As much as addicts aren't to be trusted, they are still human beings. They are still someone's son, daughter, husband, wife, father etc.
To leave someone to possibly die, is pretty heartless. To leave someone to possibly die for hitting your front door ...... I'd like to think most people have more compassion.
I’m a trained fighter so facing a guy with a possible knife in fight mode is different.
Yeah,I’m calling bollocks on this one. Define trained fighter for me? What were you trained to do in a situation where someone pulls a knife?
For balance, I spent many years learning various fighting techniques from boxing to grappling and Muay Thai. Running away is what I was told for knife defence if. If not an option then grab the knife arm with both your hands and try to get it off them and then run away. Anything else is reserved for Hollywood.
IME of junkies they are pathetic creatures hardly likely to be able to use a knife. High they are slow and not bothered by stuff. Strung out its all they can think of is the next fix
Much more likely to be stabbed by a drunk or someone high on cocaine
Trained fighter? Like this?
In my experience, people that talk this way are the first ones to fill their trousers or cry when the stool hits the fan.
Maybe ,maybe not but it’s that assumption there that’s very dangerous, secondly when I moved to Sheffield a few years back there were and still are lads on this estate that would put a bullet in you for helping a smack head they have had issues with , and there’s been 6 firearms incidents in the past year alone so you go and tell yourself I’m a shite or do whatever you have to to make yourself morally superior
Don’t assume you know me or who I’ve had to be to get out of a hell hole
Seems to be mainly drug dealers in rival gangs with the occasional innocent bystander involved. So did any of those six incidents involve a member of the public being shot for helping someone? Not judging, just curious. I spent a few years living in some shithole areas and I too was glad to get out. Managed to retain my compassion though
secondly when I moved to Sheffield a few years back there were and still are lads on this estate that would put a bullet in you for helping a smack head they have had issues with
Cool story.
But you didn't advocate for leaving our hypothetical junkie alone, you advocated for kicking him in the head.
So if your backstory is that you'd like to avoid getting shot, how would kicking a drug addict in the head help you avoid the attentions of said shooters? I'm not an expert in drug dealers, but I'd say they might have an opinion about someone kicking their customers in the head for no reason. Either way, it's definitely going to get the attention of the very people you're professing you want to avoid.
Don’t assume you know me or who I’ve had to be to get out of a hell hole
Don't go around advocating violence against people on an internet forum if you don't like people disagreeing with you.
Violence is never the answer to any problem.
Seems to be the way society works. Why else do we have weapons, guns, bombs and all.
i'm 6'3" about 15 stone, broken knuckles and nose from fighting throughout school and while on the streets.
Seems that it is the answer sometimes. Right or wrong, nobody is denying that, it is part of human condition.
Houns, for a sanctimonious virtue signaller you're quick to judge and name call, I hadnt resorted to insulting you despite your bizarre grasp of the situation, you've concocted a alternative version of events and ignored the facts from the person who was present. Why are people still assuming he might of just slumped against my door in need of help, he tried to break my door open and had a second attempt whilst holding down the handle, my assessment of the situation was spot on, trust me I was there, last night I found out he was in another back yard several houses up and a lad watched him from his bedroom window attack my door, the scumbag was reaching for a boulder in my yard when my light came on, the boulder had been moved which confirms it, at that point I heard him swearing at me before he f#cked off. Some of you on here are making weird assumptions and even seem to know what drugs he was on, facts are he was high, psychotic, aggressive, violent and extremely unpredictable. Three paramedics just let him walk off a few minutes after waking him up, so so much for him needing medical help.
Why am I being judged for leaving a nutter who just damaged my door on the floor when the emergency services did just that, the operator on the phone didn't even ask me to check on him.
Funkmasterp call bs all you want, I didnt say I trained with knifes, my point was when I'm angry n ready to fight it doesnt matter, I've tackled a guy who had a crowbar before and spent a night in the cells because of it, despite barely touching him.
If you must know, boxing, kickboxing, and a few years of karate when I was little.
Wow - such a big hard man and at the same time too feart to help someone in distress!
i’m 6’3″ about 15 stone, broken knuckles and nose from fighting throughout school and while on the streets.
Seems that it is the answer sometimes.
Funnily enough, I'm 6'3" and almost 15 stone with a shaved head.
Never been in a fight or hit anyone. My nose is still it's original shape and no broken knuckles despite the years on dodgy estates and in rough schools.
