[Closed] Not paying in a restaurant

so did you pay anything in the end??

did you ask to move tables?

Just wondering if anybody can clear up where I stand?

Pretty much what you were told by the police - it is a civil dispute.

Had you just got up and legged it then it would be criminal, and if you refused to give your name and address it wouldn't be unreasonable to conclude that you might just be trying to evade paying.

Where you stand is that you offered to provide your name and address and they refused it, that's their problem, not that they'd bother suing you anyway.

Do you think that the staff would have had any better a time than you with the drunken louts? and then you really make their night by refusing to pay full price for the meal, just because the police didn't want to get involved and allowed you to leave doesn't make you any less of a prick.

{This post earned him a two day ban - Mod}

You did exactly the right thing and what the police told you was correct.

I have paid what I thought a meal was worth rather than the full price about 5 or 6 times over the last 10 years or so. If the food is shit then i will tell them so and leave what i think it is worth along with my name and address. Never been followed up on once.

Zukemonster - Member

Had a 'nice' meal tonight

basicly he didn't like the other customers, nothing to do with the meal.

Do you think that the staff would have had any better a time than you with the drunken louts? and then you really make their night by refusing to pay full price for the meal, just because the police didn't want to get involved and allowed you to leave doesn't make you any less of a prick.

Nice.

Restaurants problem to control customers. Customer is paying for goods, service and [b]surroundings[/b]. If any don't come up to scratch then the customer is perfectly within their rights to dispute it.

You should have left as soon as it became clear the other table was going to spoil your meal, not after you finished eating it. I think that undermines your case for witholding payment somewhat.

Have to say, if it was solely down to the table next to you spoiling your meal then i would have been asked to move or asked the waiters to sort the other table out. If they then did nothing then you have more of a case for not paying.

I'm guessing MSP works in a restaurant.

johnners - Member

You should have left as soon as it became clear the other table was going to spoil your meal, not after you finished eating it. I think that undermines your case for witholding payment somewhat.

If I'm hungry, I'll finish my meal first.

If they don't have your name and address what's the problem?
I agree with Coyote wholly you didn't get what you paid for.
MSP typical British attitude the staff should have sort out the louts or rather they wouldn't because they were probably spending a fortune on booze and could probably wangled a big tip out of a bunch of drunks. The other customers are part of your surroundings....

You should have asked for a different table though and any sane person wouldn't have sat next to those guys in the first place if it was just you and the missus.

You guess wrong, loadmouths at another table is not the establishments fault, if you heared some bad lanuguage in Asda would you demand to pay half price at the checkout. ****ing grow up. You just looked for an excuse to rob a small business who was probably suffering more from the drunken antics than you were.
I did work as a waiter for a while while at uni, and two things made life hell, loudmouth drunken yobs and pretentious middle class pricks.

loadmouths at another table is not the establishments fault

maybe, but your enjoyment of your meal is their responsibility.

I think the mistake the OP made was not to ask to move tables or for the restaurant to tell the yobs to STFU.

How often has anyone gone over to a bunch of drunken yobs abd told them to shut up? How successful do you think that course of action would be? Do you think waiters are invincible and don’t feel pain?

How often has anyone gone over to a bunch of drunken yobs abd told them to shut up?

Every single day.

What the hells wrong with you? Glad i wasn't been waited on by you, you would have been REALLY helpful. 🙄

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Agree with thegreatape on this one - its totally civil, no criminal offences to speak of unless you did one from the restaurant without disputing the bill, or taking steps to sort out payment. Its up to the restaurant to sort out their guests, but are they likely to do that when the noisy ones are spending stacks of cash on ale. Ordinarily, Police are called to a 'rowdy group' or 'refusal to leave' and that gets a bit noisy too...

At the end of the day, the restaurant are the losers, as they will probably not get repeat custom from yourselves and possibly others. As a consumer, you shouldn't have to put up with behaviour like that in a restaurant, and this can be reflected in the price you pay at the end...

The only time I'd refuse to pay for a meal would be if the food was cold/bad. At that moment I would make the staff aware of this discreetly.

