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it's better to cross the bridge and engage directly with those involved... that engage with those underneath who don't.
Eh? What does that mean in English?
And how is it an answer to the question I asked as to why it would be prudent, needful, canny and obvious for Standard Life to move to London if Scotland went independent?
48 days to go....
What does that mean in English?
he is saying i am a troll and he wont answer me and he will just ignore me as I am an idiot who cannot understand what he says , its a well know pedagogy for teachers to blame the pupil when their answers are not understood and I commend his use of it:roll:
Its rather ironic I am the only who can follow and I am the one he wont engage with .
Its ironic you ignore what they publicly say as you had a chat.
It is rather ironic your "evidence" is they are publicly being liars and being publicly deceitful but you have private evidence.
Now if AS saod this what would you say to him THM?
I do so admire the way you have principles and stand by them
KB it clearly does not answer your question either but he might now think you are a troll seeing as you have asked him a question he cannot answer. Perhaps he will say you are stupid ? who knows but stay tuned for the next instalment of THM plays the man.
KB - good questions! When I get a mo I will try and paraphrase - currency, supervision, regulation and asset flight are good starting points though. The banks are doing it in a slightly different manner - depends more on legal status - branch v subsidiary.
So is Standard Life being deceitful then thm with its statement saying "we are not looking for a London based HQ"
Dr D you would be well advised to take a very long spoon to your next luncheon
You will be more aware than me of how (in general) Scottish enterprises are attempting to remain neutral in public. Of course, behind the scenes many (especially in the financial sector) are making the appropriate contingency plans (canny folk). According to a study today/yesterday however (I will link later), the majority are simply assuming a NO and are not planning.
You can take your own view on whether that means a company is being deceitful or not. I am more concerned with whether they are being prudent.
Well with you being as well informed as you are impartial I'd thought you might make it clear Thm .Are standard life seeking an HQ in London ? Yes or no.
piemonster - Member
The really disappointing thing about all this is just how piss poor and populist the politics is despite the importance. One of my main hopes of this referendum is a reinvigoration of the electorate to participate in the democratic process.But the underlying quality of politicians is so piss poor that I don't see it lasting beyond a couple if elections regardless of the result. It's just the same * cheap shot, point scoring, self serving toss that we've been having for years.
*, by and large.
POSTED 6 DAYS AGO # REPORT-POST
piemonster - Member
I seem to be settling into middle aged grumpiness quite well.POSTED 6 DAYS AGO # REPORT-POST
bencooper - Member
I'm going for middle-aged saying-random-stuff-to-wind-people-up
😆
C'mon Gordi, get with the game. It's bad enough spelling contingency without having to provide a dictionary as well.
Are Scottish based financial firms making contingency plans in case of a silly decision - YES.
The "neighs" have it.
There is plenty of non-political analysis of the impact of a bad result on the financial services industry. Just google it.....
It's bad enough spelling contingency without having to provide a dictionary as well.
He plays the man again, he does not answer the question again. Perhaps KB will get lucky if you find the time.
[1]Are Scottish based financial firms making contingency plans in case of a silly decision - YES.[2]The "neighs" have it.
[1]Financial institutions and other businesses would always make plans based on large electoral changes be it govt or this or legislative change. that is prudent [ see what i did there 😉 ]
[2] It does not indicate what their position is on the issue as they remain neutral so that is just not true. Planning does not indicate support for either position and it is foolish, illogical and incorrect to claim otherwise.
Regarding SL it is terrible[ but not surprsing] to see you commend their deceit [ even though you could not quite bring yourself to accept it was and left it to us to decide why can you not just say yes or no are you a politicians ?] whilst saying this deceit was prudent.
195 pages of your acronyms for the DO and then you approve of "your chums" deceit. The word for that is hypocrisy or lack of principle.
So playing the man, illogical and bereft of principle
FWIW I wish i did not have to "troll" like this but really THM this is really poor form.
😀
MM so trying to bluff your way through , not the best defence I will ever see. Then again what defence can be offered seeing as we can all read.
Why not start by saying how you answered the question and did not play the man
Then explain how your conclusion was true
Finally explain why deceit is now ok
Of course you will run away to "save face"
Bon Chance
I never asked you to spell contingency though you have done so very well 10/10 for spelling.
I did ask you a specific question ,unfortunately you seem to have chosen to answer another question entirely 0/10.
Thank you for your kind offer of a dictionary but I have several already .
