[Closed] Osbourne says no to currency union.

I don't doubt you're right JY on the people and politics fudge, but on the quite important issues of the level of Scottish contributions and the proportion of the EU budget it receives, it is likely to take time to post results and agree what that implies.

Otherwise, the conversation might be:
EU: So, you want to join. We see from your referendum publications that you think Scotland's one of the wealthiest nations and you're going to improve poverty and social equality. That's nice.
iS: Yup, all good.
EU: Great. As you're so rich, and in fact richer than the UK was, you'll be able to pay more than your proportional UK share. And as you've less social need, you'll not be wanting as much back. Welcome in.
iS: Eh? That's not what we meant.
EU: Well, what did you mean? Either you're rich or you're not. Either you have social need or you don't. Make up your mind.
iS: Can we think about it?

Full Scotland Scoreboard
Party Seats Gain Loss Net Votes % +/-%
Labour 41 0 0 0 1,035,528 42.0 +2.5
Liberal Democrat 11 0 0 0 465,471 18.9 -3.7
Scottish National Party 6 0 0 0 491,386 19.9 +2.3
Conservative 1 0 0 0 412,855 16.7 +0.9
UK Independence Party 0 0 0 0 17,223 0.7 +0.3
Green 0 0 0 0 16,827 0.7 -0.3
British National Party 0 0 0 0 8,910 0.4 +0.3
Trade Unionist and Socia0 0 0 0 3,530 0.1
Scottish Socialist Party0 0 0 0 3,157 0.1 -1.7
Christian Party 0 0 0 0 835 0.0
Others 0 0 0 0 10,000 0.4 -0.6
Turnout 2,465,722 63.8 +3.0

After 59 of 59 seats declared.

Election 2010
Results
Parties and issues

Find your result
Constituency List
Irelanst Stats from 2010 general election for Scotland seems the bbc think Labour polled 157202 votes more than tory and liberal combined. Incidentally thats 6.4% of the scottish vote

 

[url= http://www.adamsmith.org/news/press-release-an-independent-scotland-should-keep-the-pound-without-ruks-permission/ ]Adam Smith Institute says independent Scotland should keep the pound without rUK’s permission[/url].

Ben, as AS is so keen on referring to the Fiscal Commission, let's see what they had to say about that idea. Here's a bit from the Technical Annex you can get from [url= http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/02/3017/downloads ]this link.[/url] Rejected in one paragraph.

[i]International evidence suggests that informal monetary unions tend to be adopted by
transition economies or small territories with a special relationship with a larger trading
partner (e.g. between the UK and Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man). Advanced
economies of a significant scale tend not to operate in such a monetary framework. Though
an option in the short-term, it is not likely to be a long-term solution. The focus of the
discussion below is therefore set within the context of a formal monetary union.[/i]

This ‘sterlingization’ would emulate a number of Latin American countries that use the US Dollar without an official agreement with the US government.

Because Scottish banks would not have access to a currency-printing lender of last resort, they would have to make their own provisions for illiquidity, and would necessarily act more prudently.

One of the worst cases of blind nationalism I have ever seen.

Worth remembering that Scotland has some history with Panama 😉

One of the worst cases of blind nationalism I have ever seen

You have no idea who the Adam Smith Institute are, do you?

Dr Madsen Pirie is President of the Adam Smith Institute, and was one of three Scots graduates working in the US who founded the Institute in 1977.

Based in London but run by Scots. Not saying Scots should not write just that they might be slightly biased. 😉

I have heard of them and I doubt many other people have. Minor articles offering support such as this are not evidence a currency union is going to happen. The fact remains a currency union is not in the interest of the rUK.

Troll, I would simply ask you listen to your own advice earlier,,,,

Junkyard - lazarus 
.....you are bringing nothing to the table Please learn from this and actually say something worth saying or shh and let the grown ups discuss. [b]Again do not mistake this statement as an attempt to get a reply from you and/or interest in your opinion.[/b]
POSTED 7 HOURS AGO #

Couldn't have phrased it better

Have we really got to the level of desperation that the Panama option is being seriously discussed?!? How sad....,

Nice use of cut and paste [and no context] lets see the full quote shall we as I was not being as rude as you wished to suggest.

chewk everyone is saying you are bringing nothing to the table Please learn from this and actually say something worth saying or shh and let the grown ups discuss.

Again do not mistake this statement as an attempt to get a reply from you and/or interest in your opinion.

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/conservative-friends-of-israel/page/6#post-6217819
It also got an agreement next post, unlike any of yours to me.

I have yet to see anyone agree with your troll claim on this thread but i have read them repeat my objections.

PFFFT evidence eh

Couldn't have phrased it better

Junkyard - lazarus

Nice use of cut and paste [and no context] lets see the full quote shall we as I was not being as rude as you wished to suggest.

Oi Junkyard ... why are you dragging me into this thread?

What did I say? Where? 😯

Are you trying to show off the quote you used on me on other thread? Are you getting inflated?

