[Closed] On Thin Ice

You forgot his worst affliction...the ginger beard. 😆

Yes, great line and well delivered too. Really enjoyed this program. Odd how at the start you would have laid good money on Fogle being the weak link but he coped remarkably well.

Can't say I was a fan - Mrs T was not impressed when I said that the last half hour was the best - but all in all not bad

And yes! I forgot the GING-GER beard! 😆

Fogle is a great guy.

Cracknell ... hhhmmmm ... that guy needs to relax.

I've not watched it, but what they were doing was slagged off by a proper explorer/climber I follow on Twitter:

"watched Thin Ice last night. Worst tactics I've ever seen: hubris, misguided heroics, short sited, machismo. classic brit tail of woe"

"if cracknell and @Benfogle try this on Everest (obvious next challenge) one of them will die"

"Arctic travel is very,very simple, with almost 0 risk. U just have to look after yourself. If you don't you make your own epic."

"They all just looked very stupid, and I felt pretty ashamed just imagining how shambolic us brits must seem."

- http://dabr.co.uk/user/psychovertical

Everyones a critic eh?

They came in 2nd, not too shabby considering their complete lack of experience.

I really enjoyed the series but it ended too quickly for me and the program didn't give the overall times & positions of all of the other competitors.
And the program didn't summarise the difficulties and heroics of all of the other teams, making it hard to compare their achievements. Did other teams have more problems or get lost or give up?
Could the team have done better without Cracknell (and the subsequent delays caused by his poor condition) or did the team need Cracknell inspite of his condition to keep them focused & driven?
I think that they may have folded if Cracknell had not been allowed to continue.

didn't they just film in the tent and spend all the off screen time in the BBC hospitality suite snow crawler? the royal icing effect on the beards was particularly effective i thought 🙂

I didn't get into it at all, but did watch the last 2 episodes...an impressive accomplishment, especially considering how inexperienced they were. Couple of times I was shouting at the tv to just lamp Cracknell for his stupidity but that is in his make up as a person I guess.

Didn't inspire me to want to see the rest of the series but it impressed me nonetheless.

2nd overall is seriously good, would have liked to have seen how the other teams did and what incidents they experienced (like the 2 uncharted crevass regions)...did anyone loose a team mate or anything? Something to compare their adventure against the competition. We also don't know how long the Norwegians beat them by...I reckon it was close by a few hours only...

Cracknell was a complete arse. He might be a strong man in a boat, but to put his team mates lives at risk in the crevasse field was totally irresponsible. And don't get me started on the things he said to the doctor who had been patching his feet for 500km.

I would have loved to have seen one of them punch him in the mouth as they crossed the finishing line.

The man is a liability on such expeditions.

[i]"watched Thin Ice last night. Worst tactics I've ever seen: hubris, misguided heroics, short sited, machismo. classic brit tail of woe"[/i]

Jealousy?

They came in second though didn't they. Tactics seemed about right to me. Pushed to the edge and were beaten only by the Norwegians. If it had been a there and back race they would have been shafted, but over the distance they raced, they seemed to get it about right.

I can't watch anything with Ben Fogle in after that ridiculous Extreme Dreams thing he did. Second only to Bear Grylls in terms of ludicrous fakery and hyping up of any potential risks.

geoffj: I doubt the blogger who miketually quoted, Andy Kirkpatrick, has anything to feel jealous about towards Fogle et al.

geoffj: I doubt the blogger who miketually quoted, Andy Kirkpatrick, has anything to feel jealous about towards Fogle et al.

Maybe, but that doesn't stop him being wrong abut the tactics.

Hmm, they were very Scottesque rahter than Shackletoneesque.
Hero, milk tray man rubbish.

Cocknell is an embarrassment - disregarding his attitude in previous episodes, his attitude about ignoring frostbite, his walking, unroped, into a crevass field, his mental breakdown and his attitude to Dr Ed - the very same person who nursed him through most of the race - were diabolical.

No doubt he is a very driven man, but that same drive could have led to the death of himself or others.

Respect to Fogle and Dr Ed though - they were amazing.

2nd best line......
(Paraphrasing, cos I can't remember it exactly)

Cracknell, in need of a pee.....

'can somone hold this for me'

'Why?"

'Well, I have got frostbite in me fingers....'

Hero, milk tray man rubbish.

"Arctic travel is very,very simple, with almost 0 risk. U just have to look after yourself. If you don't you make your own epic."