Thank you.
Phew, that's good news.
Out of interest why are you asking ME about the HQ? Leave that to trolls. I have answered the relevant question - re contingency planning. I don't need to answer a question about something else, that I never claimed.
I appreciate that you have to go beyond the typically misleading headline in the link. The article is much clearer. HTH. The issue of HQ would depend on whether important unanswered questions are finally addressed. So far the DO continues to duck these issues, ergo, financial institutions make contingency plans including looking at that nice office at 100 Cheapside.
It really is v simple. For those who can read..
Chief executive David Nish also said that Standard Life had started to register companies in England as part of [b]its contingency plans. [/b]However, the firm has consistently refused to say where they would base themselves if Scotland gains independence....The 100 Cheapside construction project, which could go for as much as £110 million, would offer 86,600 square feet of space when it is finished this autumn. However, it could also occupy it without designating it as its headquarters.
Decamp S of the border, contingency planning....QED. Thank goodness we can all read.
Anyway good deflect from the bankers views on the DO being deceitful!
Bien joue!
A Standard Life spokesman said: "We cannot comment on individual deals as we manage a large portfolio of properties on behalf of our clients, but we can confirm that we are not looking for a London-based HQ."
[between the lines]"But there are plenty of other places in England..."[/between the lines]
Strange when strange things come true isn't it....
http://www.scotsman.com/scottishindependence/standard-life-may-be-scouting-post-independence-london-hq/
Wouldn't have beenThm that posted that Link to an article which wrongly claims that Standard life were looking for an HQ in London.
Must have been that other fella Dolittle I think he's a deceitful one.
C'mon Gordi, get with the game 2x, click the link and read it (as you have). As made very clear above, you very often have to read the article rather than the headlines (I have mentioned that before too).
I have even quoted sections from it. It is very clear and we can all read. I even did you the favour of quoting from it. My first comment (recently) on this was in page 185. Pls tell me where since then I have mentioned an HQ? (Hint, you won't be able to, hence it's a question that doesn't deserve or need an answer from me)
There is a common theme between what Nish and I have said - contingency plans and the movement of parts of the business as may be required. No H, no Q. Canny man, making clear and prudent comments.
EDIT :
I would be more worried if I worked at Standard Life and wanted to still live in lovely Edinburgh. As you will/should be aware the CEO has other v important things to consider (regulation, money etc) and no surprise at all that relocation considerations are high on the agenda. I would be dismayed if he wasn't making sensible plans. But you are not the only one to poo-poo such ideas, the DO did the same when Nish commented on this back in February. But the truth, they are planning for this exact eventuality.100 Cheapside is quite a nice office though.
THM page 194 follow up post to the one quoted below
Please explain how this is just about contingency plans - Go on should be a good one
Yours the troll 🙄
ORIGINAL POST: Steady there gordi all though this post happened on page 194 and you challenged it on that page and I did not say anything till this page it is still the case I am trolling him.
It's definitely not the case he is trying to move the goal posts
Back under your bridge or something 😉
wanmankylung - Member
Fortunately, the CEO of my pension provider will decamp S of the border if required.
What a strange thing to say. Given that very few businesses have indicated that they will move to rUK in the event of a yes vote (probably because it would involve much more expense than it would justify) the only sensible way for the CEO and his team to move south would be if they were no longer working for your pension provider.
[THM replies]Strange when strange things come true isn't it....http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/osbourne-says-no-to-currency-union/page/194#post-6193474
It would take some serious deceit to claim you were talking about contingency plans even more deceit that is required to move the goal posts or to claim that contingency planning proves they support a no vote.
Blaming me for this when it all took place on the other page ...priceless
[i]teamhurtmore[/i]
it's pretty obvious what they need and will do - they are if nothing else prudent and canny.
[i]konabunny[/i]
why exactly is it obvious, prudent, canny and needful to relocate the company from Edinburgh to London in the event of independence?
[i]teamhurtmore[/i]
I have answered the relevant question - re contingency planning. I don't need to answer a question about something else, that I never claimed.
😥
An H?
A Q?
Anywhere?
No I thought not. Back under the bridge.
Nish is very clear that he has contingency plans to move whatever part of the operations are required. Very clear. The only thing that isn't is what yS are actually planning. The industry bodies continue to ask for clarification but the DO doesn't think it's important.
