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You won't be able to collect your own tax. Your wallet is in our pocket
I think you've made a mistake about who I represent and where I do it from.
The whole abuse and death threats thing seems ridiculous to me - from both sides. Its this deep ill feeling that is being generated that worries me and why i want it done and dusted. As its going we will end up with a narrow No vote and the ensuing bitter fallout will poison Scottish/UK relations for yrs to come. Worst of all possible outcomes.
Agreed - despite hoping for a no vote, I almost think a narrow yes vote might be better than a narrow no vote.
JY. It does sound like devo max is what Salmond. Is it actually devo max though to hand over so much control to a parliament that Scotland will have no representation at what so ever? (Awaits somebody with usual line on no representation now).
It is a fact devo max within UK is what most Scots want, and UK parties have put down proposals, all being bombed by the SNP. To say proposals will not be honoured is only opinion.
My opinion unlike those that think the UK only exists to bleed Scotland dry, is that reform will happen otherwise Scotland will be lost to the union in 10-20 years. That is why those that vote yes will not and should not be ignored. I fell though that this sentiment is not generally reciprocated. I agree though with the sentiments expressed in the Weir's statement.
I can't think of any benefits for the rUK from devo-max? It is not on the referendum paper anyway, if Scots want change they should go for independence it is the only guaranteed change.
Whereas the No supporters are always calm, reasonable and well-mannered?
#whataboutery
I can't think of any benefits for the rUK from devo-max?
Union survives and the country stays, more or less, the same
AS has to shut the **** up
This thread never needs to be done ever again
You get to continuing steal the oil 😉
[quote=Junkyard ]AS has to shut the **** up
JY wins the thread
The beauty of education is when resistant pupils finally stop messing around and admit that they "get it". At that point, the time and effort finally seems worthwhile! In the old days, they were rewarded with the "progress prize".
AS could always drift off into the political graveyard that is the EU parliament. The irony would be perfect.
You get to continuing steal the oil
But we already get to steal the oil. If Scots want more devolution then there should be something in it for the rUK. Devo-max is moving away from a union of countries towards a small country just outsourcing or sharing various governmental departments from a larger country. If Scotland wants devo-max then they should have to give an increased amount to remain part of the union. An increased percentage of GDP should cover the bill. I see independence as Scotland looking to do what is best for Scotland. After a potential no vote then I think the rUK should do what is best for the rUK and offer devo-max up to Scotland but at a price.
fasternotfatter - Or tie devo max in with electoral seat reform, eg. solve the west lothian question by excluding Scottish MP's from non-Scotland votes
66 days to go and the bullshit stops.
Tomorrow's FT - velvet divorce? Pull the other one.
"If Mr Salmond really believes his own rhetoric, he is deluded. A split between Scotland and the rest of the UK would not be a velvet divorce. It would almost certainly be a no-holds-barred affair." (Quote boxes have disappeared)
Quite.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ea520ece-02c1-11e4-a68d-00144feab7de.html?siteedition=uk#axzz37EZ1obco
Adds Anthony King to the list.
Epic, it will get a lot worse yet. 66 days, polls static. Mr BS to pull out all the stops now.....
[url= http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28276525 ]http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28276525[/url]
I like this one, particularly the paragraph stating from the Scottish Government that only independence would allow Scotland to develop it's space industry.
Tell that to the people using food banks.
Surely even HS2 would be a better use of funds?
The voters say no
Such a shame they're not going to be able to vote for real 😉
The BBC is trying its hardest, though - they're currently blurring out the Yes flags in coverage from T In The Park...
Who is this prat 'Anthony King' THM ?
If the Scottish people freely choose to separate from the rest of the UK then why on earth would both sides not want to facilitate the process to bring about a speedy and amicable conclusion ?
Threats of non-cooperation are incredibly childish and serve no useful purpose.
From athgray's link :
[i]Scotland has a proud association with space exploration. We celebrated Neil Armstrong's Scottish ancestry when he became the first man on the Moon [/i]
So the 1969 moon landing was a great achievement for Scotland ?
