[Closed] Oooo am I going to get a visit from the police?

so you blocked the road so people couldn't merge like your supposed to?

Whilst I dislike "those people" who fly up the outside and force their way in at the last moment, it is the most efficient way to use the road - two equal queues, merging in turn, like a zip. Quite why we feel the need to queue needlessly I'm not quite sure.

But still I do it, because for some reason we're all conditioned to think the right thing to do is to dive into the inside lane at the first sign of a merging road and sit there.

Not sure what you really achieved by blocking someone.

If you were just at the point of merging then no issue, but otherwise obstruction of the highway.

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.
Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

In this case he has achieved a trip to court,prison, loss of job,breakdown of his relationship,and possibly having to sell his blood to get by when living on the streets. AND FOR WHAT WRIGHTYSON? AND FOR WHAT?

I once had someone get proper shitty with me merging in front of them once. they finally bottled and let me in so I let about 30 cars in in front of me. 😀

in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.

Who in turn are delaying others because the lenght of the queue now means that other juctions are gridlocked.

Isn't it now an offence* to do this i.e. driving up to the front of a queue a pushing in?

I thought it was brought in as some of the new endorsable offences recently - might have been a while back but definitely last year.

*If you are caught doing it?

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.
Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

Totally agree.

But there is no where to merge, it ends in a stand off, which causes shit loads of grief regularly. Why can't people queue like the other 50 cars in the lane?

Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

I know, hence my second paragraph. It should work, it's the most efficient, but it's a theory. Reality doesn't work, because we're conditioned to think that anyone who merges late is a moron.

Quite why we feel the need to queue needlessly I'm not quite sure.

Good god man are you some sort of foreign Johnny? Pointless queueing for the sheer love of it is what puts the Great in Great Britain, damn you! You can clear orf to France or somewhere similarly beastly if you don't like it...

[quote=wrightyson ]But there is no where to merge, it ends in a stand off, which causes shit loads of grief regularly. Why can't people queue like the other 50 cars in the lane?

because if it was two lanes of 25 cars it'll be half the length and moving free-er?

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.
Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

So you think it's better to make the line of stationary cars twice as long as it needs to be, and block more side roads/junctions/roundabouts ?

No, you queue in all available lanes, and merge when you need to.

The OP was in the wrong, not the other driver.

Really don't understand the queuing for miles before a lane merge, sensible speed and feed in where there is space surely? Doesn't have to be aggressive or seen as 'pushing in'.

I once had someone get proper shitty with me merging in front of them once. they finally bottled and let me in so I let about 30 cars in in front of me.

Will remember that one 😆

When they are sign up stating the lanes are merging why should someone feel the need to push in at very front where it has become one lane. Merging is just like the acceleration lane of a motorway. You don't leave it to the last moment to join the other lane but instead [i]merge [/i] when it safe to do so.

It depends on the road of course. Where two lanes merge into one, like a lane closure on a motorway, you're supposed to merge in turn at the point it narrows like teeth in a zipper. There's absolutely no point in sitting there three miles away from the merge point in a queue that's twice as long as it needs to be whilst the rest of the road sits there unused. Blocking off half the road is just petty.

On the other hand, if the two lanes to one merge is one of those things where it's actually two lanes going to different places then people should be queuing rather than trying to shove in at the front (blocking off the other lane in the process). There's one of these on the road into Colne after the M65 ends, it's a two-lane dual carriageway where the right lane is right-turn only. It's hideous at rush hour and you'll always get some cockwomble steam past everyone and carve in at the front. (Of course, some people might not know the road and the signage isn't great so it could be unintentional; I'd wager most aren't). Tempers flare, there's a YT video somewhere of someone trashing a TT rather than allowing someone to queue jump.

There a couple of big junctions near me that have been widened to 2 lanes in the middle and merge back to one later. The idea is to stop queues backing up over the junction, and also lets more cars through the lights for a given time since its slightly faster overall for 2 cars pulling away next to each other to negotiate merging further down the road than it is for those same 2 cars to go one behind the other through the same lights.

On this basis perhaps we should be encouraged to use the whole of both lanes and merge in turn at the end, rather than taking the LH lane as soon as we realise the road shrinks to one lane 100+ yards later, so as to make traffic flow faster through junctions for everyone.

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

[url= https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/multilane-carriageways-133-to-143 ]https://www.gov.uk/general-rules-all-drivers-riders-103-to-158/multilane-carriageways-133-to-143[/url]

Get into lane as directed is the key here, you're told the lanes merge in 800m etc. so you merge when the lanes do, not when you're given advance warning.