Please don't let your inflated ego take over or I will knock it down few notches. 😈

Are you inviting me to play?

Nope. I don't agree with you. 😆

Meanwhile.....

teamhurtmore - Member

Meanwhile.....

Ya, not sure why I have been dragged into this thread as I want to read what's going on to see if there is any debate between Salmond vs Darling last night ...

Jessuss ... 😯

Junkyard have you turned into a troll now?

I think that explains why we said that on the other thread

are you both stalking me [ there is no jokey paranoid emoticon]

According to THM but no one else has agreed.

Junkyard - lazarus

I think that explains why we said that on the other thread

are you both stalking me [ there is no jokey paranoid emoticon]

Why are you dragging me onto this thread?

Leave the comment on other thread there rather then cross posting ...

I have not mentioned anything so far unless you are inviting me to play? Yes?

😈

I struggle with long sentences, however time marches on and I say No, don't do it scotland. It's not the 13th century.

It was not me who started the cross posting and I agree cross posting [ out of context] is poor form.

You can play wherever you please though I think you may struggle to be the silly one on here [ not aimed at THM or any one else just a general sarccy comment on how silly we have all got at times on this thread]

I struggle with long sentences, however time marches on and I say No, don't do it scotland. It's not the 13th century.

Well, that's true. Which is why I'd like to live in a democracy, and one that hasn't started three wars in the last decade. Self determination is a very modern thing, and that's what I want - a monarchy with a massive unelected House of Lords is much more 13th Century than an independent Scotland would ever be.

Junkyard - lazarus

It was not me who started the cross posting and I agree cross posting [ out of context] is poor form.

You can play wherever you please though I think you may struggle to be the silly one on here [ not aimed at THM or any one else just a general sarccy comment on how silly we have all got at times on this thread]

😆 I have been invited to play! (Peter Griffin getting excited!)

I support Scottish independence.

You don't ... yes?

😈

Based in London but run by Scots. Not saying Scots should not write just that they might be slightly biased

You seriously think that the people who inspired Thatcher are Scottish nationalists?

I am largely agnostic on the issue as I cannot vote but my position remains I would vote for almost anything that guarantees the tories would never rule over me.
The No voters on here probably consider me to be a Yes voter but I am a very weak one.

ben is the pro yes voice
THM the strong no voice and he is not a fan of AS

You?

Which is why I'd like to live in a democracy, one that hasn't started three wars in the last decade

I'm fairly sure that no one in the UK has started any war in the ten years let alone three of them.

Your history appears to be poor.

It's not even the 14th century. 😀

I am pro Yes for Scottish independence.

It does not make sense to be ruled for so long ...

😀

Sometimes this thread needs a 'time out' and a big 'group hug'

How many days.......

Gordimhor – Sorry, I didn’t look up the exact results so was using the rough numbers I could recall and some creative rounding up and down so I could do the adding up in my head without having to take my shoes and socks off 😳

The basic premise of my stance still stands though; there are lots of people who vote in Scotland who did vote for the current UK government and there has been “time after time after time after time”. Any claims to the contrary are just tub thumping nationalism BS spouted by the likes of WOS and swallowed as gospel by the believers. And as Junkyard later admitted, he’s not really interested in democracy he just wants any system which prevents a tory government - which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing just don't try and dress it up as something else 😉

If you want to see some real statistical gymnastics you should look at the nat sympathizer sites trying to claim that people who thought Salmond won the debate but failed to convert ‘Don’t Knows’ to ‘Yes’ is somehow a win situation vs. the majority who thought Darling won the debate and changed their minds from ‘Don’t Know’ to ‘No’.

I'm fairly sure that no one in the UK has started any war in the ten years let alone three of them.

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya. Okay, slightly more than 10 years.

No one in the UK started a war in Libya. And Afghanistan and Iraq, more than ten tears ago, were started by a Scottish born and raised politician.

Although I suggest you blame the English - the Scots have a long history of hating wars which presumably is why they never enlist to fight in the British armed forces.

Where did I blame the English?

41 days to go....

Where did I blame the English?

You obviously managed to misread my post even though it wasn't very long. Have another go reading this bit :

[i]Although I suggest you blame the English - the Scots have a long history of hating wars which presumably is why they never enlist to fight in the British armed forces. [/i]

The bit you need to particularly focus on is "I suggest" this implies a proposition, ie, I'm offering the suggestion that you should blame the English because obviously Scots have a long history of hating wars - they would never join the armed forces and fight wars if it wasn't for the English. Obviously.

Why do Scottish soldiers join up? The same reason African Americans do, and many other groups - poverty and lack of other prospects. The political system is to blame, not any particular nationality.

Amazing how many times this has to be said: This isn't about Scottish vs English.

The same reason African Americans do, and many other groups - poverty and lack of other prospects.

So Scots live in poverty and lack of "prospects" ? ....like African Americans apparently.

You learn something new everyday here.