KB, good point on the reasons I didn't have time to follow up on that, apologies. I will try to find the link but the clue is in the fact that we are even having the discussions. SL wouldn't be wasting time if there were no issues. There are the SL comments and the Scottish industry board. I will dig them out. To late now.
As a favour, it's page 8 of the annual report. It's won't copy on an iPad I'm afraid. But it clarifies the desire to remain politically neutral (hence the paper stuff), lists several areas of concern and describes contingency plans. Oh and surprise, surprise, no H, no Q to be seen. Funny that!!!
Standard Life ‘may be scouting post-independence London HQ’
NEWS: Standard Life, one of the main employers in Edinburgh’s financial services industry, is reportedly scouting locations for a possible London move after independence.
Scottish investment giant Standard Life has been reportedly looking at buying a possible headquarters in London in the event that Scotland gains independence in September.
The Edinburgh-based firm, which employs 5,000 people in Scotland, has been in secret discussions with Quadrant Estates and other property investors about potentially buying a massive office block in the City of London at 100 Cheapside, according to property magazine Estates Gazette.
Read More at Huffington Post
That's the whole article you linked to Thm could you show me where it mentions contingency plans?
Already done Gordi, already done. Do remember that you insisted everyone was aware of the HP bit, we even joked about it. But hey, papers. Much better to stick to the horses mouth or the annual report. QED, you have proved my point thanks very much. Others were struggling with it.
teamhurtmore - Member
[b]The horses mouth is better than the press BTW.[/b]
POSTED 17 HOURS AGO #
Sleep well. 😉
Bluff,bluster and bs Thm or maybe just plain deceit. Sleep well yourself.
Find me an H, find me a Q? I look forward to seeing them in the morning! *
Sleep well (again) 😉
* try not to spend too long, beauty sleep is much better.
(Don't forget when the DO resorts to any of the 3Bs he has lost the argument. It's a giveaway)
[quote=gordimhor said]Bluff,bluster and bs Thm or maybe just plain deceit. Sleep well yourself.
We can all read what he said on here and we all know what he meant
His attempt at portraying it as anything else is rather pathetic
FWIW you can always tell when he accepts this as he adds pointless smileys to cover up his embarrassment at what he is posting.
Look, it is very simple. THM has privileged information about SL straight from the HA, but you have to read BTL to understand it. Meanwhile AS's plans for a CU are FUBAR or perhaps SNAFU though probably not as those aren't TLAs, and we all know how much THM like a good TLA especially if it's a TLA which makes everyone else say WTF.
Oh, almost forgot:
😉
HA = Horses Arse?
just as an aside, Standard Life might well be interested in buying an office block in London - the industry gossip might be right. but that might be for one of its funds and they're not interested in occupying the space themselves.
equally, just because you move the formal HQ to London, it doesn't mean you have to move everyone down there. London office space is expensive - you'd probably keep many staff in a provincial location like Edinburgh or Leeds or something.
it takes years to move a big office across town, let alone intercity.
this whole thing might just be about Standard Life pressuring the Yes not to get too enthusiastic about financial sector regulatory reform.
who knows? (apart from teamhurtmore)
It helps when you know when senior executives (not SL in this case) are already checking school places and houses in S England too! But again, that's the inside track! Residential property is less canny.
KB, did you check out the annual report? It's the bottom of page 8. No need to speculate, it's all clear. The good news Ben it that you only have to read the lines, forget what's in between them.
Still no HQ I see, but an amusing H and A!!!! I like that one Ben. You forget that a lot of the DO's utterances are NSFW!!
"Who knows"? Anyone who can read - apparently we can all do that. Odd then that things have to made up (HQ) just so that they can be disagreed with. Still the same thing happened with monetary policy and will happen again. All rather sad and desperate but quite fitting when we are talking about the yS campaign I suppose?
The copy bit works, so in the non flowery language of an annual report a few months back we get....
We have a long-standing policy of strict political neutrality and at no time will we advise people on how they should vote. However, we have a duty and a responsibility to understand the implications of independence for our four million UK customers, our shareholders, our people and other stakeholders in our business and take whatever action is necessary to protect their interests.
For this reason, we have engaged with key politicians and analysed the relevant papers published by both sides of the independence debate. These include the Scottish Government publication Scotland’s Future (the ‘White Paper’) and the UK Government’s Scotland Analysis series.
