[Closed] Now the fire service personnel are due to strike

Spot on Bazz.

My brother has been in the LFB for around 15 years. You sum up exactly what he's been saying.

project - Member

the point i was trying to make was that fire personnel where balloting for strrikle action

You said quote :

[i]"Now the fire service personnel are due to strike."[/i]

You didn't mention anything about "balloting for strike action".

You then posted a link concerning the London Fire Brigade which the article says, [i]isn't[/i] planning strike action.

Finally you posted a link which suggests that south Wales Fire Brigades Union [i]are[/i] "balloting" for strike action. This however is in contradiction to what south Wales Fire Brigades Union is saying.

Directly from the FBU :

[i]Following a series of branch meetings and mass meetings of firefighters, fire control staff
and fire officers, the South Wales Brigade Committee which represents fire stations from
across South Wales, agreed unanimously at their meeting yesterday to formally register a
trade dispute with the South Wales Fire and Rescue Authority and ballot all of the
membership [b][u]for industrial action short of strike[/u][/b].[/i]

The only way the firefighters can go on a legal strike is if the have a ballot on it. So unless they do so, there will be no strike.

You have not provided any proof that any brigade anywhere in the country is going on strike.

The title of the thread and your original post appears to be nothing more than a load of bollox inspired by your own personal and relentless hatred of public sector workers.

I hope he tries to squirm out of this one? 😆

Who says "quality contact time with the residents" represents productivity ...........you ?

The reality is, is it is often neigh on impossible to measure productivity in the public sector. Just because someone writes a letter or makes a phone call does not mean they have been productive. And in the public sector productivity remains at a constant level because outputs are given the same price as inputs.

Sorry, that's bollocks - in every job I've done it's always been possible to state that one worker was [i]better[/i] than another - standardise that difference and you have a simple measure of productivity.

Sorry, that's bollocks

No need to apologise........cause it ain't bollox.

As I have already pointed out, someone writing a letter or making a phone call does not necessarily constitute being 'productive'. It is extremely difficult to measure productivity in many areas of the public sector. You still haven't explained why "quality contact time with the residents" necessarily represents 'productivity' in a care home........you are simply using your own personal interpretation when deciding what is 'productive'. And you haven't commented on the effect of Baumol's cost disease.

You still haven't explained why "quality contact time with the residents" necessarily represents 'productivity' in a care home.

I didn't say that, and the poster who did say it used the word "possibly" - it's a possible way to measure productivity. It might not be the best, or even the correct, way to measure it. But I bet that if you ask the care workers (or the people they're caring for) they'd be able to put all the other staff on a scale from "better" to "worse" - and if you can codify that scale accross the industry you have a reasonable way to measure productivity.

Note: productivity is not the same as "cheap", "cost effective", or any other monetary value. But to claim that public services are somehow so radically different to private ones that any kind of measurement is impossible is, sorry, bollocks.

You said that you could, quote : [i]"[b]quite easily[/b] ......measure the productivity of a care worker and compare it with a car worker on a production line"[/i]

Now [i]that's[/i] bollox.........you can't.

Talk to me about the Baumol Effect.

.

But to claim that public services are somehow so radically different to private ones ......

I never said that.

Yeah sorry mogrim - I've just reread the posts and it was stumpyjon what said it. But nevertheless what Dave Prentis said was perfectly sensible, and your claim (or support of the claim) that you can [i]quite easily[/i] measure the productivity of a care worker and compare it with a car worker on a production line, is false. As is your claim that I make a distinction between the public and private sectors, I don't - only between productive and non-productive workers.

ianpinder - Member

...she gets screwed hard...

Bazz are those 27 vehicles on a private finance initiative?

[url= http://www.fireservice.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=33190 ]heres the thread on another forum[/url] if you want to read through it hora

But to claim that public services are somehow so radically different to private ones that any kind of measurement is impossible is, sorry, bollocks.

Ernie, is there any reason you need to analyse every thing somebody writes, like me.