How desperate are the nats or do they really believe this bollocks ?
King offers no opinion on the vote one way or the other he merely says the separation and independence wont go smoothly if they do vote for independence because rUK would not play nicely. Given AS claims that rUK bullies Scotland one could equally claim it supports his view of the UK.
IMHO both claims would be tenuous and one would need one to be wandering around the internet looking fo r articles that support ones view.
for exampe
if there is to be an amicable settlement after a Yes vote, the Scottish government will be looking for a significant amount of goodwill from Westminster. But that goodwill is unlikely to be forthcoming, especially if the UK government elected in May 2015 is Conservative
Bit better than the last one you quoted but still not quite what you claim.
ernie that quote is risible but it is Danny Alexander and not a nationalist
[quote=Junkyard ]one to be wandering around the internet looking fo r articles that support ones view.
Nobody on here would do that would they?
If i was to answer would it be ?
1. A troll
2. A straw man
😉
From athgray's link :Scotland has a proud association with space exploration. We celebrated Neil Armstrong's Scottish ancestry when he became the first man on the Moon
So the 1969 moon landing was a great achievement for Scotland ?
How desperate are the nats or do they really believe this bollocks ?
If you read the article it was Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander who made those remarks. Last time I checked he was not a nat.
Edited :
I read the article but obviously failed to read it diligently enough. I am not however in the least bit surprised that something as moronic as that comment came the lips of Danny Alexander.
I also failed to read Junkyards post diligently enough.
As the poster above explained the space quote you used is from danny alexander who is the treasury secretary and very much not a nationalist and will be voting no.
I was not replying to your quote re King
Sorry for the lack of clarity as it is not clear.
I do agree that threats to not co-operate, which ever way the vote goes, and whichever side does it, are childish and unhelpful.
Sorry for the lack of clarity as it is not clear.
No it was me.
ernie_lynch - Member
Who is this prat 'Anthony King' THM ?
Don't know if he is a prat or not Ernie. I do know that he is a prof at one of the UK's leading Unis though. But hey, standards must be slipping there and at the FT?!? 😉 He will be on Newsnight next!
Still valid points in many respects. We have already seen in January what happens in financial markets when AS spouts his BS. At the very least a yes vote will lead to significant uncertainty especially since one side is so clearly ill-prepared on most issues. Beyond that AS pretends that while he will negotiate hard in Scotland's interests, the rUK will roll over like a pup. That is a crock. Not only will rUK negotiate hard and in its own interests but it also holds the aces and the trumps. The result will be a mess that is unlikely to serve anyone's interests well. Then again that is often the case with vanity projects.
Why do so many people on the No side think independence is just Alex Salmond's vanity project? Because they can't think outside the standard party political system? Because they think it helps their cause to play the man?
[img] 
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I'm happy with which side I'm on.
Are so there's more than one narrow minded bigoted xenophobe in Scotland, here was me thinking it was just AS.
Now here in Yorkshire we pride ourselves, nay celebrate our bigotry. our xenophobes are beacons of true Yorkshire men (no women obviously). Once we have our independence or devo-max (which ever's cheapest), I can see a true Scotland Yorkshire alliance being built. Jointly we could celebrate moaning an ow little we spent.
The first summit meeting between Alex Salmond and Geoffery Boycott should go very well.
MT - Pah, you can't expect a mere elected politician to share equal footing on the same stage as Royalty!
[quote=bencooper ]Because they think it helps their cause to play the man?
I'm happy with which side I'm on.
Oh the ironing. I'd almost wonder if it was deliberate, but suspect Ben had his blinkers on and didn't spot it.
Are so there's more than one narrow minded bigoted xenophobe in Scotland, here was me thinking it was just AS.
Given the rest of your post is clearly in jest, I'll assume that this was to and give you the benefit of the doubt that you're not really a prize bellend.
Not only will rUK negotiate hard and in its own interests
Are you claiming rUK wont adhere to the Edinburgh agreement whilst blaming AS for this?