[i]Really don't understand the queuing for miles before a lane merge, sensible speed and feed in where there is space surely? Doesn't have to be aggressive or seen as 'pushing in'. [/i]

+1

Also there is an 'art' to picking the right vehicle to merge in on, preferably something new and small. Or one that is clean is also a useful pointer to someone who cares about their car and will let me in 🙂

craigxxl - Member

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.
Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

+2

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.

If the left lane is stationary and there's two lanes merging into one, how long is the right lane going to keep moving for?

When they are sign up stating the lanes are merging why should someone feel the need to push in at very front where it has become one lane

Because [i]that's what you're supposed to do.[/i] It only fails because we've roads full of sheep and halfwits, sitting there all smug and comfortable in the belief that whatever arbitrary point they've chosen to move into the left lane is the same point everyone else should.

One of those if it is two lanes merging you use all available lanes like a zip
Most ones I can think of locally its just a chance for inconsiderate folk to barge there way into a the queue after not having queued like the rest of us.

Locally there is a set of traffic lights that are two lanes - there is a right turn after them hence two lanes. Many folk barell down to then force their way in where it becomes one lane forcing everyone [ who has patiently been in the correct lane]to then brake to achieve this.
IMHO those folk would rather save two seconds for themselves than care about manners or their impact on other road users. Its not hard to see why folk block them as they are just making them join the queue like the rest of us. I dont think they would do this anywhere but in a car.

Gotta love the self appointed merge police. 8)

Regularly see a roundabout near me completely deadlocked due to a queue going right across it, yet there is at least 500m of completely empty lane that 50% of the twerps could go into to clear it. Absolutely braindead. Same thing every day. They even put signs up saying "Use Both Lanes", but nobody does.

It only fails because we've roads full of sheep and halfwits, sitting there all smug and comfortable in the belief that whatever arbitrary point they've chosen to move into the left lane is the same point everyone else should.

Not to mention the few that, having sat queueing for the past mile feel the need to prove some angry point by blocking/closing the door on on cars trying to merge in safely. I'd hate to get that worked up over something so petty.

Locally there is a set of traffic lights that are two lanes - there is a right turn after them hence two lanes. Many folk barell down to then force their way in where it becomes one lane forcing everyone [ who has patiently been in the correct lane]to then brake to achieve this.

Surely that's just people being in the wrong lane and driving like prats?

Needs a streetview of the road just so we can confirm yes you are an @sshat

do you also travel at 70 in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane just to wind people up?

I still dont get why you queue, is it so you feel better when you 'let' people in?

When the left lane has become stationary already those merging/pushing in at the front are delaying everyone who has shown some consideration to other road users.
Njee theory never works unless the traffic is flowing freely.

I'd say it's exactly the opposite to what you describe.

In a perfect world we all merge whilst free flowing - do it gently a distance away from the actual merge never needing to stop and it's all good. If we are going to have to all grind to halt, it might as well be right at the very end that you merge and 'zip together' and use the road efficiently.

But, just like njee I do the British thing and merge as soon as possible and complain about the people who don't. Nowt strange as folk!

Has this getting past that pile up on the M40 at the weekend.
closed a lane going south so it lanes 2 and 3 merged (lane 1 was an exit), both lanes were used and most people managed without issue.

its the way it supposed to work, no knights of the road blocking a perfectly good lane. it all starts to fall apart when that happens and people try to leave a 5mm gap between car to stop people merging.

I think that what we need is instead of closing either the left or right lane we close 1/2 of each and merge into the middle before the cones take you over to the side they want you on. match that with some zip type signs and most people will figure it out.

problem solved. vote chrispy!

I dont drive much but when I do its in an big old Volvo estate which has had a few minor scrapes. It takes a brave new car leaser to not let me in.

People are pretty sh!t at giving way and being considerate of others, on my morning drive (only if I am going to the hills after work) there is a junction that I need to exit into a two lane road and I need to be in the right hand of these (the lights are 20m away and give left more priority) so I wait and join the right lane when I can. Often people behind start beeping and getting irate that I am holding them up (they want the left lane) but no-one lets me out into the right lane. This morning's gent was inching forward and glancing at me, so as soon as the right lane went green I shoved my van into the mm space in front of him and wedge myself until I got into the gap in front of him. He did not like this. So I became one of them. Was that or sit for another 10 mins... What is correct etiquette here?

Found it. This is the video I was on about.

Not really relevant in itself, but it shows the right-turn-only lane that people use to queue-jump. Absolutely should be in one lane on this bit of road if you're going straight on.

but to directly answer your question....for blocking a lane yes you should go to jail and be bummed for your sins.

Surely that's just people being in the wrong lane and driving like prats?