Perhaps you are one of these public servants, now off work suffering from stress.

The FB will eventually strike, in a management led way of privatiseing the service, to make the public see,or think they the workers are bad, and the private sector will do a better job,some hope there.

It appears they are planing to strike in September

The FB will eventually strike,in a management led way

No its government cuts.

You are obviously an outsider looking in, who knows **** all about the FS.

so you both had the cheek to post and you slagged him off too...excellent riposte 🙄

Dont you remember the management organised strikes of the 80`s, wher the management would produce a demand for the workers to follow, the union chap would say we will strike, management, rubs hands at thought of strike, no need to pay the workers, sell off surplus stock,then eventually pretend to give in, but say we want new productivity, and job loses, and the union bloke rolls over and agrees.

Like parts of the NHS, the fire service could and is easily able to be split up, and sold to insurance companies, or similar companies.(not my wish)

We have the rescue bit, the training bit, and the advisory,fire safety bits, then there are the control centres, basicly a call centre that could do other paid for work.

Thats how this governmnet is thinking, and the last thing i or mosst people want is a privatised fire or Nhs service, where it will be post code lottery if a fire engine or ambulance turns up.

control centres, basicly a call centre that could do other paid for work.

please stop your shite now.

can't be arsed correcting your spelling either.

Appears to me Project has a job that no one would care if the service he provided ended tomorrow so tries to belittle those that provide a good public service.

I'm going to troll

it's a dangerous job being a firefighter

Eighty per cent of all wholetime firefighters retire on ill health and injury grounds before reaching their normal retirement age of 55!

http://www.tuc.org.uk/h_and_s/tuc-18238-f0.cfm

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23398835-firemen-feel-the-heat-from-health-and-safety-for-sleeping-on-the-floor.do

be careful out there

actually I think the job is vital service, I also think it is stifled by a disfunctional organisational culture in both the frontline and the management

The fire and ambulance service provide an excellent and free to the consumer service,as opposed to a service that may depend on your ability to pay, sadly this governmnet will try and split them up, patient transport, is slowly being privatised up here, ambulances are being down graded from the Mercedes Modular ones to Fiat, converted vans.

A call centre is a place where they answer the phone and take or action a responce ,but with the emergency services it also provides reassurance and help to the caller.

I cant ever remember belittleing the ambulance or fire service, have had to call on their services a few times and found them to be first rate, and i find your interpretation of what i wrote somewhat confusing.

Perhaps you should read what i type sometimes with spelling mistakes.

The views i put above where what this government thinks of the service, not my views, read the last unedited paragraph.

My opening question.

project - Member
It appears they are planing to strike in September, who is next, we have had the BA crews, the BAA, lot, and many others,and they only caused slight disruptions.

Who will be next.

[b]If it was the local council workers, possibly nobody would notice the difference, but the fire people, peoples homes wil burn down, and people will die.[/b]

Posted 1 day ago #

You were belittle by claiming that it would be better run as a private sector. As for patient transport service I'm afraid to admit that I think it is not cost effective for an ambulance service to run it cost millions. The hospitals pay either way no matter who provides it. When it has gone to private sectors in the past the service provided was very much poorer.

I'm also as many of the fireman on here will confirm i'm never afraid to express my views on the fire service but they are currently be dealt with harshly. Maybe some of the changes are necessary but the way it is being introduced is wrong. Staff are humans they deserve respect and to be treat fair.

I definately dont want a privatised NHS, or Fire Service, and Drac, your spelin and gramar are so poor tonight, 8O.

Project they're terrible all the time.

Project your tone came across wrong it looked as were being negative about the FS it seeks it wasn't your intention though.

your claim (or support of the claim) that you can quite easily measure the productivity of a care worker and compare it with a car worker on a production line, is false.

Not only false, but completely false to claim I said it. You can measure care worker productivity. You can measure car worker productivity. I didn't anywhere state that you could compare one to the other - they're obviously completely different.

