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I was talking about academic research carried out by people who have slightly more intelligence than your average politician.
The "Devo Max" option that the SNP wanted to be included on the ballot paper?
SNP had no mandate for a devo max question – it wasn't mentioned in their manifesto
The irony is, that the end result of the No vote will probably be closer to DMax! The main parties have already shown their cards in that respect, they are vote collectors after all.
If AS was as canny as some suggest, he would see this, STFU, accept the law of unintended consequences and enjoy the opportunity to still be a big fish in a little pond and still be able to blame the English when suits. He would be like a pig in....
Tax cuts, which is what this means, result in spending cuts.
no wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. You might have been in favour ernie, but most Scots I know weren't
Says the woman who prefaces this accusation by showing (1) she doesn't know what an asset is and (3) she doesn't understand debt-to-GDP..It would be funny if it wasn't so important
So is counting 😉
SNP had no mandate for a devo max question – it wasn't mentioned in their manifesto
Unlike the Tory mandate to hold this vote with a coalition government
Worst scribble ever.
Stop playing the man THM re AsS.
No rUK politician has made anything other than sound bite flirtations re devo max and they do this to sway the voters.
there is nothing concrete on the table and I will be amazed if it is a manifesto pledge of any of them tbh. However you chose to respect these people of honour. At least apply your cynicism both ways, they are all BS to the electorate to get the outcome they want.
that this thread has ron to 188 pages with virtually all the posts being from people who don't get to voteThe irony is
Yes odd that given that the vote has implications for all!
Afghanistan
Scots in not understanding the responsibilities under article 5 of NATO charter. shocker....
they are all BS to the electorate to get the outcome they want.
I think that we may have finally found something that all of STW can agree on. Will this cause the world to end?
Anyway the x-factor reject (I think?) is making a good fist of it at the castle now (bbc 1). Good gag from the comic too!
Scots in not understanding the responsibilities under article 5 of NATO charter. shocker....
Well seeing as you don't have anything else to do with your time, please do explain how much was spent in Afgahnistan, why it was spent and what the benefit is, other than giving the daily mail readership some more dusky skinned heathens to hate.
that this thread has ron to 188 pages with virtually all the posts being from people who don't get to vote
That may be true but for some reason AS keeps engaging non voters by giving referendum speeches in England
and you always rise to the bait do you? if so, i know this nigerian ex-president...
ChubbyBlokeInLycra - Memberno wars in Iraq or Afghanistan. You might have been in favour ernie, but most Scots I know weren't
Well it's true Chubby, I was right behind Tony Blair and his wars.
Of course as a full member of NATO an "independent" Scotland will simply ignore NATO-backed wars which it doesn't fancy fighting in.
and you always rise to the bait do you?
Not particularly, I don't think I've posted on this thread before the last one, so 'always' is probably stretching it a bit.
But the SNP seems to want to get non voters involved so I guess some will accommodate that.
please do explain how much was spent in Afgahnistan, why it was spent and what the benefit is,
Irrelevant straw man - Scotland plans to be part of NATO, if NATO article 5 is invoked then all constituent members of NATO are duty bound to collective defence, an attack on one is an attack on all.
that'll be no then?
Not particularly, I don't think I've posted on this thread before the last one, so 'always' is probably stretching it a bit.
,,and yet you did rise on this occaiasion, so you do rise. And you'll probably do it again.
I made no comment on the referendum other than to indicate why non voters may be commenting following your post mentioning it
see? "always rise"
You're very clever Chubby, your debating skills are awesome - you're always catching people out.
How many points have you scored now ? 🙂
Wasn't counting ernie, but when it comes to pointless point scoring, your little spats with ninfan et al probably score pretty high. Fortunately, I can't really compete there
[quote=Junkyard ]
It would be funny if it wasn't so important
So is counting
and spelling? 😉
Remember 'Devolution will kill Nationalism stone dead'? Well, it didn't, and neither would Devo Max.
Absolutely - Scottish independence is inevitable. There's [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/opinion/sunday/The-Independence-Referendum-Is-a-Test-of-Scotlands-Confidence.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1 ]A good article in the NY Times[/url] about that.
ChubbyBlokeInLycra - MemberWasn't counting ernie, but when it comes to pointless point scoring, your little spats with ninfan et al probably score pretty high. Fortunately, I can't really compete there
Gosh, you've really caught me out there with that retort, you're on a roll tonight, aren't you mate. How many people have you slapped down now ?
Ben that is a very impartial article written in the NY Times....by a Scot! 🙄
The writer of the article is going back to scotland to vote yes and he lives in London. He doesn't want Scotland ruled from England but is happy to be ruled by it himself. Go figure that out?
and spelling?