Junkyard + 1. Merging is not used as it should be. If I do it, I make a point not to race up as far as I can (much to the anger of those behind me usually). Use the lanes, but DBAD.

While I can understand that a queue extending back across a junction might cause extra delay. I'm kinda perplexed by the idea that two lanes of traffic merging into one at the last minute will move faster than one, longer lane of traffic. Would anyone care to explain the fluid dynamics of the theory. You still have to go through the same single lane constriction. My second question is why those people trying to merge at the last minute are invariably driving Audis

The worst you'll get from the police is a letter and/or request to visit station with insurance/mot but that's all online now so quite probably nothing at all.

I always merge at the merge point.
Everyone who queues early sucks

@imnot .. you are supposed to merge only at the very end/narrowest point in a car by car, one left/one right sort of way. You are not supposed to form one massive single lane queue as that moves the point of congestion much further back down the road.

Had a top one of these myself where a guy was blocking road with his car about 1 mile from the point where due to road works it went from two lanes to one. I managed to get round him at one slightly wider point - he was furious and I couldn't stop laughing. It was literally a mile further up the road before I needed to filter in.

While I can understand that a queue extending back across a junction might cause extra delay. I'm kinda perplexed by the idea that two lanes of traffic merging into one at the last minute will move faster than one, longer lane of traffic. Would anyone care to explain the fluid dynamics of the theory. You still have to go through the same single lane constriction. My second question is why those people trying to merge at the last minute are invariably driving Audis

Not sure it's quite fluid dynamics but [url= http://www.citylab.com/commute/2013/09/fantastically-clear-concise-explanation-why-traffic-happens/6962/ ]try this.[/url]

Ok jam, but if the congestion is 1 mile down the road, rather than 1/2 mile down the road, as long as it does not lead back across another junction, in what way is merging late helping matters? Each constituent part of that congestion still needs to go through the same gap at the queue, so in what way is it more efficient? If two lanes of road are carrying more vehicles than one lane can cope with.... There is going to be a queue forming.

Surprised so many see their queue jumping as the good driving and that anyone who does not let them push in is petty.

I think it's only the people queuing unnecessarily that view it as queue jumping or pushing in, others see it simply as what you're supposed to do.*

*more motorway roadworks, not the example you mentioned above.

Lane blocking is for complete ****s who have no idea how/why we should merge in turn.

Lane blocking is for [s]complete ****s[/s] people who drive in a slightly different way to me who have no idea how/why we should merge in turn.

Surprised so many see their queue jumping as the good driving and that anyone who does not let them push in is petty.

And that's the problem, this perception that it's "queue jumping." It's not queue jumping, the queue is two lanes wide until the merge point. You're just choosing to sit at the back of the longer half.

Say you went to, oh I don't know, the cinema, and there were two tills open at the concessions stand. One had a queue out the door and the other had six customers waiting. Would you join the shorter queue or would you stand in the doorway with your arms out blocking everyone else from getting past?

There's merging with traffic, then there's forcing your way into the other lane at the last minute despite knowing you needed to merge....because you drive an Audi . There, I said it.

Cougar nails it

Even after being a truck driver for twenty years I'm always surprised how normal sane people turn into confrontational nobs when they get behind the wheel,
take the car away and the same people will hold doors open for others, give up seats on buses and trains and are all 'excuse me' excuse you' after you' in daily life,
Cars do strange things to peoples minds IMO....
And blocking a lane is a nobs trick, just cos someone else is a nob doesn't mean you have to join in..

If people were able to merge then there wouldn't be a queue. The queue's are caused by the stop/start motion of those at the front and gets exaggerated further down the line of traffic. Each time someone leaves it until the last moment to "merge" or push in at the front then the driver in the other lane must give way to them slowing down the traffic behind them even more. This creates the concertina effect which makes traffic jams. If drivers merged together the flow of traffic continues albeit slower without the stop and start caused by those with little peckers that must get to the very front regardless of anyone else.

We need signage:

[IMG] [/IMG]

In fact, says Vanderbilt, traffic would be much better off if cars stayed in both lanes then merged at the very end, one by one, like a zipper. It's safer (fewer lane changes), it reduces back-ups (often up to 40 percent), and it quenches road rage (still on the rise).

I'm not sure this explains anything at all Convert me old china. Fewer Lange changes? Less road rage?

Don't get me started on merging...

[IMG] [/IMG]

Yo Cougar, what's up with Imgur?!

My asshatness aside could I counter her polis claim by suggesting it may also be illegal to just park up and leave your car?