I'll take my outlook, thanks.
I’m a trained fighter
I didn't know this thread was going to go 100% comedy!
Yeah, all that information you just gave would’ve been really useful in your first post wouldn’t it? Not on the third page of the thread.
I once tackled a drunk driver trying to flee from a crash he caused. Even restrained him. Didn’t end up in the cells though. Just interviewed at home afterwards by a friendly copper.
Some of you on here are making weird assumptions and even seem to know what drugs he was on, facts are he was high, psychotic, aggressive, violent and extremely unpredictable.
There's some assumptions of your own in there, to be fair. If the paramedics considered him a serious danger to himself or others or psychotic, chances are they'd have taken steps to have him sectioned.
Three paramedics just let him walk off a few minutes after waking him up, so so much for him needing medical help.
If he doesn't want to be helped, there's not a lot they can do. They can't really hold him against his will unless he's being sectioned.
They can try to convince him to get help, but unless proven otherwise, he has the assumed capacity to make his own decisions, including refusing treatment. The fact that they've left him suggests their risk assessment was not as severe as yours.
Look, you're probably right, he most likely was an addict trying to break in, but your OP gave enough room for the doubters to start poking holes and some of the subsequent attitudes on display were bound to provoke a debate. What were you hoping for when you started this thread? Validaiton, sympathy or a bit of an argument? This is the internet, not the lads down the pub, people are going to disagree with you.
Frank Begbie is alive and well and on Singletrack.
Sorry funk, didnt know someone saw it until last night,
I've made it clear it was a bloody big impact and the guy was crazy, I cant help people assuming and making up their own versions. The story hasn't changed, what did I leave out exactly, some sad pathetic keyboard pussies are still having a pop, sarcastic "ohh you're hard" very predictable, grow up. I'm not trying to make out I'm a big tough guy, im just being honest. If attacking me makes you feel better about yourself, well it is just lame AF.
The post was about a disappointing response from emergency services especially the police not turning up, but now it's a character assassination, I wasnt after sympathy or an argument, but people on here need to look at what they've become.
Reaching for a boulder and the description of what happened to your door is very different up there to what it was in your OP. Different folk have different opinions. This thread was bound to have some conflicting views in it tbh
Like I said, I just found out about the boulder from the lad up the street. How people confuse an almighty whallop with a slump against the door or a knock is beyond me.
Fin after falling asleep on wet concrete for over an hour he was a completely different person to the psycho attacking my front door. Maybe the three paramedics and the bright lights waking him up altered his mood.
But why are people still assuming he was in distress.
Look, you’re probably right, he most likely was an addict trying to break in, but your OP gave enough room for the doubters to start poking holes
I'm sorry but it was pretty clear from the op that the guy was trying to break in. The guys that doubted it were guys just looking to argue the toss. We even had folk trying to make out he may have been in need of medical attention etc etc..😒 either they ar just being argumentative, or they are genuinely very naive.
As for junkies being harmless and will run away when challenged, not in my experience. Only time in my life I've thoroughly crapped myself was when I told a couple of junkies to piss off out of my stairwell where they had decided to smoke what I assumed was smack...guy threatened me with a needle. Suffice to say I was up those stairs quicker than a quick thing..
Hence I'd not be so charitable in assisting as some of you lot claim you'd be..
I’m a trained fighter
i’m 6’3″ about 15 stone, broken knuckles and nose from fighting throughout school and while on the streets.
Hmm....where have I heard those quotes before?
Oh yes, 16 years as a prison officer. I heard that or similar almost every day & often saw or heard about the 'trained fighter' & 6'3" mincehead get flattened by some scrawny kid from Leeds or Teesside. The bigger you are & the bigger your mouth is, the harder you'll fall.
As for the OP's tale, If it'd been me I'd probably have called the police 1st & followed him. If I later found him out cold I'd have called an ambulance but kept a distance. Why not go & check him closely? Because I've seen too many situations where people have been spiced up. They often go off on one then suddenly have a lie down only to suddenly jump up & kick off again, lashing out violently, biting, kicking, foaming at the mouth & generally going ballistic. I've been in situations where It's taken 4 or 5 officers to control a prisoner in that sort of state. Scary at times.
Never been in a fight or hit anyone. My nose is still it’s original shape and no broken knuckles despite the years on dodgy estates and in rough schools.
Too many shortarses in Glasgow 😆 Besides I think it was more my outspoke'ness, I always ended up in a fight. Must have averaged one a week.