Surely everyone with a bit of common sense - regardless of whether they have been to the Arctic or not - knows this is cobblers. I've not read the link but I have read Andy Kirkpatrick's stuff many times and I can't believe this has come from him. Of course you have to look after yourself, but you cannot mitigate against every eventuality. Spending a month in temperatures of -40 is a risk in itself. My Uncle spent 18 months living and working in Antarctica and I think he would feel pretty miffed hearing a comment like that from a fellow mountaineer.

That said, I thought Cracknell was an asre.

I think, in simple terms, Artic travel IS *relatively* easy.

Like riding a bike is easy.

But riding a bike for 16 hours a day, every day for a month, isn't easy.

So what I am trying to say is - to travel in -40 conditions is manageable given the right clothes and preparation, but pushing their bodies to physical limits in those conditions brought unique problems, which don't appear to have been really addressed in the comment.

I've got to give total credit to those guys. This wasn't just "arctic travel" it was an endurance race in Antarctica. Despite some errors of judgement they managed second place. Big (non-sarcastic) hand clap from me.

The wife and I really enjoyed this. That sound in the crevasse fields of the ice breaking away underneath them was completely blood-chilling...

Lots of tutting going on at Cracknell's attitude and behaviour but glad they made it in the end. It must be so strange to come home and walk in (slightly!) warmer UK temperatures, without pulling a heavy pulk behind you after having been out there for an entire month.

I know he gets slated for being emotional but I think Fogel seems like a genuinely nice & caring chap. Good on him and the Dr.

I was reading an account on a climbing forum of someone who had been on a TV show with Fogel (think it was Extreme Dreams in fact). Said they were completely mis-represented (even to the extent of saying she did a different job to her real one back at home), and Fogle was incredibly arrogant, vain, self-centred, and only concerned with how he would look on tv.

Make of that what you will.

Here you go - from about half way down - poster called Shoegal

http://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php?t=285210&v=1#x4233064

Hats off to them for coming second. Hats on again for the gung ho approach which at times seemed madness but got them the result I suppose, and for Cracknell's daftness - the others had to manage around him like he was a spoilt kid. Team dynamics under pressure interesting to watch though.

I'd agree it didn't quite tie things up at the finish really. I'd have liked a bit more in depth stuff on the kit they were using, the other teams, the aftermath etc. This boys own stuff made good family viewing for us though.

Splendid programme. Unlike so much reality tv this one played with real cards and real stakes. Don't forget it's still only telly though, it has to tell a story. And a story I'd imagine Cracknell had an editorial hand in.

I've been on trips with people pulling in different directions like that, interesting to see the dynamics played out over a single casual word.

There was far too little blubbing in it for me though - I get quite emotional if I miss a night's sleep 🙂

It's probably a useful insight into how the psychology of success in certain fields, such as olympic rowing, isn't necessarily suited to other environments. Cracknell's ability to push on regardless of his own discomfort is probably a real asset when he's in pain in the final of an olympic rowing event. In the context of an endurance event, it appeared as more of a liability, causing him to make basic errors of judgement that resulted in a deteriorating performance.

Hasn't there been quite a lot written about this in terms of high altitude mountaineering - how 'summit fever' causes people to ignore the messages from their body and their situation (weather etc) and push on when it's blindingly obvious outside that context that it's the wrong choice.

I honestly think that, if it were not for Dr Ed and Fogle reigning him in everso slightly (for example, when the Doc insisted on them setting up camp towards the end), Cocknell could have quite literally killed himself, which was a shameful thing to allow himself to do with a 6 year old child waiting for him at home.

Cracknell's ability to push on regardless of his own discomfort is probably a real asset when he's in pain in the final of an olympic rowing event. In the context of an endurance event, it appeared as more of a liability

i didnt find my arctic warefare course particularly easy was fun tho. didnt watch the show tho as they both get on my tits 😉

I cant believe some of the comments on here. I havent got any qualifications in pyscology but this programme could have been scripted from the start.

For example, why are people suprised at the personality traits of these people.

Ben Fogel - Well known for his emotional outbursts. A bit flimsy untill the chips are down and then he is able to back things up with sheer determination and inner strength. He is also a little vain.

James Cracknell - double olympic champion who is used to training himself to standards way in excess of a normal person. Self centred to the point of obsession and used to winning. Will risk nearly everything for the win and is used to ignoring his body crying out in pain.

Dr Ed - Not so much known about him but he must be driven to help others and be very patient and understanding.