Sometimes this thread needs a 'time out' and a big 'group hug'

The basic premise of my stance still stands though; there are lots of people who vote in Scotland who did vote for the current UK government and there has been “time after time after time after time”.

Any claims to the contrary are just tub thumping nationalism BS spouted by the likes of WOS and swallowed as gospel by the believers.

And as Junkyard later admitted, he’s not really interested in democracy he just wants any system which prevents a tory government - which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing just don't try and dress it up as something else

Your interpretation is beyond spin and is not a credible view.

Which Scottish born and raised politician Ernie? Anthony Blair for example spent some of his childhood in Scotland some in Australia and from 1961 lived in Durham according to wikipedia

I have less of a NO voice, rather a complete intolerance of AS, the actual case being out forward (or lack of it) and the grotesque deceit and lies that are being used to make a case on an issue of such importance. In general, I am sympathetic to devolved power and to reducing the role of government's in general - my libertarian streak. In fact, if a genuine case for independence was put forward I would expect to be in support of many of the pillars and tolerant of supporting Scotland in the challenge of transition. But that requires honesty about the case and the challenges up front instead of the yS BS.

Having watched AS over quite a period I do not accept that he is this masterful politician. Yes, in a small pool he has been able to bully the limited opposition into submission with classic tactics. But it is refreshing that his bluff has now been called and his balloon well and truly burst. It took too long. The smug positioning of Scottish interests would be acceptable - that is what he is there to do after all - if that didn't lead to this nonsense that anyone representing rUKs interested was simply displaying his 3Bs. As this week has shown, at some point he really does have to be honest about core issues. Equally no surprise that iS supporters are also looking to distance themselves from the DO. Good idea.

KB talks about dropping the currency (JMK ) references. But that would be silly. Why? Because if you read the work of the fiscal commission and other bodies who analyse the currency options and understand why they come the conclusion that they do, then the answer is blatantly obvious - you stay as part of a union. The choice (by yS) of £ reflects the fact that the Uk satisfies most of the criteria for an optimum currency area (unlike Europe). This is the conclusion reached by YS' own analysis. And that is EXACTLY why Scottish and rUK interests are best served by the status quo and why the union has worked very well to date - funny how yS argue how stong the economy is within the status quo. That's true and darling shouldn't be scared of the fact. But the best case for the union is currently being given by yS itself. The ultimate irony caused by the elephant in the room. No one has out forward the case for independence of policy etc and all that goes with it.

Finally, it's not acceptable to say that all politicians lie. This is deceit on a scale not seen since the Europe debate. The blatant untruths re the currency, how monetary policy works, how the CU would work, walking away on debt, tax and spending, pensions, NS Oil are unbecoming for a debate of this importance. And no, it's not just a Scottish issue. This BS affects the whole of the UK.

Fortunately, the polls suggest that the majority of Scots are canny and able enough to see bought the BS. In the end, the sensible ones will win either way since all main Uk parties will bend over backwards to devolve more power and responsibility - and good for that. Of course, in doing this they are creating a very uneven playing field for other parts of the UK. Pandora's box has been well and truly opened now....

it's not acceptable to say that all politicians lie.

Pandora's box has been well and truly opened now.

FWIW I also like federalism but i do not mind big govt as long as it helps and it does not spy.

It upsets me to be in agreement with Junkyard

I feel unclean

FWIW I quite like your posts though you do get a bit off on one when the subject drifts on to pies 😉

Do they still sell pies like this ?
Do they have a name like plain bread?

[img] [/img]

Have you ever tries a butter pie? Northern delicacy Binners can tell you more

[img] [/img]

I gained weight just looking at the butter pie

Yes, they still make such high calibre pie products
[img] [/img]

You cruel, heartless bastard.

Some of us here are vegetarian 😉

here ben a vegetarian pie for you

[img] [/img]

Best wishes the Vegan 😉

Not a dig just a joke

I'd eat that.

Not willingly, but, you know, if I had to.

you are the one arguing its ok that the ones who came last rule you...oh the ironing

No, I’ve never argued that at all so you can put the ironing board away.

Your claim is that Scotland never voted for the current government (well it’s crept to that, from the initial position of “time and time and time again”) but Scotland is not a single homogenous voting entity and making a sweeping statement that Scotland voted for XYZ is verifiably false, there are currently 12 MPs in the UK government who ‘Scotland’ voted for and it could be argued that using a more proportional form of representation that there should be more (36%*59=21)but we can probably agree to gloss over the fact that the ‘broken’ Westminster system hugely over-represents Labour in Scotland.

Clearly the [i]majority[/i] of people didn’t vote Lib or Con, ~2.5million people voted in the election and only about 900k of those voted for the current government but you want to ignore those peoples opinions because their political views don’t match yours or those of another group of voters irrespective of the fact that ~16.5million people agree with them.

Every time a tory is governing scotland it is not due to the votes in scotland no matter how much you torture logic to suggest otherwise

I never did suggest otherwise. Although if you go back to 1951……… 😉

Your interpretation is beyond spin and is not a credible view.