[Closed] Our (level headed) MD saw a "ghost" last week!

I doubt it molgrips

That would be weird like having someone else in your head is it not?

molgrips - Member

Chewkw, are you asking a serious question?

In a way yes but it is so complicated it does not make sense ...

Junkyard - lazarus

I doubt it molgrips

That would be weird like having someone else in your head is it not?

I bow to your expertise on hearing voices in your head

Yes, I knew there would be someone attempting the answer of voices in head thing ... 😆

Your bow is accepted but is it proper 90 degree bow or Bruce Lee's bow?

They still havent managed to prove god doesnt exist though 😉

They still haven't managed to prove:

I'm not God.

I'm not really you and you don't know it.

Elvis wasn't a rhinoceros in disguise.

The Queen isn't a shape shifting Lizard.

You've not quite grasped the concept on being unable to prove negatives, nor that of without a shred of proof there is absolutely no reason to think something might be true.

😉

Rhandi prize still available for anyone who can prove anything supernatural

But if you prove it, it's no longer supernatural! Pretty spooky huh?

Ghosts and stuff? No idea. I'm inclined to think not, but i'm also inclinded to believe science doesn't, and never will have all the answers.

If it exists in your mind then I think you'll agree it exists.

The weirdest thing I've seen which I can't think of any explanation for was in Jerusalem back in 2000. I was having dinner on a restaurant roof terrace overlooking the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount ]Temple Mount[/url] and same what I can only describe as a black beam of light shining from the top of the golden dome straight up into the sky. Others with me saw the same thing. To this day I don't know WTF it was.

Contrail shadow, ATP?

I heard a dead cat once... yeah I know, an effing cat!. The sound came from the table where it died although its body was about 50m away, outside, on the opposite side of the house. My mate heard it too and jumped up saying "what was that", never did tell him about the cat though, so how did we both hear the same thing? No drink or drugs involved, no sleep deprivation and so on... just a plain old table where a cat died half hour before my mate came round... Would love some one to explain it... preferebly not with some thing equally bizzare, like I was staring down a wormhole. 8)

I've told my two tales here more than once, so suffice to say, the first involved some very messed up noises at my bedroom door one morning (like a dragon chewing a herd of pigs) and the second involved someone breathing hard in my ear, in a pitch black 16th century Tuscan villa (where I had previously felt completely comfortable).

No rational explanation for either has ever been suggested to me. No drink, drugs or mental instability...

Doesn't have to be mental instability.. Our brains can do odd things, even healthy ones.

I'm just gonna keep believing something else was going on. No reason my brain should suddenly spaz out and leave me with such a sense of utter dread. That said, I've an open mind for either case.

Plenty of reasons, 10 percent of us will suffer a seizure in our lifetimes. Could quite easily be abnormal electrical activity.

I see dead people.

So me and my mate had a seizure at the same time?

Our brains can do odd things,

Such as?

And boom! I have found evidence!

But according to recent work by neuroscientists, they can be induced by delivering mild electric current to specific spots in the brain. In one woman, for example, a zap to a brain region called the angular gyrus resulted in a sensation that she was hanging from the ceiling, looking down at her body. In another woman, electrical current delivered to the angular gyrus produced an uncanny feeling that someone was behind her, intent on interfering with her actions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/health/psychology/03shad.html?_r=0

Now I just need to find the journal article

So me and my mate had a seizure at the same time?

Infrasound ****ing with your heads or a noise that sounded like a cat?

Awesome! What about magic shrooms? Do they work in a similar fashion?

Infrasound or an actual noise that sounded like a cat?

Produced by?

Would love some one to explain it... preferebly not with some thing equally bizzare, like I was staring down a wormhole.

You heard a cat and remembered about your dead one.

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/6/1820.full

some investigators have observed that LSD-like hallucinogens can enhance pyramidal neuron activity by activating 5-HT2A serotonin receptor signaling (7, 8) (Fig. 1). These findings that hallucinogens activate glutamatergic neurotransmission are consistent with many other studies demonstrating that 5-HT2A receptors were enriched on Layer V glutamatergic neurons (9) although we and others have noted that 5-HT2A receptors are also found on GABA-ergic interneurons (10–12).

In a way, it seems they up regulate neuronal channels that cause hallucinations. Probably not the same pathways as the one I just posted about previously.

