He is not even close to Clegg or Blair in those stakes
@JY No he's not close he's way more deceitful
I always try and listen to different points of view, I think what Galloway said about independence being bad for the average working person in Scotland is true, they will suffer in a race to the bottom in terms of tax rates and employment conditions as Scotland seeks to retain/attract businesses. He makes a very good point about how the constitution will be written and notes AS sucking up to Murdoch. AS is Scotland's political elite just as much as Clegg/Milliband/Cameron are to Westminster.
I watched the big big debate on TV and Galloway despite his great eloquence took about 12 mins to show himself up . The man is a charlatan and if you ever wanted an a example of a deceitful politician you couldn't go far wrong with him. Mind you there is IDS and surely the daddy of them all is Bliar
The Noers on this thread seem to be raising a lot of important questions that no-one can answer. The Yessers seem to be ignoring them and focusing on hope
The undecideds are also raising lots of questions too, without many actual answers coming back. Its fairly civil on here at least, I'm seen some really nasty stuff in response on facebook. I think bencooper is very young so I'll let him off :p
If you haven't seen it Kevin Bridges' bit in this, it is very funny
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04h8kvx/kevin-bridges-live-at-the-referendum
Incidentally Galloway also managed to anger the always affable Patrick Harvie no wonder they were sat on opposite ends of the stage.
@JY No he's not close he's way more deceitful
Not sure why I bothered stating facts tbh seeing as you would just ignore them.
That is what you think not the electorate.
He is clearly popular in general as the FACTS show.
I dont have much time for George tbh but yes the new scotland wont be a socialist eutopia. Not exactly news that though is it.
IMHO his appearance at the US senate was absolutely superb and a master class from start to finish.
Galloway seems to be warning Scotland that under independence, we'll get the government we vote for. And what's worse, we'll get them all the time!
I am still surprised at the anti-Blair feeling on here. He made the Labour party electable, was in power for 10 years with the most left wing government the country was prepared to tolerate. He took us into Afghanistan to pursue Al-Qa and surely no-one believed the "Iraq 45 minute" threat (its like falling for a Nigerian email scam). We went into Iraq as the Americans did, any alternative Labour leader at the time would have done he same.
@Northwind, he is saying the constitution will be written by the SNP and it's not rocket science to work out it will be written to favour them electorally.
@Northwind, he is saying the constitution will be written by the SNP and it's not rocket science to work out it will be written to favour them electorally.
AS has already said the negotiating team will be cross party and how on earth they'd a) get away with and b) actually write a constitution that was somehow pro SNP I can't even imagine.
I am still surprised at the anti-Blair feeling on here
You are surprised that someone lied to the electorate with a dossier, ignored the feelings of the voters, went to war with Tory support in the face of the opposition of his own MP's and you are surprised that people dislike him for this? It is not on here it is everywhere.
How can this surprise you?
You can disagree but be surprised 😯
Not sure why I bothered stating facts tbh seeing as you would just ignore them.
That is what you think not the electorate.
He is clearly popular in general as the FACTS show.
Well they would think that because he's deceived them all. The big difference between him and the others you mentioned is that he's a lot better at lying and getting away with it (had more practice?) Remember the question is not whether he's popular, but whether he's deceitful. If nothing else, the things he's lying about are a lot bigger and more important than anybody else has tried.
Galloway seems to be warning Scotland that under independence, we'll get the government we vote for. And what's worse, we'll get them all the time!
Do you agree with him then? Because I thought the whole point was that it wasn't about the SNP and they'd not be in power for long...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04h8kvx/kevin-bridges-live-at-the-referendum
Thanks for that
The big difference between him and the others you mentioned is that he's a lot better at lying and getting away with it
aracer you missed out your tongue in cheek emoticon there
Yes that would be why it is not that haters are biased it is just that everyone else is wrong.
Serious for a mo - why do No voters hate him so much?
You make me look like I had a warmth towards Thatcher
FWIW the biggest lair would seem to be clegg and that is why he is hated the most .
Because I thought the whole point was that it wasn't about the SNP and they'd not be in power for long...
What's hard to understand here? The referendum isn't about the SNP and most of us think they probably won't be in power for long, but that's not to say that they couldn't be.
Galloway seems to be warning Scotland that under independence, we'll get the government we vote for. And what's worse, we'll get them all the time!
The SNP got something like 45% of the vote but 53% of the seats, so you could argue that if PR did its job properly we voted for an SNP dominated coalition rather than an SNP controlled government.
aracer - MemberI thought the whole point was that it wasn't about the SNP and they'd not be in power for long...
I really don't think you're that stupid tbh.
Some great posts in amongst the bollox.....particularly liked the pics of the Scottish Defence HQ and its array of armour! 🙂
I love the apparent contradictions
YS aligning itself with the Adam Smith Institute
Jambalaya with George Galloway
There is an obvious difference between deceit and support - people are fooled by deceit and give their support initially only to be disappointed when the cold hard facts of economic reality set it. We see this time and time again in history and now in Europe and (to a lesser extent with the deceit issues) in the US.
