"If we don't stop it now, this unjustified rebellion led by an ultra-urban and anti-car minority will spread like gangrene to other cities."
...and I'm hoping that they can't stop it and it will indeed spread to other cities including mine.
Bring it on. This, or mass vandalism aimed at giant 4x4's. I'm not really bothered which one comes first.
It’s not just SUV’s that it applies to, any PHEV over 1600 kg and any BEV over 2000kg is also going to be charged. I would guess that would cover quite a large proportion of the saloon/ hatch vehicles available in those categories.
Bring it on. This, or mass vandalism aimed at giant 4×4’s. I’m not really bothered which one comes first.
I am not a big fan of very large off roaders but I am also a big fan of individual freedom when someone respects the law.
Supporting criminal damage is beyond ridiculous.
This measure is not particularly aimed at SUVs. It will affect a family estate if it happens to weigh 1601kgs. So where do you draw the line?
@nickfrog has it.
I am not a big fan of very large off roaders but I am also a big fan of individual freedom when someone respects the law.
Supporting criminal damage is beyond ridiculous.
This measure is not particularly aimed at SUVs. It will affect a family estate if it happens to weigh 1601kgs. So where do you draw the line?
Triple parking fees irrespective of vehicle mass? Plus have ULEZ charges.
I’m still disappointed at the pause on the GM congestion zone.
@dickyboy nice hyperbole. But impractical.
Unfortunately only 5% turnout with 55% for, so not really much of an endorsement by Parisians.
It was a similarly tiny percentage voted in the recent referendum on whether or not to ban the hire e-scooters and that got approved. Result - no more e-scooters available for hire and a huge increase in the number of privately owned ones (which are legal, unlike in the UK).
So where do you draw the line?
1600kg and 2000kg seems very reasonable. A 7-seater Dacia Jogger comes in well underweight. A Zoé is 1520kg, a Megane EV 1600-1700kg, a Tesla model Y just under the 2000kg limit. Who needs more car in Paris.
mass vandalism
SUV's seem to self vandalise looking at the amount of scratches and dents they seem to have on them.
This measure is not particularly aimed at SUVs. It will affect a family estate if it happens to weigh 1601kgs. So where do you draw the line?
It might incentivize the manufacturers to remove the bloat from new cars before all the existing infrastructure crumbles. If not, who do you think will pay for strengthening the roads and bridges: the vehicle manufacturers or the tax-paying public?
I’m still disappointed at the pause on the GM congestion zone.
That's been quietly binned off altogether.
I am not a big fan of very large off roaders but I am also a big fan of individual freedom when someone respects the law.
The problem is that very large SUVs are not an individual freedom, they have severe negative consequences for everyone else around. They're much more polluting (or resource intensive if they're EV), they're much more dangerous to pedestrians and cyclists (and smaller cars) in any collision, they take up huge amounts of road space, and the weight has significant issues for roads, bridges, car parks etc. They're also wildly impractical in a city environment.
That’s been quietly binned off altogether.
That's not what I'd understood. It seems to have hit an impasse where GMCA are pushing for a non-charging zone, and HMG are saying (justifiably) there's little evidence that will work. Still, the King of the North was saying the other day how important clean air is to him, so we're all good.
It might incentivize the manufacturers to remove the bloat from new cars before all the existing infrastructure crumbles. If not, who do you think will pay for strengthening the roads and bridges: the vehicle manufacturers or the tax-paying public?
Why not simply ban EVs altogether to protect the existing infrastructure and minimise the cost of strengthening roads and bridges from those inherently bloated vehicles while you're at it?
Back OT, the new rules don't apply to residents. I guess Hidalgo doesn't want to lose any votes. It's basically a NIMBY operation. The different level of Crit'Air tax were already taxing card based on their impact.
SUVs are symptomatic of the selfishness of city driving. Some people need to drive - but they should at least do it apologetically in a small car, not in ****-you SUV. I'd happily vandalize them myself if I was brave enough.
The different level of Crit’Air tax were already taxing card based on their impact.