Double post

Yes, thats what I said. Heard a cat in a room with no cat. Maybe a cat outside? Three floors down, through double glazing? When my mates jumped up he started looking around and under this table, no where near a window it was on an inside wall. Naaah, sorry but it wasnt another cat... im open minded, but I dont think that was it.

Just googled infrasound. Interesting... example given was a fan emitting frequency of 18.98mhz, caused a peripheral hallucination and anxiety feeling... Its possible. Very coincidental that a low frequency created a sound in me and my mates heads the same as a cat just after a cat died on my table...

Im open minded tbh. Could be "ghosts", could be parrallel worlds or time glitches.... maybe it was just a cat...

Or maybe

Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine.
Sir Arthur EddingtonEnglish astronomer (1882 - 1944)

perhaps the sound was real but it was not made by a dead or invisible cat...I know it sounds preposterous when written down!

Lots of people have heard sounds where others have heard them and thought it was something else though? It's not uncommon, there have been a few occasions with me. Noises that sound like people are in the house, but it's probably just the wind or whatever.

What kind of floor have you got? Is it stone? I've made noises that have made others think I've hurt the dog when I've dragged chairs across it.

Foxes shagging in the bushes?

Let's see:

1) An actual cat
2) A cat like noise
3) A ghost cat.

And you've gone for ghost cat and added some dramatics to your story to justify it.

And you've gone for ghost cat and added some dramatics to your story to justify it.

He's bullshitting us?

Christ almighty, the cynical scientist is strong in this thread. Claiming to be open minded whilst glibly dismissing the entire history of human folklore is pretty small minded in my view.

Human folklore has dragons in it (just like it has faeries and god in it), where are the skeletal remains? You'd have thought George would have kept a few of the bones as trophies.

As others have pointed out, he might appear level headed at work, but his wife certainly doesn't appear to be level headed at home. In fact, your last OP paragraph just blows the whole post out of the water and makes you appear like a gullible idiot. Did you not think about it first?

For your sake I'll just assume you're posting for laughs.

I'd honestly forgotten how unpleasant it could get on here. Thanks for the reminder.

I thought it was the Sales Engineer with the spiritualist wife, not the MD.

One of the most intriguing first hand accounts I've heard was that of an ex GF's father. Back in the mid 70's, they relocated from Merseyside to Farnham in Surrey, moving into a house built in the early 20th C. In one of the two front rooms, he fitted shelves either side of the chimney breast for books.

Apparently, the morning after they had populated the shelves with books, they found a number of books on the floor on the opposite side of the room. Thinking it had been their 2 young daughter's, they told the girls to put the books back if they took them off the shelves and replaced the books. This happened for the next few consecutive day's, their admonishing the girls getting stronger with each day and the girls continuing to protest their innocence.

Both he and his wife were then woken one night to hear aloud banging/thumping noise coming from downstairs and thinking they may have an intruder, went down to this front room where the noise was coming from. He opened the door to see the books flying off the shelves, hitting the opposite wall and falling to the floor, apparently he was hit by one of the books.

Both her mum and dad claim that after removing the shelves the next day, they had no more incidents in the house.

Make of that what you will. He was a down to earth man, not one for frivolous tales and very matter of fact.

Poltergeist?

I used to be a ghost but had to retire after Edward Snowden outed me.

What a shame he didn't leave the shelves up and get someone in from surrey uni to examine what was going on and identify this amazing and potentially useful invisible, spontaneous force. All we need to do is harness that and we'd all have hover bikes.

My father has an excellent ghost story about his time in RAF. I'll not bore you with it here, it's not nearly scientific enough

the cynical scientist is strong in this thread.

Claiming to be open minded whilst glibly dismissing the entire history of human folklore is pretty small minded in my view.

Calling folk you disagree with small minded is small minded as well FWIW as is not putting forward a cogent argument as to why "folk lore" is an accurate reflection of reality. In essence put forward some evidence to support "folk lore" as accurate not just some glib insults that dismiss others views

I've posted this on here before, ( http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/spookystrange-encounters) but I've definitely experienced something that I just cant explain:

"I may have told this one before.

20 years ago. December, cold and dark outside. At mum and dads. Fell asleep in my old room in the attic, woke up about half 5 with my mum calling me down for dinner.