Given that the whole yS is based in deceit and lies that have fallen over at first testing - no other politician can match the DO. Of course, he has latched onto a underlying theme that bears not relation to what he is proposing and therein lies the danger. The BT lot simply struggle to engage with this.
The losers? Everyone bar the speculators, the lawyers and the owners of property in North of England etc
Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.
I think what Galloway said about independence being bad for the average working person in Scotland is true, they will suffer in a race to the bottom in terms
What, like a rise in zero hours contracts, record numbers of foodbanks and falling living standards as wage increases fail to keep up with inflation?
We don't need to wait for independence for these to happen.
I am still surprised at the anti-Blair feeling
ahhhh, suddenly all your posts make sense.
teamhurtmore - MemberI love the apparent contradictions
And let's not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution
Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.
Aghast that the UK has so badly managed Scotland that 50% of it's occupants are willing to take the "risk and uncertainty" and go it alone? If we were truly better together and not treated with contempt then this situation would never even arisen. Even the last ditch promise of powers goes to show how little respect we've been given, and that's regardless of which way your voting.
Meanwhile the RoW looks on aghast.
It took me a second to work out what you meant - I thought you were talking about the Republic of Wales at first.
It took me a second to work out what you meant - I thought you were talking about the Republic of Wales at first.
I thought it was Rights of Way
What appals me (as an ex business person) is the stupidity of businesses joining in the campaign on either side.
This referendum has got the whole of Scotland involved, an incredible amount of active voter participation. The hornet's nest has been well and truly whacked.
Whatever you have said as a business unless it was neutral, about 50% of those hornets are going to be pissed off with your business.
Scots are notorious for carrying a grudge (an old habit, we still haven't forgiven the Campbells 🙂 ).
On the Yes side there is already there is a movement to stop paying the BBC licence fee.
Scottish Newspapers have seen their readerships plummet.
I can think of some supermarkets who may shortly be wondering where half their customers have gone.
I don't know what the No side will do if it is a Yes vote, but I'm sure they will enliven Scottish politics at the very least. 🙂
And let's not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution
And where are the highest concentration of them?
Bankers were the transmission mechanism not the cause of the recession. Buts that's another thread.
Badly managed? Strip away the rhetoric and you have one of the most successful economic and political unions in history. Step away also from spoilt-brat syndrome and this internationally respected union is at risk on the grounds of .....errr.......platitudes, fluff and deceit . Hence the incomprehension from overseas.
Get your tax free, business parks ready for development in N of England. These opportunities only come along every now and again.
Bankers were the transmission mechanism not the cause of the recession.
A priceless gem. Apparently you can polish a turd.
[quote=BigButSlimmerBloke ] teamhurtmore - Member
I love the apparent contradictions
And let's not forget the financial services parasites whose greed caused the biggest recession in decades lecturing the rest of us about financial and economic caution
Indeed, why bother having elected politicians at all if we are always supposed to jump to whatever these supposed "captains" of finance tell us?
Serious for a mo - why do No voters hate him so much?
Lets see:
- He's in bed with Rupert Murdoch
- He was in bed with Donald Trump until it went sour for him
- He's in bed with bigot Brian Souter (largest contributor to the SNP) - how does this fit in with the vision of a 'fairer' society?
- He claims to be able to produce a fairer society but then makes plans like slashing corporation tax to 3% below that of the rUK
- He makes extremely vague and often downright misleading claims/statements about the financial future of Scotland and when challenged starts going on about bullying and hinting at dark conspiracy theories.
- He threatens for Scotland not to pay their fair share of the national debt
- The 'arc of prosperity' (although TBF this is more amusing than a reason to dislike him)
- He uses misleading scaremongering tactics WRT the NHS - http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs
- He's a politician
If we were truly better together and not treated with contempt then this situation would never even arisen.
Treated with contempt - like being given your own parliament?
teamhurtmore - MemberHence the incomprehension from overseas
My brother's in NZ, everywhere he goes he's having to explain why Scotland's still in the UK. The only incomprehension is why we end up [i]asking[/i] for a referendum, for devolution, etc. "We had a referendum for home rule in 79 and didn't get it on a technicality" "What's wrong with you people?"
Whatever you have said as a business unless it was neutral, about 50% of those hornets are going to be pissed off with your business.
I'm not finding that - perhaps because it's Glasgow, perhaps because of the clientele I attract, almost everyone who comes into the shop is supportive of it. The ones who aren't we can have a joke about it.
“The monetary policy committee of the Bank of England has nine members on it. Four members are appointed by the Treasury; we’d expect to be part of the appointments process.”
He reckons Scotland will get to be part of the appointment process for the policy committee of the national bank of a foreign country? Eh?
I'm no expert but has this ever happened in the world anywhere before?
CAPS LOCK FOR EASE NOT SHOUTING
- He's in bed with Rupert Murdoch- WHICH POLITICIAN IS NOT?