What i see is a group of people that actually complement each other perfectly for a team event. Imagine having two Cracknells or two Bens? It just wouldnt work. It made for good watching. Calling James a cock/arse imo is wrong, he complimented the other two perfectly as did they to him.

And regarding earlier comments about how they acted in their FIRST ever Artic RACE, well i think they are a little harsh. No one knows how they would act in that situation which is part of the basis for the programme. It was also a race which meant they were up against other teams and up against time. In competition i imagine things are a lot different to just surviving there. Yes i appreciate the basics will be the same but they werent there just to survive.

I honestly think that, if it were not for Dr Ed and Fogle reigning him in everso slightly (for example, when the Doc insisted on them setting up camp towards the end), Cocknell could have quite literally killed himself, which was a shameful thing to allow himself to do with a 6 year old child waiting for him at home.

Thats my point exactly though. They are a team who complimented each other. Wasnt this the point of the exhaustive selection process? I dread to think what would happen if they had found another James Cracknell.

This is the link to the race website although it seems a bit borked right now. Might have results and stuff on it.

http://www.thesouthpolerace.com/

I think the point people were making, was the Cracknell was shown making a clearly bad choice several times - which helped nobody at all, least himself.
Being driven as he is, was obviously a necessary attribute for the team but he just didn't seem to look after himself properly & in the end it looked like it slowed them up a little because of that.

I've been very interested in this programme, partly because I've just finished Ranulph Fiennes' autobiography, but mostly because I went to school with Ed. He's a great guy, very genuine, his character come across perfectly in the series. You won't find anyone saying he's a **** in real life.

On another note, it's a bit galling to see posters advertising the book-of-the-series-of-the-race with just James and Ben on the front. I know he's the previously non famous one, but's it's not as if he was just making the tea!

Not watched the last episode yet though, iplayer awaits!

If anyone's interested in Polar travel and endurance racing, they should read "Mad, Bad and Dangerous to Know", Fiennes' autobiography - GREAT book.

In effect, most arctic travel is a race whether there's another team involved or not, because you've got to minimise the weight you're carrying, so your food has to be finely judged based on close to the maximum travel per day you can cope with. And in Fiennes' case, he was going for records most of the time.

I just thought Cracknell was incredibly selfish, the bit where he didn't put on the harness in the crevasse field really peed me off, especially as earlier he was blubbing about missing his family.

Anyone know if its repeated on actual TV (NOT the i player).

BBC2's SignZone do repeat it - with signing of course - but can't remember the day

It's just a programme guys, edited to look interesting.

It's just a programme guys, edited to look interesting.

i think the actor bloke would be dead if he had showed up

Worst tactics I've ever seen: hubris, misguided heroics, short sited, machismo. classic brit tail of woe"

It's TV, that's what they do on TV. If they all coped perfectly, got on fine and had no problems it'd be boring TV (for some viewers at least).

Results....

Missing Link 19:03, 21st January - 17 days 8 hours 58 minutes

QinetiQ 15:15, 22nd January - 18 days 5 hours 10 minutes

Danske Bank 17:00, 24th January - 20 days 6 hours 55 minutes

Due South 16:10, 26th January - 22 days 6 hours 5 minutes

South Pole Flag 22:09, January - 22 days 12 hours 4 minutes

So in the end the Norwegians were 20 hours ahead - would love to know what sort of condition they were in & how they managed it given the punishing schedule the tv people took on.
Would've been interesting as well to see how the 'slower' teams managed themselves as well. Perhaps the doc would've worked a little better if it gave an rough overview of the whole race rather than concentrating 100% on fogle etc..

Worst tactics I've ever seen: hubris, misguided heroics, short sited, machismo. classic brit tail of woe

That may be true, but if they did everything wrong, and still came 2nd only to an incredibly strong pair of ex special-forces polar travel experts, that blogger could have given them at least a [i]"PS: hats off!"[/i] I'd have thought.

And no matter how much Andy KP has done, I'd be surprised if he wasn't a weenie bit jealous, if only because of the thought of how much better he could have done, with his better knowledge of expedition racing tactics.

I'm sceptical about these televised "adventures".

There's Gear Brylls hanging from his fingernails telling you how dangerous and remote this is and we forget that there's a guy doing the same thing a few feet away, and he's also running the camera and sound, but it's just his job.

Not to mention the rest of the support team.

As for a Race to the Pole, there was never any danger of serious consequences with the backup they had.