Oddly enough I met one of the guys i always use to battle with, while in a pub a few years back, he was the same height now as then and i towered above him. and we had one of those both apologizing for our actions then, but decades ago and I bought him a pint.
16 years as a prison officer.
Where abouts. I was in Risley, then got shifted to a secure unit just outside Wrexham. Would have been '88
Tpbiker, thank you, means a lot, this is more stressful than the event at 3.45am .
Esselgruntfuttock, I did all those things that you described, so thanks, I think.
Where abouts. I was in Risley,
Started at Durham, moved to Frankland then Wealstun Cat C in 2004. Only person I knew of at Risley was an SO called Dave Hart. He was our instructor at Newbold Revel when I was there.
Knowing Esselgruntfuttock's background and experience his description of how he would have acted in the circumstances seems the most sensible course of action to follow.
I think anyone searching for an innocent explanation of the individual's actions is stretching the boundaries of possibility given the time and location of the incident.
Despite what some have said there would be a real risk trying to assist this individual - the op probably assumed that there would have been a reasonably swift response from the emergency services and I get the point that he was trying to raise about the lack of response - it really is a thine blue line.
You guys are good lot, at least my experience. At the time, and it was my 18th birthday i got arrested(Nothing bad, more self protection type of thing. I was young and angry, and they talked me out of things. 8)
Cool.
Oh heavens, ive a nostalgic tear going on now. See what youve done 😆
Yeah. crazy times. I found all the staff and those at the secure unit were more clued up on youth. I even met and had a talk with Michael Heseltine Douglas Hurdwhile there.
I did the classic. Why are you here ?- I got caught, which kind of broke the ice, though I mind then I was a bit taken aback by my own words and thought oh oh, im in bother, but he laughed and we had a chat.
But why are people still assuming he was in distress.
Because he is lying on the ground motionless for a period of time on a cold night.
Despite what some have said there would be a real risk trying to assist this individual
It may be real but its infinitesimal. There is a significant risk to leaving him lying there. People die under those circumstances
Obviously its hard to know what i would have done as i wasn't there but I know I would have been out to check on him - I have a professional obligation to do so. Cautious approach, shout to him if still no movement roll into recovery position, pulse check is probably as far as i would have gone.
I always mix those two up,Heseltine the ex soldier.
Oddly enough, Mum said some lord phoned her looking for me, about that time. She couldnt remember who it was exactly, mores the pity.
Funny story #194
When i got moved, they moved my homeless kit with me, which apparently nobody wanted to touch, given the smell and all. And while in with the warden, police and social worker I opened it and sai, you'd better have this then and passed over a huge Rambo type knife. There were glances around that room, and ill wager someone else was in trouble 😆 😆
Multiple threads here so sorry to the OP, but im feeling this way currently. 😳
It may be real but its infinitesimal. There is a significant risk to leaving him lying there. People die under those circumstances
I wouldn't say the risk is extremely small. It's perhaps not likely but it's not negligible.
And why should the op be expected to take any risk, no matter how small, for someone who has just tried to break into his house? I'd be prepared to take a risk on my own safety to help a random in trouble for sure. But in the ops situation..I'd be doing exactly as esselgrunt has described..
In fairness to the op, despite all the 'scum of the earth chat', he called an ambulance. Some of you are making out he just left him to die on the street!
Funnily enough, I’m 6’3″ and almost 15 stone with a shaved head.
Never been in a fight or hit anyone. My nose is still it’s original shape and no broken knuckles despite the years on dodgy estates and in rough schools.
Snap, but im about 13stone and entering the stage of my life when I have come to terms with the fact I will soon have a shaved head.
And why should the op be expected to take any risk
because someone might die.
Edit - if it had been summer I would be less concerned
entering the stage of my life when I have come to terms with the fact I will soon have a shaved head.
Off topic, but having been there, do it NOW. and no-one will even really notice. I definitely got a six month period when I should have committed! Google Photos is not kind!
because someone might die.
Seems reasonable.
There have been a fair few times I've tried to help people out. I got myself covered in blood helping a car crash victim from his vehicle, and gave CPR to a woman who'd had an electric shock, unsuccessfully unfortunately. Twice I've put myself at some risk doing sea rescues, once on a stormy beach and once when SCUBA diving. I felt reasonably confident doing these things as I've had some training and could assess the risks.