(1)If a person, without lawful authority or excuse, in any way wilfully obstructs the free passage along a highway he is guilty of an offence and liable to a fine not exceeding [F1level 3 on the standard scale].

Yes, I would expect a call from the police.

Blocking the outside lane is stupid- there is a reason that the lane is there and it's not to sit there empty. The Tankersley junction below was on my old commute home every day. I would go up the outside lane (not barrelling along mind) whilst a queue of traffic sat on the left. Because to sit in a queue when you don't have to is stupid.

It's stupid for other reasons- look at this map-

[URL= http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/LukeeB/Untitled_zps2d7410e2.pn g" target="_blank">http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n163/LukeeB/Untitled_zps2d7410e2.pn g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

The A61 heading south west from the roundabout at the motorway junction is what I am talking about. It goes from two lanes to one. If traffic queues only in the left hand lane, which they do, traffic backs up onto the roundabout. Which blocks the exit off the M1. Which blocks the M1. Which holds up many hundreds of cars that have nothing to do with your petty "why is he pushing in" battle a mile up the road and off the motorway.

Wrightyson, don't do it, it's stupid and selfish. Either use both lanes properly or sit at home reading the highway code until you understand it properly.

if the congestion is 1 mile down the road, rather than 1/2 mile down the road, as long as it does not lead back across another junction, in what way is merging late helping matters?

Because then you've got a single point where people can merge sensibly and safely 1-2-1-2 rather than a mile of free-for-all chaos where people are carving in and out of lanes whenever they suddenly see a gap slightly larger than their car.

Let me turn that around. in what way is merging [s]late[/s] at the correct point [i]not[/i] helping matters?

Yeah but Cougar. There is only one till. That is the problem.

If people were able to merge then there wouldn't be a queue.

Your analogy is poor as there has to be only one till. I would expect everyone to join at the back of the queue if there was just one till rather than run down the outside and "zip" at the front whilst telling me it was more efficient and i was wrrong and that they were not queue jumping.

FWIW its an interesting views and the link given above that we should do the zipper [ as its quicker] probably has soem truth and merit to it but the perception remains that folk are doing it just to save themselves time rather than help out anyone else and they are queue jumping.

I assume that is why they have barriers to make us queue

Do you form two queues to the barrier point [ the merge point] and zip or just join the end of the line?

I dont think you will find an example out of cars were folk can or do behave like this. We queue. its in our nature

FWIW in egypt the queue for the bus like we do . once it stops and the doors opens it a mad free for all and the queue was pointless,

dullness has ensued - can someone wake me up when the police arrive?

Let me turn that around. in what way is merging late at the correct point not helping matters?

No it's more like 1 till, but with 2 lines leading up to it. However it's raining, and the people at the back of the line are all having to queue outside getting wet whilst those sensible enough to realise there's another queue are inside and dry. There is room however for everybody to be dry.

My second question is why those people trying to merge at the last minute are invariably driving Audis

[img] [/img]

I think I prefer the Italian way of just getting on with it as fast and often chaotically as possible.

Yes theres a lot of horn beeping but no pretty bitterness to other road users, everyone seems to know exactly how wide their car is and no one fannies around.

That "Merge like a zip!" sign is quality! We need a load of them putting up around the UK.

As others have already noted, the one that really boils my piss is two lanes going to two different places.. Coming out of Newcastle towards the A1 there is a dual carriageway - left lanes goes South (always backed up 1/2 mile+) and the right lane goes North (generally empty and the lane that takes me home). At least a couple of times a week some penis flies up the right and jabs their brakes on a dives left right in front of me. If no-one lets them in I'm sat stationary staring at the back of their stationary car and an empty road ahead. Fair to say I've lost my shit a fair few times on that stretch of road...

From a fluid point of view it's a receiver feeding an orifice. The orifice will only allow a maximum flow rate regardless of receiver size but, a larger receiver will damp variations in upstream flow.

Does that sound like bull?!

Your analogy is poor as there has to be only one till. I would expect everyone to join at the back of the queue if there was just one till rather than run down the outside and "zip" at the front whilst telling me it was more efficient and i was wrrong and that they were not queue jumping.

It's the same principle, because both lines are still taking part in the queuing process. You're in the queue regardless of which side you choose to stand on, it's "two tills" because both of those lines will get served equally at the end, just like the two lanes of the road.

"One till" would be analogous to the other scenario I described, like the road in Colne. With the two lanes going to different places, someone zipping up the right hand lane is not taking part in the queuing process and just diving in at the end. Up until the point they queue jump they were headed somewhere else.