There isn't a Crit'air tax. And Crit'air was doing nothing to discourage anti-social vehicles on the criteria crazy-legs correctly lists. Crit'air took a lot of old light, small, slow diesel hatchbacks off the Paris streets but not big, heavy Crit'air compliant vehicles producing a lot of pollution by volume even if the concentrations of some (but not all) pollutants are lower.
Is that the same 5% of Parisians who voted to ban e-scooter hire?
Supporting criminal damage is beyond ridiculous.
This measure is not particularly aimed at SUVs. It will affect a family estate if it happens to weigh 1601kgs. So where do you draw the line?
Let's just start with the Range Rovers and the Ford Raptors and go from there shall we? The others will get the message.
You can write off an entire car with a small axe if you hit the A pillar hard enough.
Back OT, the new rules don’t apply to residents
And this is the stupid bit, if you are a resident of somewhere like Paris you have the least need for a big car or any car. Residents should be actively discouraged from owning any car. Same with places like London where public transport is close to adequate.
This measure is not particularly aimed at SUVs. It will affect a family estate if it happens to weigh 1601kgs. So where do you draw the line?
1600kg.
1600kg really isn't very heavy these days. An Octavia estate can weigh that in some trims
Let’s just start with the Range Rovers and the Ford Raptors and go from there shall we? The others will get the message.
You can write off an entire car with a small axe if you hit the A pillar hard enough.
How often do you do that? Or is that just posturing?
I was struck when I rode through Italy and France how many fewer big cars there were. It was noticeable when I got back to the UK how big cars were. It’s a fashion problem encouraged by the car companies and they need to be convinced to market them to us less through legislation.
Why not simply ban EVs altogether to protect the existing infrastructure and minimise the cost of strengthening roads and bridges from those inherently bloated vehicles while you’re at it?
Or just encourage/mandate the dinky ones which, strangely enough, the French are already a bit ahead of the curve on:
1600kg really isn’t very heavy these days. An Octavia estate can weigh that in some trims
As the owner of a 1600kg SUV I agree.
The rules we could make a good start with already exist in Japan, along with the Kei car and related tax structures.<br /><br />
I’m fine with those in cities, many Kei cars are seriously cute, and ridiculously good fun to drive. Just like Smart fourtwo’s are.
You can write off an entire car with a small axe if you hit the A pillar hard enough.<br /><br />
all that would happen is that the car would be scrapped, a new one bought to replace it and quite probably a more hostile driver. <br /><br />
It’s basically a NIMBY operation.
isnt it more to deter people from driving into the city than to punish the people who live there?
I follow this guy on YouTube and found this latest video quote interesting regarding how increasing weight of cars is going against the increases being found by electrification.
All cars should be taxed annually based on weight on a discrete scale like tax brackets. Starting at 1000kg for ICE and 1.2t for an EV. All cars weighed at point of sale to take account of extras.
1000-1500kg is £1/kg
1500-1800kg is charged at £3/kg,
1800-2100kg is £5/kg
and 2100kg and above is 10/kg.
It would make people really think about what they need rather than what they want and would force automotive manufacturers to once again be more efficient rather than slapping luxuries onto everything
So, Sir wants a Range Rover PHEV to get a BIK reduction (rather than a Quashqai), huh? that’ll be 2280kg
£300 from the first bracket, £900 from the second bracket, £1500 from the third bracket and £1800 from the final bracket. £4500 a year in tax.
Or sir could chose the Qashqui PHEV at 1636kg which would be £300 from the first bracket and £408 from the second so £806
Or sir could have a Puma PHEV (1380kg) at £180 in tax.
You're already taxed on how efficient a car is through both road tax and fuel tax. What's the reason to tax on weight? A heavy car is not necessarily bad - a phev will weigh a couple of hundred kg more than a simple non-turbo petrol engines car but will cause less environmental damage
Why is it that we target vehicles before the complete lack of interest the Westminster government shows in public transport?
Someone above suggested that London’s public transport was at least adequate. Ha! It’s expensive as hell and it sucks! I have two sons in London and getting there by train from Cardiff is ridiculously cost prohibitive, while getting between them once there is nigh near impossible - as well as expensive. Compare that to Germany’s inexpensive and nice trains, or Luxembourg’s entirely free public transport.