- He was in bed with Donald Trump until it went sour for him- AGRED
- He claims to be able to produce a fairer society but then makes plans like slashing corporation tax to 3% below that of the rUK- NOT INCOMPATABILE WITH A FAIRER SOCIETY
- He makes extremely vague and often downright misleading claims/statements about the financial future of Scotland and when challenged starts going on about bullying and hinting at dark conspiracy theories - COULD YOU BE MORE PRECISE
- He threatens for Scotland not to pay their fair share of the national debt- IN RESPEONSE TO NOT GETTING THE FAIR SHARE OF ASSETS - WHY BLAME TH EREATIALIATION ?
- The 'arc of prosperity' (although TBF this is more amusing than a reason to dislike him)- AGREED BUT THEY ALL DID THIS
- He uses misleading scaremongering tactics WRT the NHS - http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/09/salmonds-nhs-claims-have-been-shredded-ifs- BS - ON ALL OF THAT THE NHS WESTMINISTER HAS PRIMACY OVER HOLYROOD IN LEGISLATIVE TERMS - WHAT DOES DEVOLVED MEAN?
- He's a politician- YES SO WHY HATE HIM MORE?
Dont get me wrong I dont like him but i dont dislike him any more than any other politician either
Agree with NW my overseas mates are generally indifferent and not interested in the same way we would be if the german federal system broke down. It is not like we admire it or care....and some think the english are arrogant for thinking the whole world looks to us first as the father of democracy etc. they do not have not done in my lifetime [ if they ever even did]
Any thoughts on nationalising BP?
I'm no expert but has this ever happened in the world anywhere before
I doubt there is an example similar enough to this scenario to actually be meaningful.
Czechslovakia ????
took the
czech koruna
Slovak koruna
However they both agreed to split rather than one leave
Not sure there is a comparison to be made tbh
Lets see:- He's in bed with Rupert Murdoch
Well that's an absolute shocker that is - politician cosies up to the media. Did he hire an ex-employee of Murdoch's who was subsequently jailed for phone hacking or am I thinking of someone else?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14206371
http://www.****/news/article-1320806/Cameron-stalls-publication-Downing-Street-guestlist-Rupert-Murdoch-visited.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/leveson-inquiry/9295121/Tony-Blair-relationship-with-Rupert-Murdoch-became-easier-and-better-after-Downing-Street.html
Yes thanks for pointing out the obvious - it's a reason for me to dislike Blair and Cameron too. Two wrongs don't make a right though do they.
Also, Salmond is the one trying to make out he's a refreshing change to the self-serving political elite - whereas he appears to just be more of the same.
I guess a lot of people believed that kind of idealistic stuff when Tony Blair said it in 1997 too...
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/12/scottish-referendum-too-close-to-call-says-icm-poll
Guardian/ICM poll finds support for no campaign on 51% and yes on 49% with less than a week to go, but 17% of voters say they have yet to make up their mind
Two wrongs don't make a right though do they.
of course not but i was wondering why he is hated more than others
Most of it applies to them all tbh.
It does surprise me that folk really do like it from folk I normally agree with to folk I dont normally agree with
Most no voters seem to passionately dislike him [ in england anyway]
Is this the case in Scotland as well?
Again a genuine question
Amongst friends and colleagues, it is the deceit, refusal to answer credible questions, playing the man rather than ball and general holier than thou attitude. I don't think the attitude displayed during the campaign is anything I would want representing me at either a negotiating table or on the international stage.Most no voters seem to passionately dislike him [ in england anyway]Is this the case in Scotland as well?
@epic I think most business did indeed try and stay out of the debate for he obvious reason that they don't want to alienate one part of their customer base. However the financial services companies in particular have a requirement to make a statement as a Yes vote raises some serious issues with regard to regulation and deposit insurance schemes in particular. This then flows onto the publicly listed companies like the food retailers, when they have such a material potential future change in their business organisation they have to make a statement, doing nothing on prices means profits would likely be reduced and if they know that they have to make a statement.
@JY there where certainly dissenting voices on Iraq from within Labour on Iraq but the majority of MPs of all sides voted for the action. I didn't agree with the invasion but I can understand why it occurred and I don't put it down to one man certainly not in the UK.
Every Lib dem voted against it - 1 abstained - iirc they were away
Obviously this was back when they had principles.
Had blair opposed the war and not been so keen it would never have happened. I see little room for debate on that point and we are way OT now.
Is this the case in Scotland as well?Again a genuine question
Not as far as I'm aware, other than he represents the end of the union which the No voters don't want to see ended. What there is is the recognition that he is a tremendously skilled politician who can out argue anyone else in the Scottish parliament, something which the Westminster based contingent seem to have completely underestimated. However, No can hardly blame themselves for putting up such a pathetic defence of the union as Darling and Brown, so they turn their ire on Salmond which, with his permanent aura of smugness, isn't a difficult thing to do. But it's not an issue away from the political stage and from the headcases shouting at each other in the street (which i haven't seen any of tbh)