At the time of publishing this report (February 2014), we believe [b]a number of material issues remain uncertain[/b]. These include:
• The currency that an independent Scotland would use
• Whether agreement and ratification of an independent Scotland’s membership to the European Union would be achieved by the
target date (currently 24 March 2016)
• The shape and role of the monetary system
• The arrangements for financial services regulation and consumer protection in an independent Scotland
• The approach to individual taxation, especially around savings and pensions, as a consequence of any constitutional change.
We will continue to seek clarity on these matters, but uncertainty is likely to remain. [b]In view of this, there are steps we will take based on our analysis of the risks. [/b]For example, we have started work to establish additional registered companies to operate outside Scotland, into which we could transfer parts of our operations [b]if it was necessary to do so. [/b]This is a precautionary measure to ensure continuity of our businesses’ competitive position and to protect the interests of our stakeholders. As Chief Executive, my commitment is whatever happens, we will continue to serve the needs of our customers and maintain our competitive position
If it walks like contingency planning, looks like contingency planning and smells like contingency planning, good chance that it is contingency planning! Could be wrong though......
Ah I see you were talking about contingency planning that's why you linked to an article that doesn't mention contingency planning at all, but does wrongly claim that Standard Life are looking for a new HQ.
Gordi, feel free to read the article in full or the quote I attached above (if pressed for time). Then note what I have and have not said (still no H or Q). It will save us all a lot of time. You may find that I have mentioned contingency planning rather a lot!
Of course what you end up having to move will depend on the vote and the response. Exactly what SL and others are saying. In the meantime, they are doing what is necessary and in answer to another previous question about why, the final line from the annual report says it all. That's why he is CEO and paid a few £m!
Then note what I have and have not said (still no H or Q)
we have both quoted you saying it shall we do it again
it is just not true for you to back pedal and claim you were saying that they were making contingency plans you are quite clearly suggesting that it is a HQ move - check the url name and the link to see what it says not one mention oc=f contingency but two of HQ 😳
no one is going to believe you on this and you will look, amazingly, worse if you continue with his transparent denial
wanmankylung - Member
Fortunately, the CEO of my pension provider will decamp S of the border if required.
What a strange thing to say. Given that very few businesses have indicated that they will move to rUK in the event of a yes vote (probably because it would involve much more expense than it would justify) the only sensible way for the CEO and his team to move south would be if they were no longer working for your pension provider.
[THM replies] Strange when strange things come true isn't it....
THE LINK
> http://www.scotsman.com/scottish-independence/standard-life-may-be-scouting-post-independence-london-hq/
ALL one post
reply to Gordi [ though apparently I started this and you ignore trolls]
teamhurtmore - Member
Security and returns are the most important parameters personally. I would be more worried if I worked at Standard Life and wanted to still live in lovely Edinburgh. As you will/should be aware the CEO has other v important things to consider (regulation, money etc) and no surprise at all that relocation considerations are high on the agenda. I would be dismayed if he wasn't making sensible plans. But you are not the only one to poo-poo such ideas, the DO did the same when Nish commented on this back in February. But the truth, they are planning for this exact eventuality.100 Cheapside is quite a nice office though.
Still not such a stage thing to say after all, was it?
You really want to say you are not saying that they will move in this post ? REALLY. No one is going to believe you THM
[img] 
[/img]
PS could you explain to me how that statement - especially the bit where they say they are politically neutral - supports your claim
Are Scottish based financial firms making contingency plans in case of a silly decision - YES.The "neighs" have it.
As i said it does not and it was yet another piece of ...how do we say it politely enough again? Incorrect with the facts and the logic is non existent in the "argument".
I suspect another play the man as it is obvious what you have done here
So, THm you quote from an annual report which is not a part of the article you linked to ..... 😆
Money and business is neutral.
If some businesses move out of Scotland because their high heid yins don't like operating in a democracy, other businesses will grab the opportunities provided.
It does make sense that contingency plans are made by business. They no doubt do the same each general election.
In 48 days we will know for sure.
That is brilliant! If you are hung up about the headline in a link ffs (nearly always misrepresent an article) then so be it. I have been consistent and clear. Contingency plans are being put in place as they should. What they do finally is a function of the result and if the FS industry ever gets the answers to the questions it needs. Good luck guys!
In the meantime they will and are doing what they need to do.
So Gordi, have you ready the article? You were at pains to ensure that no one failed to link though to the HP bit (from which I quoted clearly) Still waiting for the H or the Q,
En attendant Godot encore.