Went down the stairs, was about to turn left into the kitchen, glanced left, there's my dad standing in the living room doorway,facing away from me, staring into the room. Something odd about the way he was standing made me pause for a minute and stare. Couldn't place it somehow, like he was looking at something terrible on the TV.

Turned and went into the kitchen, there's dad eating his dinner- turned around- no figure in the living room doorway any more.
A little shocked, I mention it to mum and dad- dad looks surprised- mum doesn't. Claims she's been seeing a male figure around the house for years (not my dad).

18 months later and we're waiting for the undertakers to set up my brother's coffin in the living room after his death 2 days before in a motorbike accident. They leave, closing the living room door discreetly and leaving us to it.

We're all in the kitchen, and dad takes the first step. He walks to the living room door, opens it, but stands there, unable to continue. I'm a few steps behind, and walk past him. As I do so, crapping my pants, I think- where and when did I seen him standing like that before?"

Make of it what you will!

[i]I think you mean folk who require objective evidence and I am not sure why yo use this as an insult tbh[/i]

Because there's more than an hint of dismissivness in your posts of the folk who don't set themselves the same evidence levels that you do?

I'm guessing...

Stayed in this bothy once. It was supposed to be haunted by the ghost of some girl murdered there. It was a helluva creepy place in the pitch black. There was always this sense of "something" there that made your hairs stand up. I took the picture (attached) as we were leaving. The others didnt even want to look back at the place. I swear i could see something in the window. Even the picture creeps me out...

[img] [/img]

@ nick c I disagree so of course I am dismissive of the argument to some degree as I think it is incorrect. However that did not answer my question of why wanting objective and verifiable evidence is used an insult or why its wrong
What are we meant to do just ask folk what they think and then we just assume its true ? is this really a better approach?
You might want to read the history of psychology as to why this [introspection]is a bad idea and leads to inaccurate [self] reports - amusingly we can demonstrate this empirically 😉

I'm reading a book called The Believing Brain by Michael Shermer. It's absolutely bloody amazing. There are strong links between brain chemistry and whether or not we believe in the paranormal or conspiracy theories.

I recommend anyone who joins in threads like these or the religion threads read it.

Junky, don't worry, it's probably more about the tone my inner voice applies to your posts, they come over as a little bit condescending sometimes is all. ( I know you don't mean them to be)

Science is great and massively important, but ghost stories are an important folk lore regarding our past, the people that populate them, and fragility of human existence. They're silly, probably explainable but nevertheless enduring, and that requires explanation and understanding not high handed rejection

The debate should perhaps be not " do ghost exist" but " why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist"

I know you don't mean them to be

I have no problems with learning the moral/spiritual or other messages from folklore be it Beowulf or fairy stories/myths/legends but I do if I am expected to believe the charcters are real.

And that's the problem with ghost stories, in lots if them the people [i]were[/i] real.

Humans need to know. Always have always will, and the question "what, if anything, happens after the body dies" is one of the last enduring unknowns. It wasn't that long ago that scientists were weighing people as they died so that they could record the weight of the soul leaving the body...

We know so much, and it sometimes only serves to underline how little we understand

Look up hypnopompic and hypnagogic hallucinations. Actually pretty common, and very, very realistic for the people that have them. Also helps to explain why most 'ghost' sightings happen at night and are usually experienced by a solitary person. Unless you've done research and have found out that what you are having are these type of hallucinations, you would think that what you were seeing where ghosts. These aren't seizures, it's simply a failure of the brain to quickly distinguish between sleep and awake. They can also last for up to a minute, even when you feel fully awake and your heart in is your mouth pumping adrenaline because you can't believe what you are seeing. Lots of people see spiders crawling on walls that aren't there etc etc, but many people see people - such as a stranger sitting on the end of the bed etc. Some are extreme hallucinations that last for what seems like a long time, some are mild. The film Fight Club plays on a similar idea.

The debate should perhaps be not " do ghost exist" but " why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist"

Easy. People like to believe there is more to life than there is. Imagination. That and...

'Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.' Albert Einstein

'Most people would rather die than think; in fact they do so.' Bernard Russell

'…those who latch on to an unreasonable notion and thereafter refuse to listen to any further discussion of it have problems that are more amenable to psychiatry than to argument.' Jeff Cooper

'Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.' Sir Winston Churchill

'The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own.' Dunning-Kruger

'Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.' Samuel Langhorne Clemens

The debate should perhaps be not " do ghost exist" but " why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist"

There's a fair bit of psychology research into why people seem to enjoy being frightened, whether that's roller coasters, horror movies or ghost stories. Thats one possible contributing factor to the persistence of the scary ghost story.

The debate should perhaps be not " do ghost exist" but " why, given our wide understanding of the world do these stories persist"
Easy. People like to believe there is more to life than there is. Imagination. That and...
'Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.' Albert Einstein
'Most people would rather die than think; in fact they do so.' Bernard Russell
'…those who latch on to an unreasonable notion and thereafter refuse to listen to any further discussion of it have problems that are more amenable to psychiatry than to argument.' Jeff Cooper
'Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.' Sir Winston Churchill
'The skills needed to produce logically sound arguments, for instance, are the same skills that are necessary to recognize when a logically sound argument has been made. Thus, if people lack the skills to produce correct answers, they are also cursed with an inability to know when their answers, or anyone else's, are right or wrong. They cannot recognize their responses as mistaken, or other people's responses as superior to their own.' Dunning-Kruger
'Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.' Samuel Langhorne Clemens

I realise you've probably given yourself an erection quoting all those from memory. I'm sure you wouldn't google it. Tbh, I'm strangely aroused myself, but has it crossed your mind that humans kinda like telling stories?

Tucker quoting like that just makes you look like a slave to other people's ideas 🙂

Ok,, I would have to say something inside me believes there is something that carries on after we die, some form of energy

Lots of things carry on after we die. The orbit of the Earth around the sun, that'll keep going. Other people will keep living their lives.

In much the same way, things happened before you were born.

You are a brief ordering of atoms and energy. After you die, that energy and matter will go on to do something else. It won't go on to be a ghost though.

my mind is open to all possibilities

It is possible that ghosts are real. It is also possible that gods exist. Or that a specific god exists. Or that leprechauns are real. Or the Loch Ness monster.

It's just that none of these things are very probable.

It's good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out.

It's good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out.

😆

Tim Minchin gets the credit for that, not me 🙂

Very good organic

"It's good to have an open mind, but if you open it too much your brain will fall out." - Frankenstein

user_removed

I've told my two tales here more than once, so suffice to say, the first involved some very messed up noises at my bedroom door one morning (like a dragon chewing a herd of pigs) and the second involved someone breathing hard in my ear, in a pitch black 16th century Tuscan villa (where I had previously felt completely comfortable).

No rational explanation for either has ever been suggested to me. No drink, drugs or mental instability...

Were you in bed asleep, about to sleep, or just woken from sleep at any time?

When you are in and out of light sleep, different parts of your brain wake up at different times, give you some quite weird dreams, sounds and visions.

I get it quite a lot, I'm quite a light sleeper. When I get a cold that effects sleep a bit more, some of the dreams and visions I have range from hilarious to pant-shittingly-scary.

On more than one occasion I have woken up screaming trying to punch the air - if I wasn't a rational thinker it would be simple to attach this to haunting, but luckily I understand how sleeping and the brain works.

The last one I had was a few weeks ago (had a nasty cold at the time) - two figures walked into my room and proceeded to sort of poke and grab at me. I was trying to punch the figures but my body was frozen solid. I then suddenly woke up, shot upright and gave the curtain one of my finest right hooks. 😆

It's just the part of my brain that's responsible for movement being asleep, in combination with my brain being active DURING sleep, with probably my eyes and vision being awake explaining why I was so vividly in my room.

Have had all sorts of things like that. Used to properly freak my GF out at the start. Have on occasion told her "It's alright, they've left now" and other horror film-esqe style stuff whilst in states of light sleep.

I did sleepwalk on occasion as a child (not much tho, maybe 3 or 4 incidents total) - that's a totally bizarre feeling - walking around with your eyes awake so you're *aware* of where you are, but you're unable to direct your body or do anything. Parents once asked me what I was doing, I replied in a clear and calm manner: "I have no idea." 😆

All part of the complexities of the brain.