I'm only arguing that public sector productivity measurement is viable, I don't know whether is the best way to improve things - I don't have enough experience with UK local government on which to base an opinion. I [b]do[/b] know Spanish government workers could do with a serious kick up the rear, though!

In response to questions asked, Woody - in my opinon yes closing stations at night will eventually lead to someones death but proving it would be difficult, and no 27 appliances isn't nearly enough, 20 pump fires happen and you can't predict when, so it's a hell of a gamble as it doesn't leave much slack to cover the rest of London, even if they get all the non operational officers out on machines that would probably only be another 10 or so.

Hora - the private company suppling the contingency fire cover actually own our fire engines, in London we no longer own our uniforms, appliances or most of our equipment, they are all leased off of private companies, we only own our breathing apparatus, hoses and a couple of other bits like chemical suits.

With regards to controls/call centres you may want to look up regional contol centres a project that is currently several years behind schedule, £ millions over budget and likely to deliver a worse service to the public when it does go live.

Bazz - Member

With regards to controls/call centres you may want to look up regional contol centres a project that is currently several years behind schedule, £ millions over budget and likely to deliver a worse service to the public when it does go live.

Posted 2 minutes ago # Report-Post

The thing is with RCC, is they dont have local knowledge and if the name of the road is not on google earth, theyre stumped, where as a local centre ,somebody there might actually know the area.

They are also looking after a much bigger area, and taking more calls, some fires take a lot of calls people with mobiles all ringing to report the same incident, so that blocks the lines, and as there are fewer control centres, the calls cant be transfered elseewhere but must be answered, just in case its something else.

we had a 30 pump fire the other month in our area we had to get help in from n.yorks, s.yorks and greater manchester. and yet still our gaffers are cutting 15 pumps next year

30 pump fire , no wonder we have a hosepipe ban,:lol:

where was the fire then.

Here on Merseyside, we have a fireman rideing a motorbike with Thunderbird water tanks stuck on the sides, seems to work ok on the video i saw, but we also still want big red fire engines.

here, they are still running tests as to what nasties were there too as there appears to be quite a lot ;-(
http://www.firewestyorkshire.com/wastecaregarforthmp25.htm

Project - that was my point, soon call centres will have a list of calls waiting and won't have time to do anything else.

Firestarter - Don't worry i'm sure your chief officer will have an intergrated risk management plan out soon that proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that you don't need those 15 pumps!!

Here on Merseyside, we have a fireman rideing a motorbike with Thunderbird water tanks stuck on the sides, seems to work ok on the video i saw, but we also still want big red fire engines.

and in the video the had a pump standing by just in case. If they are that safe why the standby pump? madness, its a disaster waiting to happen. Been turned out to many bin fires (the fire bike intended call) when I have arrived the fire has engulfed the house, lets see a fire bike deal with that?

Bruneep, i saw the full size engine with the fire man with hose ready just in case,on the bbc video, i also wonder how the poor operator is going to judge the severity of a bin fire, from a bulk bin or just a small waste bin on the street, same for a car fire, is it near a building or not.

and then what happens if the poor bloke on the bike falls off or is hit by a car.

But one man on a bike is a lot cheaper than 4 in a lorry, with a few hundred gallons of water in the back, along with suitable extrication tools.

Wonder which the [s]accountants[/s] con- dem governmnet favour

ernie_lynch - Member
So there you are ........ I've slashed over a million jobs without even trying

Here on Merseyside, we have a fireman rideing a motorbike with Thunderbird water tanks stuck on the sides, seems to work ok on the video i saw, but we also still want big red fire engines.

* small fires started by kids etc the figure quoted ,in a motorbike mag of all places, seemed quite high to me.

Bazz wrote

the private company suppling the contingency fire cover actually own our fire engines, in London we no longer own our uniforms, appliances or most of our equipment,

For Sale - Firefighters uniform, one careful owner, may have some water and soot stains and be a little sweaty. Will pay for itself with a couple of hen nights. Supplied with free helmet!