Awesome trolling to enjoy over coffee - a true mastery of the art and hugely entertaining. Thank goodness for freedom of speech.
If you are hung up about the headline in a link ffs (nearly always misrepresent an article) then so be it.
Do explain how it misrepresented the article and how it is talking about contingency planning- utter bobbins of a claim
Standard Life ‘may be scouting post-independence London HQ’NEWS: Standard Life, one of the main employers in Edinburgh’s financial services industry, is reportedly scouting locations for a possible London move after independence.
Scottish investment giant Standard Life has been reportedly looking at buying a possible headquarters in London in the event that Scotland gains independence in September.
The Edinburgh-based firm, which employs 5,000 people in Scotland, has been in secret discussions with Quadrant Estates and other property investors about potentially buying a massive office block in the City of London at 100 Cheapside, according to property magazine Estates Gazette.
STOP DIGGING
You followed it up by suggesting they were moving in numerous posts [ cited] and you, and everyone else, knows it
No one is misrepresenting the article though you are desperately and tragically trying to do so.
I have been consistent and clear
Yes you consistently move the goal posts and denying saying what you have clearly said and then insist you were right despite the evidence
You are indeed consistent and clear but you are not correct.
My lord that is like me claiming i use excellent grammar. Very funny though as I am amazed you wish to argue this [ and you say I troll]
Still waiting for the H or the Q,
No one has claimed the article you cited days later says this and it was not what anyone was discussing as it had not been cited.
It doe snot say they will move the HQ you said it by citing an article then said you did not say it whilst saying we misrepresent the article.
I am still waiting for you to explain why their stated position of political neutrality proves the neighs have it. That really should be easy to do eh- you teach logic and I am excited to see your working.
Chuckles
Playing the man and crying troll is not fooling anyone and it it does not turn your fanciful account of this thread or the "logic" of neutrality " proving the neighs have it" it into fact
TBH i am surprised that you have the bare faced cheek to carry on with this and claim you have been consistent in all of this
none so blind as those who cannot see
😀 awesome and masterful.
I used to work for Standard Life. Records Manager. Did a scanning project for the SLI property investment dept. Standard Life already own a considerable amount of property in London, bit of a journalist made up story I think.
The copy bit works, so in the non flowery language of an annual report a few months back we get....
...nothing that suggests it would be canny, needful, obvious and whatever the other one was to move the offices from Edinburgh to London in the event of independence.
Better sack the CEO in that is the case. Fancy him wasting time on contingency planning. Not surprisingly, I wouldn't support that view.
bit of a journalist made up story I think.
Nope it is about making contingency plans as THM "proved" some days later with a totally different report and quote that states political neutrality which proves the neighs have it.
Will you please keep up or he will call you names and ignore your points.
Ditto KB - he has already proved that remember he said so and of course he never even remotely said they were relocating and if you say that it is because you are misrepresenting the article [ cited above] or his posts [ cited above], only a troll could argue otherwise....apparently.
I feel for you THM as everyone posting is trolling you.
Random smiley, faux sarcasm , blissful [ wilful] denial.
Sounds like a dick move.
he spoke business sense from what I read and it was all direct quotes
he is not into risk and will mitigate it basically to stay in the EU so he wont risk England [ I assume he means rUK]
With Endura selling much of the cycling equipment it produces overseas, his key concern is Scotland's continuing membership of the European Union.Mr McFarlane said: "We have multiple bank accounts and deal in multiple currencies, so something like currency is less of an issue for us.
"What we are primarily concerned about is having continued, unbroken membership of the European Union (EU).
"From this site here we dispatch a couple of hundred orders a day to bike shops across Europe.
"We're concerned about what would happen if there was any break in smooth trading with the EU."
He added: "I'm not saying we wouldn't get in but there is substantial uncertainty about when we would get in and what the terms would be.
"That's too much uncertainty for us.To just believe it will all be OK isn't a risk we're willing to accept.
"So, if there is a vote for independence on September 18, on September 19 we will start making arrangements to relocate within the EU, and that would most likely be to the Czech Republic."
Mr McFarlane said: "We wouldn't relocate to England because if Scotland was independent it would almost certainly have a Conservative government and that then triggers a referendum on EU membership."
He continued: "I wouldn't say it's going to destroy the company, the company would continue to trade because it would adapt.
"But I would rather keep the jobs in Scotland and we would probably lose about 25 to 30 jobs out of Scotland to the Czech Republic."