Not at the end. Sorry, for many reasons you are not giving the business a chance to rectify/cancel off the bill or amend. It comes across as you are trying it on.

At my favourite Chinese I have brought up a dish once in a while and said it wasnt right (taken away and cancelled off the bill).

Plus- people swearing next to you- if it bothered you that much, why didn't you say something to them yourself?

Its a curry place. In the majority of them you can get loud/brash customers.

LHS - Member

How often has anyone gone over to a bunch of drunken yobs abd told them to shut up?

Every single day.

Unless you a copper, BULLSHIT!!!

When you said you had a quiet word with the staff, what was it with reference to? Negotiating a discount or encouraging them to sort this kind of thing in the future?

OP should have complained during his meal, not at the end. Given the restaurant a chance to do something about, in much the same way as you should if a meal came out cold.....

....meals always taste better after spin in the microwave and a spattering of chef spit.

MSP, do you just go through life cowering away and being shat on from every direction?

Good luck with that! 😯

Not at the end. Sorry, for many reasons you are not giving the business a chance to rectify/cancel off the bill or amend. It comes across as you are trying it on.

think i agree with Hora on this one, unless you asked to be moved or complained about the swearing.

MSP unfortunately that's life in a restaurant been there done that, thankfully many many years ago.

You don't go to Asda for romantic shopping experience though do you unless your abit weird 😳

MSP you seem like the epitome of internet user cowering behind the anonymity of the forum, are you scared of the outside world?

LHS your full of shit,

The Southern Yeti, nevermind all this just sell me your VRS 8)

If you approach/word it right you actually get given extra stuff.

Its all about being able to see all angles in life 😀

MSPs last customer - it had to be posted. 😆

2002, 51 plate, 91,500 miles, slight damage to the underside of the front bumper... talk to me, what are you offering, how many camels, talk to me...

Yeah so many people claim they would confront troublemakers on the internet, yet it never happens in the real world, it looks like everyone else is hiding behindf their internet hardmen personas.

2002, 51 plate, 91,500 miles, slight damage to the underside of the front bumper... talk to me, what are you offering, how many camels, talk to me...

You've had it since new (which is good). How many stamps, belt (and the pump) done yet?

So far its just the wheel bearing?

doesn't make you any less of a prick.

oudmouth drunken yobs and pretentious middle class pricks.

Unless you a copper, BULLSHIT!!!

Is all this shouting and swearing really necessary, Your spoiling my morning browse on stw. I think that premier account I was thinking about should be half price because of this. 😉

Yup complaining at the time of the problem is the answer not at the end. Done it with wrong orders, slow service, poor or cold meals. Usual out come is starters for free or drinks bill wiped.

Not quite since new, it was owned by Skoda for a few k. Have kept up to date with all services, couple not with skoda, but that just meant it was done every 12k rather than 17k for a couple of years. Had some pipes replace last skoda service 2 months ago, wait a minute... It's not for sale!

You don't go to Asda for romantic shopping experience though do you unless your abit weird

Dammit!

*cancels date near the frozen chicken aisle*

MSP,

MTFU. You might actually start to enjoy life rather than live in fear.

If you were in a restaurant with your Mum/Dad/Gran/GF/BF and some tool next to you was swearing

e.g. "....fing this, and fing that, and he was a right c***".

You would just sit there and smile politely?

Jeez. 🙄

Drunken noisy people in a curry house!!!!! what is the world coming to.

I cant remember the last time I went to a curry place and had a quiet meal (even the posh ones)

It seem like you have got away with paying so regardless of weather its right or wrong take your free meal and never go back there again.

LHS, its got nothing to do with me having to MTFU, I just don't beleive you. I think you mouth off in here, but cower in the corner in reality.

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for an English[/url]

Where as you cower in the corner on here and in reality?

I have to say, if you were waiting my table and I either asked to be moved tables or for you to tell people to stop swearing and you did nothing but run off and hide in the corner then i would not be paying for my meal either.

Try and find a course in conflict management or something. It might help.

My experience you ask some lads who're a little drunk and rowdy to quiten down they'll probably s****, apologise and try to be a bit quieter, or less often they'll laugh and tell you to f off, very unlikely to get up and chin you. MSP don't assume your cowardice is shared by all!