It seems odd to have a pop at AS when the article is all about rUK ignoring the Edinburgh agreement and not playing fairly in the event of a yes vote. How is this his fault? As ernie notes that would just not be cricket. IMHO it makes more sense to claim that this is evidence that supports his view tbh but it is still weak. to claim that the rUK ignoring their own signed pledge is evidence against AS is to put ones politics before the facts.
As for calling scottish independence a vanity project that is disrespectful tabloid trash talk not worthy of response beyond 🙄
Ben same to you with your football team tbh
there are fine people/organisations on both sides and nobbers on both sides.
It is easy to cherry pick a team either way to highlight your point.
IMHO more nutters are pro union [ in general - orange order, UKIP , EDL types] but that is still aweak point to make.
Because they think it helps their cause to play the man?
Of course it does in the same it serves AS to play CMD as a Etonian bully or No to say it is just a vote for AS or his vanity programme. Please remember to only criticise the other side for doing this though , whilst then doing it yourself,that is the critical point in all this.
Love the picture Ben. SNP hiding away at left back and many of the NO A team rested including the foreign players! Are they on their way back from Brazil still?
[quote=Junkyard ]
Not only will rUK negotiate hard and in its own interests
Are you claiming rUK wont adhere to the Edinburgh agreement whilst blaming AS for this?
No - he's pointing out that rUK [b]will[/b] adhere to the Edinburgh Agreement!
Co-operation
30. The United Kingdom and Scottish Governments are committed,
through the Memorandum of Understanding between them and others,4
to working together on matters of mutual interest and to the principles of good communication and mutual respect. The two governments have reached this agreement in that spirit. They look forward to a referendum that is legal and fair producing a decisive and respected outcome. The two governments are committed to continue to work together constructively in the light of the outcome, whatever it is, in the best interests of the people of Scotland and of the rest of the United Kingdom.
Not convinced tbh but happy to hear your explanation
ninfan,
thought that as a mere mortal AS would appreciate the company of His Godship Boycott.
whatnoshandy,
if i'd wanted to be insulting I'd have mentioned that the other common traits Scotlandistas and plain Yorkshire folk have is a sense of humour and the ability not to take things to seriously. I'd have been lying mind.
Now back to the point of this thread, Free Yorkshire!
edit. Just noticed. If there's money with the award for "prize bellend" I'll accept with honour, if not then keep it were it belongs. 🙂
I'm happy with which side I'm on.
How strange, there doesn't appear to be anywhere on either team for "average member of the Scottish electorate"
It's a question posed to the electorate about a binary decision. Your comment makes no sense,
This may or may not have some impact if the trend continues.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/14/ukip-guardian-icm-poll-tories-labour-nigel-farage
Try to imagine Ed Milliband as Prime Minister.
Exactly.
Hard to imagine any of them as PM.
Even Dave.
Surprised we haven't done the SNP trying to threaten the EU:
Deputy First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has warned that keeping an independent Scotland out of the EU could mean people from other European nations living in Scotland could “lose the right to stay here”.Ms Sturgeon suggested that the 160,000 non-British citizens from other EU members states now resident in Scottish cities and towns could be stripped of their residency rights if Scotland was “outside Europe”.
[quote=piemonster ]Hard to imagine any of them as PM.
I tried to imagine all of them lined up to see which of them I preferred. Dave, Ed, Nick, Nigel, Alex.
Then I found myself imagining a brick wall, blindfolds and a load of blokes with rifles.
[quote=ninfan ]Surprised we haven't done the SNP trying to threaten the EU:
Interesting argument, with 3 possible solutions I can see:
1) EU give in to the blustering and let Scotland back in on what ever terms they want
2) iS pragmatically allows all EU nationals currently resident to stay in order not to piss off the organisation they want to join
...and here's the really radical one
3) Scotland doesn't leave the EU in the first place.
Presumably Ms Sturgeon hasn't worked out that being independent would allow them to do what they want with their borders - not that surprising I suppose given they seem to reject most of the other aspects of independence.
Has anybody checked for a smoking gun and holes in her feet recently?