I can see it now. Post-yes vote, business will be booming with banks and countries lining up to lend newly independent Scotland with loans a la Africa.
The effeminate short-one will proclaim that business is booming and the future is growth from his ivory towers, then blame a subsequent collapse on the way the English pulled the rug/and services from under the proud Scots feet.
Piss off, sling your hook. Your either fully with us or gone. No devolution bollocks. Bye.
Personally I'm no weary of the whole thing. Even if its a big NO there will be village political idiots calling for a future vote or pushing hard for independence in all but name.
Just get it done with- go. Let all those jobs in Scotland that are there for us English come down and be based here serving us from people employed from us.
"We wouldn't relocate to England because if Scotland was independent it would almost certainly have a Conservative government and that then triggers a referendum on EU membership."
Even if referendum result is No, history tells us that that won't have much of an effect on make up of future Westminster Government and likelihood of a EU referendum.
Hora , why don't you just go? GFY!
Piss off, sling your hook. Your either fully with us or gone. No devolution bollocks. Bye.
Despite your obvious diplomatic skills hora your services as chief negotiator won't be required and not only will Scotland continue to enjoy devolved power but it will in fact have increased autonomy, whatever the result of the referendum.
rene59 - Member
> http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/eudura-boss-ill-move-part-of-company-out-of-scotland-if-theres-yes-vote.1406897703Sounds like a dick move.
I'm happy to see that. I'm fed up of the stitching on the seams unravelling on my Endura stuff, but I like to buy Scottish (and British) where I can.
So his company can join the boycott list. 🙂
Good to see more obvious humour returning to the thread. Note to self, SOH, appreciation of (not that subtle) wordplay and knowledge of equine noises not required for life under a bridge. Woosh!
Now where's the crossword for the way home? Hopefully less sweaty now.
Talking of subtle or unsubtle wordplay, interesting to see what RB[b]S [/b]had to say...
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28600549
Adds RBS to the list....
glad you dont just save the crosswords for me.
Insulting me still wont alter the facts which are still as stated by every other poster on here bar you.
Is that BBC article supposed to be some negative report into the prospects of an iScotland?
What do you reckon?
That it's not.
That's a relief then. RBS doesn't need to worry about materially adverse effects then. Save them doing any contingency planning like Lloyd's and SL then. Phew.
If RBS, Lloyds, and SL have any sense. They'll be well prepared for any foreseeable scenarios leading to "materially adverse effects" and not just those potentially developing from an iScotland. There will inevitably be negative consequences of independence. But there's nothing in that article that in any way ramps up the risks of those negative consequences beyond what is already known.
Do you reckon they might be looking at any new office space?
Odd, then that they make specific reference to independence. Maybe that was a typo?
But pm, you are spot on, the negative consequences have been well known for a long time. Almost 7k pages ago even,
Do you reckon they might be looking at any new office space?
Maybe, doesn't mean they're going to take it.
Odd, then that they make specific reference to independence. Maybe that was a typo?
I could find you an article involving RBS without a mention to Scottish independence. Not that there's anything particularly damning in the one you linked too.
But pm, you are spot on, the negative consequences have been well known for a long time. Almost 7k pages ago even,
I don't think you'll find too many yes voters on here unaware of the risks. But they might not accept those risks as being unavoidable consequences. Nothing is without risk, not even the safest bet. You're not going to changes peoples mind by saying "ooooh that could possibly be risky, I mean depending on the unknown mitigating circumstances at the time, which I can't accurately predict"
There's sod all in that article that ramps up the risk.
Indeed RBS said the same thing a while back as did Scot Life. The no argument was obvious from the start.
I don't think you'll find too many yes voters on here unaware of the risks
Almost 7k of posts suggests otherwise. But it would be unreasonable to expect this not to be the case, when the yS campaign has involved a deliberate policy of misrepresenting risk. Not since the Euro project have we seen political vanity projects being driven by such clear deceit and on such a scale. Instead of identifying and mitigating risk there is a deliberate policy to misrepresent, hide and ignore it. The same thing happened with Europe and the youth in the periphery states are paying the cost.
So it's not just here that this deceit is recognised and highlighted especially in relation to the head of the vanity project. We have had eminent financial figures (Sir Martin Jacomb and Sir Andrew Large) using the same language this week, noting how "the first minister is not being honest over what they say is the most important issue in the independence debate."