I think you should have paid. You bought and ate the meal and rowdy, drunken people are often found in restaurants, even posh ones..

You could have asked to move, you could have left without eating and gone somewhere else or you could have just ignored it.

I can imagine the response that the waiter/owners would have got trying to shut up or eject a group of drunken lads.

I'd go back there and pay up.

I'd go back there and pay up.

Agree.

The lads weren't rowdy, just swearing loudly, two totally different things IMO.

IME working in restaurants as a student approaching people like this results in one outcome. Them apologising for not realising how loud they were being.

MTFU

approaching people like this results in one outcome. Them apologising for not realising how loud they were being.

+1

My only advice is not to go back for another meal. Imagine what they would do to your food behind your back 🙁

As you have stated the food was ok and it was a little harsh on the resteraunt to not pay i would have paid up, no tip and just never gone back. Talk with your feet and let them get on with things.

Well as someone who deals with drunks and drunken crowds a lot I agree most say sorry. You can tell the ones who won't as there already showing signs if agressive behaviour.

approaching people like this results in one outcome. Them apologising for not realising how loud they were being.

+1

I agree that most people would have just asked them to keep it down a bit. And it's not 'hiding behind an internet hardman persona' - I'm a girl and I'd feel quite comfortable politely asking someone to keep the volume/language down.

To the OP, I understand why you didn't pay, but I would have had a word with the group of blokes during the meal, and then the staff if the situation wasn't sorted.

I'm mostly on your side Mr OP, although I agree you should've asked to move or at last made a point that you would only be paying X amount unless the rowdy crowd were sorted. However, for the staff to behave the way they did is IMO a disgrace and I'd never return unless through change in management.

On the supermarket side of things, I had an altercation a few weeks back with a foul-mouthed pr1ck in M&S. Basically he jumped ahead of me in the queue, so I said politely "Excuse me, you can't just jump ahead of people, I was in front of you", to which he start getting really sh1tty and saying stuff like "Who the **** do you think you are ... Don't fkucing start mate ... That's just the way life is ... Give it a rest mate ... Oh just **** off ..." Staff did nothing (as you'd expect) and I so wanted to just deck him and walk out.

As I recall it was Fri night so he may well have got a slap elsewhere.

So yes, I agree that foul-mouthed twunts do ruin the ambience a little, whether it be in a shop or a restaurnat, and IMO it's the manager's/staff's responsibility to sort them out.

its all in how you do it, If you go steaming in aggressive and angry, then yeah, you'll get abuse back. If you've got a smile on your face that goes a long way to ensuring it will be sorted quickly and easily.

PS The restaurant I worked in was on Newcastle's Quayside. so we got lots of drunks, and I never had a single problem with lads kicking off after being told to keep it down

spacemonkey calm down.

Drac - Member

Well as someone who deals with drunks and drunken crowds a lot I agree most say sorry. You can tell the ones who won't as there already showing signs if agressive behaviour.

thats fair enough, I actually asumed that if it ruined the ops meal it was more than just drunken jovality, and if thats all it is then he should pay up.

Where did this happen just out of interest?

In the past when I've had really bad service and not great food - I have left the total bill minus about 25% and just walked out. Tried to negotiate a discount before that but they weren't having it so we took direct action.

If the only problem was other people though I'm not sure if I would have done the same.

spacemonkey calm down.

Ggrrhh, yobbish behaviour (when it's rude and/or aggressive) riles me. Not so when it's larking about, etc.

its all in how you do it, If you go steaming in aggressive and angry, then yeah, you'll get abuse back. If you've got a smile on your face that goes a long way to ensuring it will be sorted quickly and easily.

IMO lots of people seem have this problem in life generally - if you are all scared/nervous/angry when dealing with potentially volatile situations you are likely to make things worse.

I've never had really bad food. Ever. You tend to get an indication before the food even comes- same on the service. I have had this feeling before, a gut-feel (sic) as you walk in. Then just got up, made excuses and left before ordering.

Thanks for the comments guys. I've chilled about it now. But I think the way treated us last night was really bad.

