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As shown by the famous
E=mc2
Hmm and how do you split the hydrogen from water?
ah well, now that's a different question. I was merely pointing you at the hydrogen source that you asked for.
I don't know that we could separate it from the water. But we could try boiling it off. Like reducing it, like a chicken stock or something. Maybe.
why not burn the water , fire needs oxygen iirc
Leaves the hydrogen behind
we'll still be using/burning oil in 100 years, we won't be using much by then, and it'll be VERY expensive, but we've got 100 years to get fusion working or change our behaviour a bit.really, there's nothing to worry about.
Yep, and those people will be looking back at us and our parents and saying "you lucky, greedy basterds".
Using up all the reserves in a couple hundred years - it's actually really impressive. All we have to do is wait a few million years for it all to reform. Really, there's nothing to worry about.
Maybe fusion will work, maybe it won't. I guess that and nuclear are the only real substitutes that will provide the ever-incresing energy 'hit' that everyone assumes constitutes progress.
Obviously in the meantime the sensible thing to do is burn everything we can get our hands on, as quickly as possible.
dont forget we have to be materially richer each year... you know like a bigger TV , more travel on our carbon frames that sort of thing. A sustainable planet or a future for our children should be wquite low down your list
Blind faith in science to find a solution , whilst ignoring their concerns about global warming, should give you comfort
Memo from the desk of Fahd bin Abdul Aziz
To: All my oil men.
I want more money, make it so.
Memo from the desk of Oil men secretary
To: Fahd bin Abdul Aziz
But sire, you already have more money than you could spend in a thousand lifetimes. Are you sure?
Memo from the desk of Fahd bin Abdul Aziz
To: All my oil men.
Do you want your hands cutting off?
Memo from the desk of Oil men secretary
To: Fahd bin Abdul Aziz
very well sire, your desire is god's wishes.
I suppose we could lie about how much oil we have left, that'd push prices up massively. But we'd have to be subtle, we couldn't just annoounce it, that would be suspicious. We would have to allow the information to leak via a well known whistleblower path into the public domain.
Memo from the desk of Fahd bin Abdul Aziz
To: All my oil men.
Splendid. Thks LOL.
All this aside, should I buy a Ti "bike for life" now or wait ?
ooOOoo - Memberwe'll still be using/burning oil in 100 years, we won't be using much by then, and it'll be VERY expensive, but we've got 100 years to get fusion working or change our behaviour a bit.
really, there's nothing to worry about.
Yep, and those people will be looking back at us and our parents and saying "you lucky, greedy basterds".
Using up all the reserves in a couple hundred years - it's actually really impressive. All we have to do is wait a few million years for it all to reform. Really, there's nothing to worry about.
Maybe fusion will work, maybe it won't. I guess that and nuclear are the only real substitutes that will provide the ever-incresing energy 'hit' that everyone assumes constitutes progress.
Obviously in the meantime the sensible thing to do is burn everything we can get our hands on, as quickly as possible.
and what are you doing to make everything better?
of course, you missed out the bit where i point out that we're changing our behaviour, and in 100years we won't miss oil - we'll have changed our lives so we don't need it anymore.
rising prices of resources will force us to be more careful with their use, this is already happening.
already 15% of our energy is renewable, and increasing. even without nuclear fusion we'll be fine.
oopppsss 😳
still, water as a source of hydrogen for fussion - great
water as a source of hydrogen for oxidation (either through combustion or fuel cells) - crap
Because the energy required to produce hydrogen from sea water is tiny compared to what you produce by converting a tiny little bit of its matter.
molgrips - Member"According to al-Husseini, the [u]crux [/u]of the issue is [u]twofold[/u]. First, it is possible that Saudi reserves are not as bountiful as sometimes described.."
I can't believe no-one has picked up on the most offensive part of that quote:
A crux [b][i]cannot [/i][/b]be twofold... Pleb...
and what are you doing to make everything better?of course, you missed out the bit where i point out that we're changing our behaviour, and in 100years we won't miss oil - we'll have changed our lives so we don't need it anymore.
Haven't had a car for five years. Trying to design products that use less resources. What have you done?
I hope you're right, but even with the knowledge of the problems we have now, most behaviour has changed chuff all. Wouldn't it better if we could make that remaining oil last 1000 years?