If that was not enough we now have the former SNP Lord Provost encouraging the DO to abandon the call for independence (the DO ability to unite so many different people against him continues to amaze)
A former SNP Lord Provost yesterday appealed to Alex Salmond to “slam on the brakes” of his independence campaign because he has “no answers” about a separate Scotland’s currency or EU membership. Alex Murray, the SNP’s first Lord Provost of Perth and a party member for 53 years, has written to the First Minister urging him to drop independence in favour of Scotland remaining part of a federal UK. Despite the First Minister’s assertions otherwise, Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work. (No shit Sherlock). In particular, the former Yes campaigner said Mr Salmond, who is a long-time acquaintance, had “no answer at all” about what would happen to the pound or Scotland’s EU membership.Mr Murray argued that the SNP had performed about-turns on so many issues such as the monarchy and Nato membership that it was effectively arguing for federalism instead of independence.
Seems then that to be fully aware of the risks, you have to utterly brilliant or utterly brainwashed. You decide.
I'll just leave this here:
http://yes2014.net/2014/08/01/oil-around-shetland-could-be-more-than-it-appears/
🙄 that article looks like it's been written by a 12 year old on a bad day.
Wasn't me btw.
The same thing happened with Europe and the youth in the periphery states are paying the cost.
Could you remind us all of the UK youth unemployed rates since the financial institutions ruined the economy?
And you say politicians are trying to cover things up, spin and deceive.
Everyone knows the very institutions you are telling us to care about were the ones who caused the crisis you blame on the Euro; everyone knows this even you. I have a vision that in 2055 you will still be telling us the Euro is doomed.
Re the article you cited and quoted I note you gave us the journalists interpretation of what he said when his actual words are in your link.
You gave us
Mr Murray said Mr Salmond and the rest of the party’s hierarchy were “not too sure” about how independence would actually work. (No shit Sherlock)
Now the journalist and you appear to be employing
Here are his actual wordsa deliberate policy to misrepresent
“I’ve got a feeling they are not too sure themselves how it is going to work – people within the party and people within the hierarchy of the party.”
I shall leave others to decide why you gave the spin version which reads as far more conclusive and certain rather than his quote which shows his lack of certainty/actual knowledge. It is almost as if you wanted to make his claim look stronger than it actually was whilst warning us about the DO doing the same
Any with access able to copy and paste this article?
Shell shrugs off Scottish independence concernsMark Williamson
Group Business Correspondent
Thursday 31 July 2014Royal Dutch Shell's chief executive Ben van Beurden has noted the oil and gas giant plans to invest billions of dollars off Shetland in coming years, signalling the company has no major concerns about the prospect of Scottish independence.
Asked if Shell was making contingency plans for how to respond to a vote in favour of independence in September, Mr van Beurden said:
"As I've said before in December I think we would prefer it for the UK to remain a single country. There is of course uncertainty that would flow from a Scottish independence outcome but then having said that we would of course deal with Scottish independence in the way that we would have to. I don't think there is in that sense anything that we are deeply concerned about."
Mr van Beurden, who took charge in January, said the North Sea still had a big part to play in the company's plans although he intends to sell off billions of dollars of assets around the world.
While Shell has put three relatively small assets off Scotland up for sale, Mr van Beurden noted: "You have to bear in mind that there's also significant growth still. We still invest for the next few years two billion dollars a year particularly in Clair and Schiehallion (West of Shetland) so it's not as if we are completely stepping away from the North Sea. We are just engaged in the normal active portfolio management where we prune ourselves of end of life, late life assets and where ownership is better had elsewhere because there is niche or specialist capability ... and where basically we have bigger bang for our buck elsewhere. "
The Dutch executive was speaking to reporters after Shell posted a 33 per cent increase in quarterly earnings, helped by high oil prices.
The company made $6.1 billion (£3.6bn) net of one-offs in the three months to June, compared with $4.6bn in the same period of 2013.
Mr van Beurden spoke of his sadness about the crash of the MH17 Malaysia Airlines flight in east Ukraine earlier this month, which took the lives of four Shell employees and many of his compatriots and which he described as a terrible tragedy.
Ok thanks. A bit like THM
Nowt new or surprising/[i]scary[/i]
to be fair THM would probably just quote this bit
"As I've said before in December I think we would prefer it for the UK to remain a single country. There is of course uncertainty that would flow from a Scottish independence outcome
and add them to the list 😉
😆
Looks like an independent Shetland could do well for itself.