But ok, a one till analogy, if you insist. More like a barman at a busy bar, then. The barman is serving the patrons in turn as they arrive at the bar. For some reason, maybe it's an odd room shape or something, the left-hand side of the bar is twelve deep, but over at the right it's only one or two deep. You arrive. Where do you stand?

Your analogy is poor as there has to be only one till. I would expect everyone to join at the back of the queue if there was just one till rather than run down the outside and "zip" at the front whilst telling me it was more efficient and i was wrrong and that they were not queue jumping.

never been ski-ing then...

Your analogy is poor as there has to be only one till. I would expect everyone to join at the back of the queue if there was just one till rather than run down the outside and "zip" at the front whilst telling me it was more efficient and i was wrrong and that they were not queue jumping.

But you wouldn't be able to run down the outside if there was an equal size queue on either side, both queues would be the same size. By doing it this way, you've not got one long queue blocking access to the popcorn counter.

Your analogy is poor as there has to be only one till. I would expect everyone to join at the back of the queue if there was just one till rather than run down the outside and "zip" at the front whilst telling me it was more efficient and i was wrrong and that they were not queue jumping.

Ok then, the woman running the (single) till takes a person from each queue in turn. There is still one with 50 people, and one with 2. Which do you join?

Regularly see a roundabout near me completely deadlocked due to a queue going right across it, yet there is at least 500m of completely empty lane that 50% of the twerps could go into to clear it. Absolutely braindead. Same thing every day. They even put signs up saying "Use Both Lanes", but nobody does.

A61 in Chesterfield?

During the roadworks there were regualrly morons blocking the inside lane causing gridlock on the preceeding roundabout despite the huge signs saying "USE BOTH LANES". They should add "YOU ******* MORON" to the sign and see if that works.

Each time someone leaves it until the last moment to "merge" or push in at the front then the driver in the other lane must give way to them slowing down the traffic behind them even more. This creates the concertina effect which makes traffic jams.

The queue isn't caused by late mergers, it's caused by idiots blocking people from merging, tailgating the car in front and generally being a moron and other people braking heaviliy too early trying to merge when they don't need to. If everyone just merged like a zip then there is no braking and no queue.

Often you will queue for ages as people randomly merge way before the lane disapears and by the time you reach the narrow point you are free flowing again. It's not where the merge happens that prevents the queue but the orderlyness of everyone doing it at the same point. You could do this at 1 mile before but there wouldn't be any consistency so it would be chaos (and the tailback is longer than it needs to be)

The upside to the merging seems to be that it uses half the road space.

I haven't worked out what the downside to it is other than requiring people to be civil. Can anyone explain it?

[*]I did get a visit from the police some years ago after a similar incident. The copper argued that I should have moved to the front of the empty right hand lane. I argued that there is often space up the side of queues to the tills in shops but I wouldn't consider using that either. After a while he went away.

As a member (pfffnarrr) of the emergency services I can say yes you will get a visit from the police. You will then spend the rst of your days as a shower plaything for Mr. Big in Wormwood Scrubs.
We have far better things to do than speak to drivers about road manners. Donuts don't dunk themselves y'know.

Ok then, the woman running the (single) till takes a person from each queue in turn. There is still one with 50 people, and one with 2. Which do you join?

The upside to the merging seems to be that it uses half the road space.

I haven't worked out what the downside to it is other than requiring people to be civil. Can anyone explain it?

Circumstance dependent.

In the image below is a junction where the road goes single lane, turning to a double lane just where the bus is, double lane through the lights, immediate merge back to single lane after the lights. I believe it's like this to allow people to turn right into Station Flooring without blocking straight through traffic.

Traffic gets busy here, but every morning they'll be someone who decides that they're way to important to wait in a queue and who will therefore zoom up the outside, through the lights and then attempt to cut back in having jumped 10 or 20 cars.

Wrong, IMO.

[img] [/img]

c'mon op, which junction? Where? more evidence needed before judge cougar can determine sentencing!

we're just generalizing (sp) otherwise

Once the left hand lane has to stop then how does zooming up the right hand lane help efficiency?

If there's roughly equal numbers of people in each lane there is no zooming going on.

OP - I have done, would have done and will continue to do the same thing as you in that situation.
If everyone did the same, it'd stop happening maybe.

Why do people think there is 2 lanes? It certainly isn't because the council had so much money and left over Tarmac they needed somewhere to put it.
Use both lanes and merge in turn. The reason it often doesn't work is because of everyone's insistance on queuing and not not allowing the merging of traffic to happen efficiently. If everyone joined the back of the shortest queue and then merged in turn it would work. The 2nd lane never ever finishes at a dead stop it always merges into lane 1. The system doesn't work because of so many peoples insistance that they are morally superior because they are queuing.