Montreal is a city of four million people, and for a single, low payment per month, you can get absolutely anywhere in the city and beyond using the metro, the train, and/or the bus. And last time was there, I walked along René Levesque during morning rush, and hardly had look both ways before crossing the street because it was so quiet. There were hardly any cars at all.
So… reduce big cars and big car numbers by all means, but give the people a serious, affordable alternative, and they’ll reduce themselves.
In the meantime, I’ll feel that I’ve got no alternative but to fill up the road with my car.
@saxonrider not sure what parts of London you are travelling between but your experience is totally different to mine & I travel to numerous different site throughout London for work with no great difficulty & tfl costs are capped daily.
But for the win - get a motorbike - zero ULEZ or congestion & £1 to park all day in central London 👍
Another pipedream of mine - imagine how great public transport could be if all the money we spent on private transport was spent on public instead.
You’re already taxed on how efficient a car is through both road tax and fuel tax. What’s the reason to tax on weight? A heavy car is not necessarily bad – a phev will weigh a couple of hundred kg more than a simple non-turbo petrol engines car but will cause less environmental damage
Hence why the weight entry point for an EV is higher, but you need to tax the vehicle AND the use. Research has shown that most people ignore daily/monthly running costs when making vehicle choices, but annual tax (even though quite small at the moment) can still inflence decisions. This needs to be hammered home and not just on cars, but houses, energy use, everything, but cars are the most wasteful in terms of resoruces both in production and use. 5 years of a 2300kg Range Rover is almost £23k in tax, 5 years of a ludicrous BMW iX 116kwh at 2700kg would be closer to £40k in tax.
Taxing volume penalises families who might still have bought an efficient car but suited to their needs, diabled, kids, van, etc. But if you want to make it a lifestyle van or a luxury offroader, because...well, be prepared to pay for it.
FYI - the weight of the chassis for the modern Range Rover has dropped enormously over its life. In 2003, it was 2700kg, now, even with batteries, it's 2300kg, but if you removed double glazing, massive leather, heated airconditioning massaging, whatever seats, huge panoramic sunroof, 4x4 drivetrain, etc, you'd easily save 300kg and a base range rover might be under 1750kg, but at the moment, the base RR is just under 2000kg. Excess weight should be taxed and used to either develop or maintain infrastructure.
Someone above suggested that London’s public transport was at least adequate. Ha! It’s expensive as hell and it sucks! I have two sons in London and getting there by train from Cardiff is ridiculously cost prohibitive, while getting between them once there is nigh near impossible – as well as expensive.
Try driving it on a weekday, I've had the displeasure of having to drive only halfway across it, took about 3 hours to drive from the M25 to Westminster. And it cost me about £60 in TfL and parking charges!
The £15 cap is a blumin bargain!
A heavy car is not necessarily bad
F=MA ... crash protection whether real risk or perceived is part of why some people buy big, heavy vehicles now or don't feel as safe as they could in a smaller car. It becomes an arms race. With you on the other benefits of EVs though.
what sot of smallmindedness has this sort of atitude
Bring it on. This, or mass vandalism aimed at giant 4×4’s. I’m not really bothered which one comes first.
Let’s just start with the Range Rovers and the Ford Raptors and go from there shall we? The others will get the message.
You can write off an entire car with a small axe if you hit the A pillar hard enough.
Now im not a fan of SUV's and i agree that, in general, people these days are selfish but this is nuts. If we change it up.
I once got buzzed by a rodie on a canal towpath. So every time i see an MTB not im going to jump of the spokes to write the wheels off.
(btw i think the idea is a good one for the weight limits and i own a 1800kg estate)
Bit going on here too
Why stop there?
I was thinking about residents parking costs on my way back from my morning swim....
A ten foot car could be a bit cheaper than at present - say £100
Each additional foot and it doubles!
So, an 11 foot car is £200
A 12 foot car is £400
A 13 foot car is £800
A 14 foot car is £1600
A 15 foot car is £3200
a 16 foot car is £6400
etc...
Builders may moan, but little 600 cc japanese trucks have a bigger bed than a massive Vw Marauder or whatever.
The same exponential rates could equally be applied to payment by the hour.
It focusses the mind....