Independence only goes so far ATG - we know the DOs view on that one!!!!
Still next week, we will see the culmination of a political lifetime preparing for one event, reduced to deceit, lies and spin on TV. Or maybe, just maybe, the fiscal committee will have come up with plan D and an proper assessment of the risks etc.
Don't hold your breath, the sense of anticlimax will be breathtaking enough.
Nationalists like deceit, lies and spin THM. Here is a truth they may not wish to here. They are not the champions of social democracy and righteousness they claim!
During the week, the lovely site 'Right Wings Over Scotland' displayed the sad story of an ex serviceman from Stevenage who died after not being able to afford electricity to cool the insulin he took for his diabetes. He previously had his job seekers allowance suspended.
The tag at the bottom sarcastically says "We can't do any better than that. Vote No, everyone UK OK!"
Link to the site facebook page, comments on the article show nationalists shedding crocodile tears and questioning how people can vote No in support of a murdering Tory government.
Through the door today is a booklet from Yes Scotland extolling the financial benefits to Scotland due to oil and gas reserves, (now apparently off Shetland also), and a quote from the FT in Feb saying:-
"An independent Scotland would be richer than the rest of the UK and in the top 20 countries globally".
So then, how does Scottish independence help the next diabetes sufferer from Stevenage struggling to pay for electricity to keep their insulin cool? It doesn't, and nationalists don't care! Someone else's problem. I could almost laugh at these socialist assertions if they were not so shallow.
Remember that when you pat yourself on the back and believe you have women, mothers, students, NHS staff and the young on your side against UKIP voters and the BNP.
(now apparently off Shetland also),
You sound cynical, but that fact has come direct from a pro yes facebook page. What more do you want?
No cynicism on that piemonster. I am not doubting it. Remember though, the Northern Isles history, and possible distaste for Scottish Independence, (although there is probably a 'Shetland for Yes' group registered with the electoral commission).
I made the mistake of referring to Orkney as a part of Scotland when in Kirkwall once.
I agree with you about the article though. Appears to have been written by a child, but does not stop people using it.
You do seem sensible piemonster, and this article may be true but I do implore you not to follow the flock and believe all you hear on Yes Scotland social media. (Whisper) It's not reasoned and balanced you know.
Reading your post again piemonster, is that the point you are making, that whizzed over my head?
It's not reasoned and balanced you know.
So then, how does Scottish independence help the next diabetes sufferer from Stevenage struggling to pay for electricity to keep their insulin cool? It doesn't, and nationalists don't care! Someone else's problem. I could almost laugh at these socialist assertions if they were not so shallow
😕
Very little is on this debate but you can be part of the problem or part of the solution
Sadly most people choose to claim the other side do it whilst doing it themselves 😥
how does Scottish independence help the next diabetes sufferer from Stevenage struggling to pay for electricity to keep their insulin cool?
IScotland will increase taxation, realign government spending towards social welfare, disengage the military from overseas endless wars, promote renewable energy, develop a sub North Sea power connection to sell power to mainland Europe (which will struggle without Russian energy), use the funds to build up reserves, and then invade England and liberate Stevenage.
"As I've said before in December I think we would prefer it for the UK to remain a single country. There is of course uncertainty that would flow from a Scottish independence outcome
There are of course opportunities for Shell within that uncertainty - for example the chance to completely outnegotiate a newly-formed government of a newly-formed state that's under political pressure.
[quote=konabunny said]how does Scottish independence help the next diabetes sufferer from Stevenage struggling to pay for electricity to keep their insulin cool?
IScotland will increase taxation, realign government spending towards social welfare, disengage the military from overseas endless wars, promote renewable energy, develop a sub North Sea power connection to sell power to mainland Europe (which will struggle without Russian energy), use the funds to build up reserves, and then invade England and liberate Stevenage.
there should be a like button on here
Beautifully set up for that punchline
Chapeau Sir
Incidentally, most modern insulin can be safely stored at room temperature. Seems there's a complicated and very sad story there but it's not likely that it's the one the family are telling. I suppose it's possible he was on some stone-age insulin but even the pig-derived stuff I started out on had a reasonable shelflife in the warm- you didn't die because the fridge went off! It all smells of mental health issues tbh.
What can Scotland do to prevent it happening again? We invented insulin, surely we've done enough 😉
45 days to go.
And wasn't that a brilliant ride from Emma Pooley 🙂