If someone was loudly banging on my door at 3am then collapsed outside I'd be shitting myself - I really wouldn't know how to respond. Emergency services of course, but I don't think I'd be getting too close to the person.
The only time anything remotely similar happened and I called the police their response was "Thank you for calling. Do not get yourself involved".
entering the stage of my life when I have come to terms with the fact I will soon have a shaved head.
And a big fat tummy 😉 😆
As for junkies being harmless and will run away when challenged, not in my experience.
Except in this case he did. That's the entire point people are making. I'm not suggesting that's how it would go down every time but by the OPs own admission the would be burglar buggered off as soon as he put the light on. That doesn't sound like a psycho to me, just an opportunist.
You sound like a stabbing victim waiting to happen to be honest.
Utter utter rubbish.
A simple check on a passed out person is hardly a risk. And most nutters don't carry knives. It's a small percentage that do.
I carry a knife everywhere everyday anyway lol (just as an aside ) so feel fairly safe and very un-stabbing victimish.
because someone might die.
They might, but it was very unlikely they would. Just like it was unlikely the OP would get stabbed, but again, it's not inconceivable it could happen.
Easy to criticise the op from behind a keyboard. In the middle of the night, with a family to take care of, I'm pretty confident some of the folks on here would have been calling the police from behind a locked door rather than administering first aid to the guy as he lay on the street.
I am pretty confident i would at least be checking the chap. Indeed last winter I was told of a passed out junkie in the street. I went out at midnight to look for him and make sure he was safe ( he was - he had moved on)
tp =- actually its fairly likely - passed out on a cold night is an easy way to die of hypothermia
I had a pissed up driver crash his car in to my living room back in March. First thing I did was rush out of the house to see if he was okay. Also had another drunk try and gain access to my house. Kicking door and repeatedly trying the handle. I went out of the other door and came round to see what the hell was happening. He lived on the next street and thought it was his house. I walked the ****wit home. Other similar things have occurred in my life.
I might be an idiot, but my first response is always to find out what’s happening/see if people are okay. My wife doesn’t like this approach and would prefer to peek out from behind the curtains. Strangely I’ve yet to be stabbed.
An awful lot of virtual saints & heroes on here, in reality a fair chunk of you would be shaking in your slippers scared to open your door and you know it.
I would do this, I would go one better, I would let him sleep it off in my spare room, I would provide counselling and a hearty homemade meal, wake up.
There are instances were these types of people have broken in and raped single mums in front of their children.
What if that door gave way, what if it was your gran, someone with a weak heart, a single mum with a baby. Does your bleeding heart still have sympathy for him and his addiction after he kills or rapes someone, maybe the drugs aren't to blame, some people are just twisted individuals anyway. Council estates have plenty people who will terrorise and ruin other people's lives, beat up and rob the vulnerable for fun, jails are full of them, basically there are plenty nasty basturds out there, they are just wired wrong.
Daily wail much Mick?
Ever been inside a prison? I have. They are chock full of pathetic inadequate people often victims of abuse and mental health issues.
And yes - as above when i heard via social media a junkie was passed out on the street on a winters night I went to look for him to make sure he was OK ( he was - he had moved)
Daily wail much Mick?
Ever been inside a prison? I have. They are chock full of pathetic inadequate people often victims of abuse and mental health issues.
Exactly this. I once asked the head of mental health in the jail I worked in, what % of the UK prison population actually had MH problems. Even I was shocked at her answer. She said it was around 90%.
EDIT, that's not including the staff.
And most of them chose the path they took, I've no sympathy for someone who says I wonder what heroin is like.
Sod it, I'll bite.
I once worked with a kid from Somalia who'd seen and experienced some truly horrifying stuff.
She started drinking pretty hard at about 13, was smoking weed and doing pills by 14 and was a junkie before her 16th birthday.
She said she started drinking to try to forget, then that didn't work, so she tried a few "recriational" drugs which worked for a while, but wore off and she ended up on heroin because it did exactly what she was looking for, it made it all go away for a little while.
Most, if not all of the drug addicts I've known have similarly horrible stories to tell.
And most of them chose the path they took, I’ve no sympathy for someone who says I wonder what heroin is like.
Yup, people choose to have messed up lives, that's exactly how it works.
What if
That's a lot of what if's. Some may even say whataboutery.
Some amazing views here. Hard to say what I do in that situation to be fair. One thing is for certain I wouldn’t kick him in the face. I would like to think I would try and see if he was ok.