If you count up all the energy slaves (cars, electric, heating etc.) we have in our western lives, I cannot see how we can replace the energy we get from under ground, from anything above ground. Even uranium is a finite resource.
Are you familiar with the concept of 'current solar income'?
Trying to design products that use less resources
Wish someone would give me a job doing that! I'd be bloody brilliant at it but I've got no chance of getting one.
A sustainable source of Hydrogen for fuel cells would be if the electricity used for electrolysis was generated by renewable means. The process itself is dead simple (done it myself as a demo) - it makes a cracking bang when you ignite it and turn it back into water... (minuscule amounts I should add)
A sustainable source of Hydrogen for fuel cells would be if the electricity used for electrolysis was generated by renewable means
This is an example of using hydrogen as an energy storage medium and is not without some merit. It does however have many drawbacks and to be honest, if there is a use for it, you'd be better off just using the electricity for whatever you are buring the hydrogen for as it would almost certainly be more efficient.
Back to OP, it didn't take Wikileaks really to tell us, it's been know for years, and published, that the Saudi's have been egging up their reserves.
At least now more people will get the point, so that's good.
Wiles, I don't think we're any where near 15% renewable yet. However I don't think anyone has to worry, the system WILL correct itself. However, whether this correction comes from massive changes in behaviour, incredible scientific discovery or gigantic corrections in the worlds population, equilibrium will be reached.
Personally, I'm sharpening my killing sticks as I type.
ooOOoo - Member[b]Haven't had a car for five years[/b]. Trying to design products that use less resources. What have you done?
see? - there you go, we are changing our behaviour.
what have i done? - it's a good question, but i don't like point-scoring so i'll just say that i've made some changes to my lifestyle.
and i think most people can say something similar.
yes, the next 50/100 years are going to be very interesting, and not always for fab and groovy reasons.
i'd like to see us doing more, but our civilisation is like a fat middle-aged man, sat on the sofa, watching top-gear on dave, eating pizza while it's raining heavily outside.
and you know what? - the fat middle aged man is thinking about getting off his backside and going out for a run. i haven't written him off yet.
Hmmmm yes, some of us are making changes. Some will make an impact, some is just window dressing. But I feel generally most people don't fully appreciate how much stuff they use. The world has been designed to hide it. Many of us designers are starting to realise this, but the question is can we change the infrastructure faster than people change their behaviour.
And remember a lot of India & China have only just opened the door to the lounge, and quite fancy taking a long rest on that sofa. After all they'd say, they've been out in the rain looking in at us for some time.
But I feel generally most people don't fully appreciate how much stuff they use.
+1.
Our entire economy is set up to consume more and more - there's no getting away from it.
ooOoo: "Are you familiar with the concept of 'current solar income'?" Not put that way, but if you mean available energy the it's utterly enormous.
Ways of getting at it will still improve somewhat, but many exist already, and mostly it's political will which is lacking. Very sadly many governments are also firmly in the pockets of the coal, oil and auto industry.
Desert insallations are already being set up though. When the Saudi's have finished making a mint from their oil they'll sure as hell make a mint from their humumgous solar capacity.
When the Saudi's have finished making a mint from their oil they'll sure as hell make a mint from their humumgous solar capacity
How're they going to export it?
With high voltage DC cables
How're they going to export it?
Superconductors and carbon nanotubule batteries.
carbon nanotubule batteries
where the hell are these things?!!
I read about them 3 or 4 years ago and not sniff since!
Supposed to blow LiPo out of the water on energy density 🙁
How're they going to export it?
Take one satellite, hang a mirror off it, point a load of other mirrors at the satelite and park one of these in Slough to catch it all.
[img] 
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Plug it into the national grid and hey presto!
HVDC is what will happen. It's already going in for many undersea cable links. Doesn't need any fancy stuff. The only reason for the power grid we have today at 50Hz is historical becauase of wirewound transformers. Modern electronics makes DC/DC step-up possible and the losses are massively lower than AC grids.
That pic is a plant in Spain. Nothing to do with satellites..
Nothing to do with satellites..
I know. They're using it rong though!
swap that tower out and stick it at the receiver end, focus the mirror arrays onto the mirror in space, bounce all that super lovely solar energy to the receiver in slough and boom, lots of hot water.
Im a genius me. I just need a cat and a lair and Im good to go.
[url= http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=carbon-nanotubes-boost-power-of-lithium-battery ]carbon nanotube battery. [/url] not there yet.