I wasn't trying to get out of paying, and would have been happy paying full price for the meal, as I know I hadn't brought up the problem at the right time. I guess I was looking for a simple bit of an apology for them doing nothing about what was an obviously annoying situation for the other 3 tables. But the reaction of the waiter and then the manager was immediately aggressive to me: It was as if the whole situation was my fault for not talking to them. This really go my back up and lead me to offering to pay less than price for the meal, and instead of reacting calmly, the manager said that if I did so I would be a criminal and he would be calling the police.... leading to me walking out and waiting for him to make the call.

It was a stupid escalation of events, that could have been avoided by a bit of common sense and politeness.

When I was outside the manager basically wouldn't take my address so that he could call the police and claim I had acted criminally and walked away. (even though I had already given to the police on the phone..) Interestingly the police later told me that they are often called out to this place for the same reason and I should contact the local papers about how they treat customers.

They actually accused the table next to us as also being criminals for offering to be witnesses for us. (after they had paid for their meal and were leaving.

Price is important in the service that you expect to be delivered. This meal worked out at about £40 a head, for which I think you can reasonably expect to have good food and good whole experience. Fair enough that I made a mistake and chose not to act at the time, but I should be able to expect the smallest amount of courtesy from the staff there,

Food should be the same as any other product! I have refused to pay for aweful food before. as long as you don't eat it all its perfectly reasonable??

I wouldn't keep a bike that kept falling apart so why would i pay £30 for grotty nosh?! ha

Mistake #1 - taking the Mrs for a romantic meal in a curry house 🙄

Eating spicy casserole with lumps of bread and trying to woo another 😀

We got asked to leave an Indian once after my drunk friend demonstrated (very loudly, and at length) the different noises sheep and goats make. They made us pay first though.

I've worked in pubs and clubs before, and have never had any issues with asking people to quieten or calm down. Mostly it's a case of embarrassment from the people who then lower the volume, although some need reminded more than once through no fault of their own other than being merry.

Unless MSP approaches customer service with a Basil Fawlty attitude, I can't see what the problem is.

The only times I've ever complained in restaurants it's been met either with utter indifference or with rapidly escalating lunatic hostility. I have responded to this by going to better restaurants. Any sort of row spoils my day far more reliably than a bad meal ever will. 🙂

We got asked to leave an Indian once after my drunk friend demonstrated (very loudly, and at length) the different noises sheep and goats make. They made us pay first though.

You have strange friends.

why not just asked to be moved before you ate??? even if it was mid meal you could still have moved if it was that unbearable....you cant stop a group of lads swearing and being 'lads' in a curry house....if the meal was nice you should have paid imo.....i can understand it probably spoiled it, but if you ate the full meal, sat through unitl you were ready to leave then imo you should pay...yes you are entitled to make a complaint, but you should have done something before hand or got and left when it became clear they were just larger louts....im sure they could have moved you at worst....

lads being lads and swearing and generally being a lads night out is always gonna include a degree of foul language...its our given right 🙂

I'd expect a refund if it was the restaurant at fault. If you'd lodged a complaint and they'd failed to act on it, for instance.

By waiting to the end, you've not given the restaurant opportunity to rectify the situation (by having a word, moving you / them to another table, etc), you've sat and put up with it and then at the end gone "oh, and by the way, the other customers were rude so I'd like my meal for free." I'm not surprised you got short shrift, maybe I'm misreading the OP but it really does make you sound like a chancer. It's not the restaurant's fault, why should they be liable?

On the other hand of course, that's no excuse for the restaurant to behave unprofessionally and rudely either. I'd be cross at that too.

(not that I'm suggesting you -were- trying it on, just so we're clear, just that that's how it could seem.)

Yes Didzy, I had every intention of paying, and I should have/ could have moved although it only became apparent after we had started eating. it was the waiter and manager who escalated the situation and were blatantly rude to me. Is staff rudeness a justification for not paying, probably not TBH. Are a group of noisy eaters near you justification: probably not either. But when you combine the two, and then the manager basically says he is going to call the police if I don't pay full price, without any discussion or apology I felt that I should challenge him in his actions.