[s]mossively impertant to sum 😉
[/s]
Are you suggesting there is a typo in counting ?
Faster no one is impartial on this debate so anyone who writes anything can be accused of bias. Its generally better to address the issue they raise rather than point out that someone who is arguing for independence is biased for independence and the ignoring them or else I can simply say
You dont want independence so you are biased .....I doubt we would get to this many pages with this approach
the author does a fairly reasonable job of being balanced and presents the yes and the no cases reasonably impartially - certainly better than the bile posted on here [ from both sides]
I think they have a point - perhaps like the EU for the UK it wont go away whatever the vote.
That's just it, the issue will not go away even if NO achieve a 75% of the vote (which isn't going to happen).
For that reason its best for both parties - but IMO especially the UK - that the result is a YES vote.
Muddy everyone is in the UK both parties would be iS and rUK.
the issue will not go away even if NO achieve a 75% of the vote
The issue will most certainly go away for a very long if there is a no vote. Of course the SNP will still carry on campaigning for independence, because that's what they've been doing since they were formed 80 years ago. And no one be sure that you won't still be banging on about how you dislike Scots because of what Alex Salmond has said.
Funny how the NYT article conveniently sidesteps the fact that being part of the union allowed Scotland to come through the crisis far better than most and to recover relatively well within a wider union. And yS want to exchange this for uncertainty, risk and unsustainable macro policies. Absurd. Good job these folk are kept largely out of the way of actual business, you would be fired for such incompetence in the real world.
Muddy everyone is in the UK both parties would be iS and rUK.
Obvious troll is obvious.
Ernie, i don't dislike Scottish people at all - although i grant you i do dislike Mr Salmond.
I do think we will all be better off in the event of a Yes vote, it may take some time but relations between the UK & Scotland will settle down & improve, financial stability will improve long term in the UK at least due to being rid of the uncertainty, i also believe the UK left will be forced to re-engage with the larger UK population again which is no bad thing.
To be honest i can't see a downside for the UK should Scotland vote Yes, plus it brings autonomy (of a sort) to a region that currently feels undervalued - win/win you might say.
If that is anti-Scottish in your view so be it, you aren't any sort of oracle to me.
Of course you're not anti-Scottish, and Salmond isn't anti-English.
[url= http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/scotland/article1436728.ece ]Better Together is being tipped off about BBC debates so they can get their supporters into the audience.[/url]
More seriously...
wanmankylung - Member
When faced with the two remaining options, for me there is no choice but to vote for independence. This is because I want to live in a country that looks after the most vulnerable people....etc
Even AS's advisors don't believe that he will deliver this. Take Stiglitz's view on tax policy
Professor Joseph Stiglitz said:"…there are some tax-avoiding jurisdictions, such as Ireland, that are competing in a race to the bottom by offering low tax rates, so much so that money kept abroad can almost escape taxation."
"…the consequences are not just a matter of fairness.”
This isn’t the first time Professor Stiglitiz has criticised cuts to corporation tax, previously saying:
“It’s just a gift to the corporations increasing inequality in our society.”
When you own team point out that you are talking BS, you know you are on a sticky wicket.
I'm not voting for Alex Salmond. I'm not voting for the SNP. I'm voting for the ability to decide our government.
the author does a fairly reasonable job of being balanced and presents the yes and the no cases reasonably impartially
In an article titled,
Scottish Independence Is Inevitable
The Independence Referendum Is a Test of Scotland’s Confidence
and that ends with,
I shall vote yes this September. The campaign has already taught me that if we don’t make it with this third referendum, there will be a fourth. It’s time to rejoin the world on our own terms.
is hardly balanced or impartial.
More like fanciful.....like most of the yS arguments
No stories are balanced or impartial. And that's okay - newspapers don't have an obligation to be balanced.
But when the BBC, who we all pay for and do have such an obligation, are so blatantly unbalanced then we have to take notice.
When they cover a Free Palestine demonstration in Glasgow, they interviewed a leading Labour politician, and forget to mention that he was booed off stage.
No voters are a minority group and I believe they deserve at least 35% of articles regarding independence are about them. 😉
The Beeb are perfectly balanced - everyone thinks that Auntie is biased against them!!!
That takes some doing - or just shows that the arguments are pretty false.
[url= http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/news/283287-indy-scotlands-eu-membership-would-be-treated-as-special-case/ ]Juncker says Scotland would be a special case and he wouldn't want us to be left out of the EU.[/url]
The Beeb are perfectly balanced - everyone thinks that are biased against them!!!
Proper rigorous scientific research shows otherwise, and BBC management tried to undermine the professor who carried out the research.