EDIT: One of my more funnier dreams I remember was being in a supermarket with a stretch-horse (like a stretch limousine), but the floor was water and you had to walk over crocodiles. My brain is awesome.

Maybe it was this guy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24486718

Explain that, Science Dudes !

Can we give the pseudo scientific debate a rest and just have some good old fashioned ghost stories please? That's what I paid for when I came in.

I realise you've probably given yourself an erection quoting all those from memory.

Worse than that, I have them saved in a favorite quotes document. The erection just come form sitting here stroking myself.

The science dudes aren't the one claiming to be able to explain it 🙂

Tucker quoting like that just makes you look like a slave to other people's ideas

Damn good job I don't care how others perceive me then isn't it?

Explain that, Science Dudes !

Nothing to do with science, it's a law issue.

What I don't get, is despite the exponential rise in high quality audio and video recording devices to the point practically everyone on the planet carries one all the time, there is no corresponding rise in evidence of ghosts, ufo's, bigfoot, santa etc etc.

Could someone just telepathically transfer their reading of all these posts to me as I cannae be arsed.

As Stephen Fry once asked; if there are Ghosts why only humans? Many more animals have died on the planet than humans so by law of averages there ought to be loads of them too...

Buildings can creep you out because of minor temperature changes which your body picks up on and your most basic feral instinct reacts to. Buildings also emit a great deal of noise/vibration that ordinarily you may not notice or dismiss when they are full of people. Rocks, stones and mansonry have massively different chemical compostions even if they look the same to the naked eye so they expand contract and have diferent heat retention properties.

@Organic it was good but it's not right!

Both her mum and dad claim that after removing the shelves the next day, they had no more incidents in the house.

Now, this is the dodgiest part of this story. Why on earth, when faced with a genuine reproducable example of paranormal activity, wouldn't you get on the blower to the nearest university/crackpot instutution and get some experts round to set up monitoring and figure out what the hell was going on?

I know I would!

if there are Ghosts why only humans? Many more animals have died on the planet than humans so by law of averages there ought to be loads of them too

Animals don't have enough psychic energy to maintain a spectral form, obviously! Duh, some people 🙄

I think you are wrong molly I heard you can only see ghosts that are the same species as you as that is your "astral " plane

Dogs see dogs cats see cats humans see humans

Its obvious when you think about it

there is no corresponding rise in evidence of ghosts, ufo's, bigfoot, santa etc etc.

wow wow wow, back up there - no evidence of santa??? what are trying to tell me? what about the glass of sherry, carrot and mince pie we leave out? he ALWAYS eats them.... ALWAYS..

Well kids Xmas is cancelled. 🙁

wow wow wow, back up there - no evidence of santa???

Relax - we've already agreed that nobody can categorically prove that Santa doesn't exist. So all the evidence in folklore, presents mysteriously arriving on Dec 25th, mince pies and glasses of sherry must prove (to the open minded 😉 ) that he's real.

ETA - carrots??? Forget that! Leave him another mince pie and you might get the XBox.

carrots???

GHOSTS EXIST - FACT
[img] [/img]

Its obvious when you think about it

Oh yeah of course, silly me.

So what are those headless horsemen ghosts riding then?

Organic,
what are we looking at in that picture?

EDIT 😀

Dogs see dogs cats see cats humans see humans

I think ghost humans can see ghost horses though.
[img] [/img]

damn you scientists

You'll be telling me next that aliens dont exist!

Nah!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/10321227/Alien-life-found-living-in-Earths-atmosphere-claims-scientist.html

Ah right. So science eventually catches up with the 'lore then 8)

It's almost certain that aliens (other lifeforms) exist out there somewhere. However, they might just be single celled. Or a fluid. Or maybe a gas.

Worth reading the fictional book The Sphere for some great thoughts on this.

So science eventually catches up with the 'lore then

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 😉

[img] [/img]

miketually - Member
ok,, I would have to say something inside me believes there is something that carries on after we die, some form of energy
Lots of things carry on after we die. The orbit of the Earth around the sun, that'll keep going. Other people will keep living their lives.

In much the same way, things happened before you were born.

You are a brief ordering of atoms and energy. After you die, that energy and matter will go on to do something else. It won't go on to be a ghost though.

You knew what I meant, too many wanna be scientists on here 🙄