I had brought up a valid criticism, if I had been in his shoes I would have apologised, probably said I would be having words with the staff nearby (whether I did this is another thing), said it was a difficult situation. I would have probably taken the compulsory service charge off the bill, and offered the customer a drink. Result customer happy, and will return to eat again, and probably would leave a tip anyway out of politeness.

As it was he has escalated the situation, got my back up, and ended up completely out of pocket. I am in two minds today about how things went, but I do keep thinking about the other customers telling me throughout that I was being reasonable giving me support. When the police told me that they are regularly getting the same calls from the same place and that I should be writing to the local press, I felt quite justified.

Nice link TJ lol (I want some indian food now)

OP - you should have asked for another table or pay half.

To eat and then moan afterwards? But still it should have been a pleasant meal.

OP - you should have asked for another table or pay half.

Yes I should have done, it was a mistake not to do so, but its that worry that you are going to aggravate the problem by complaining, with the person you are complaining about listening to what you are saying. I decided to leave it for a comment at the end, and still had every intention of paying. To be honest I was kind of waiting for a waiter to come and ask how the food was etc offer another drink, and if they had done so I would have said something then. Also it looked like they guys would be going soon, they had finished eating when we arrived, and were finishing their drinks, only prob was they stayed and kept drinking more!

It was their reaction that got my back up. If I recall some comments from the waiter were:

'its not my problem if people are noisy in the restaurant, you could have got up and spoken to them'
'my only job is to give you food and take your money'

Maybe I watch too much Gordon Ramsey, but If i'm am paying over the odds for food, I expect a little bit more from the waiter than that...

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make unhappy noises in their general direction[/url]

Is staff rudeness a justification for not paying, probably not TBH.

Actually, I'm with you all the way on this. Poor service -is- well within their control and is their fault if it's not up to scratch.

As a nation we're predisposed to "not making a fuss", and put up with all sorts of liberties as a result. How often have you been in a shop where the assistant is trying to serve you whilst yakking on the phone to her boyfriend or something? I make a point these days of not standing for it.

i can understand your frustrations totally, and a nice quiet meal with the missus spoiled via the foul language and general beer boy'ness.....

BUT and i totally understand the restaurants POV you ate the whole thing with out moaning or groaning or even a single word.....then once filled your belly and not said a word, decide you then want to pay half??????????? to an owner it would just sound like you are trying to pull a fast one, and you didnt give them the opportunity to try and help you......i think you should have complained even mid meal if it was that bad.....you cant go somewhere and at the end of the night expect to pay half price when as far as they were concerned you were quite happy until leaving.......

if you were unhappy you should have said something top and bottom of it, and you should have paid full if you ate it, and didnt make a complaint during....if you had done id be with you 1000000% ...., i dont think you have a leg to stand on, and id be the same if i was the manager/owner.....though i think they would have gladly moved you to a more appropriate place.....

my 2p's worth but i think your in the wrong 🙂 no offence like, just my thoughts

Unlike didzy2009 I have read the rest of the thread and as you clearly stat that "I had every intention of paying" several times it sounds to me like the problem would have been easily resolved by the waiter using a little know customer service skill of listening to your complaint and apologising. This may have been enough if not then perhaps offering you a desert (which you would not take as they always look really bad) or coffee may have been the way for them to go rather then 'its not my problem if people are noisy in the restaurant, you could have got up and spoken to them'
'my only job is to give you food and take your money' but perhaps I have not worked in customer service for long enough to become jaded!......
🙂 although if you had gone straight in with "I'm not paying for this as that lot have been noisy" would have had a point.

I'm with Didzy2009. Valentines Day before last us and another couple went to a Thai restaurant. On a table next to our right were 15 'Bridgette Jones' (late 20/early30's females who are slightly podgy, drink too much and have **** all chance of finding a sane bloke) along with their gay friends - all singing along to the music played over the restaurant.... on our left were 4 Ting Tong's with some seriously creepy looking white blokes who I noticed kept on looking over at mrshora.

Did I complain? Did I ****. Who cares!

on our left were 4 Ting Tong's

Ting Tongs? I dread to think what the **** you are talking about now.