[Closed] Not all programmers are on here: ISIS content.

Like the Saudi's you mean?

No, I mean your suggestion that this nutjob was |"on the same side" as Assad and the Queen, is risible, to say the least. Also, another indication of your inability to reason constructively.

You need to give your sarcasm receptor a clean.

He was against Assad, which in 2012 meant he was on the same side as the Queen... remember, allies have been supplying rebels with weapons since before ISIS were ever mentioned

[img] [/img]

[img] :large[/img]

Yes yes, the "West" likes meddling in the Middle East. We know all this. You know we know all this, yet you repeat it. What's your point?

I'm disappointed that jhj hasn't posted a pic of Mohammed shaking hands with the Queen - he's slipping.

Anyone else the CAGE interviews? Pretty disgraceful attempt to link being on an MI5 watchlist to turning into a Jihadist. Obviously CAGE don't understand that Mohammed was trying to join Somali jihad for years and MI5 kept stopping him.

Aside from the BBC interview on SKY the presenter tells the spokesperson to "Get over yourself" 😀

Yet flags weren't flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana~ why is that?

I listened to the interview on the cycle home fae work, I thought the "[i]Cage directer[/i] was almost an apologist for his actions - fair enough he mentioned [i]Mohammad[/i] almost being strangled by the police and being harassed but that is in no way an excuse for his subsequent actions against innocents caught up in the situation - I've been harassed and punched by the police but to turn such an encounter into a so called [i]Jihad[/i] against the western world and it's people is just unfathomable as to where his justification comes from.

And jivehoneyjive ? - you may have a point but for gawds sake will you,…..just for once actually converse and contribute to threads such as these with an opinion instead of carpet bombing us with pics and links to [i]conspiracy theories 101 for dummies[/i] as whenever i see one of your posts i automatically skip it/ignore it and move on.

I'm disappointed that jhj hasn't posted a pic of Mohammed shaking hands with the Queen

Still think its best to give them no publicity and that applies equally to JHJ as it does to Jihadi john

Pretty disgraceful attempt to link being on an MI5 watchlist to turning into a Jihadist.

I can understand that he was upset that in the "prison" of London he was prevented from going about his life, free to follow his beliefs without harassment. And naturally the only logical way for hin to react was to join a group who behead people who follow different beliefs. Quite understandable.

You want my opinion?

My opinion is that it's very strange how one minute the West is supporting rebels in Syria then seemingly out of nowhere a vast network of well armed boogeymen appear.

It's also very strange how it always seems to be the same people who profit from wars after starting those wars in the 1st place on the basis of lies told to the people paying for those wars (taxpayers)

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Though that 2nd image says America, given the 'special relationship' with the UK, it applies equally to our (sorry, Her Majesty's) Government

Don't be fooled again...

[url= http://order-order.com/2015/02/26/cage-spokesman-at-extremist-rally-support-the-jihad-of-our-brothers/ ]Asim Quereshi of CAGE[/url]

Just seen him on TV. Not often I feel like throwing things at the TV.

That article - apologies, haven't quite worked out links on my phone:

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB

Basically, it's pretty coherent long form journalism about ISIL and how it's an end of days cult. The kind of thing that takes the apocrypha literally and is looking for the end of the world because it's predicted in the holy book. Westborough baptist version of islam but better armed. The thing is, those sorts of cults draw people into their logic and get people to do things they would have thought unthinkable in their previous lives. I don't think you have to be mad, just malleable and needing the kind of structure, purpose and belief they give you.

The point I'm not getting today is that the security services have known his name for ages but kept it quiet for supposed operational reasons, yet the Washington Post and BBC decided to run with the story?

Unless the security services wanted it released now?

Presumably a D Notice would have kept the BBC quiet if necessary?

jivehoneyjive - Member
You want my opinion?

No.

Yet flags weren't flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana~ why is that?

It's Royal protocol not to fly flags at half mast as that is seen as a sign of weakness.

So why were they flown at half mast for the Saudi King, who exported the wahhabist faith that is the basis of ISIS and Al-Qaeda's beliefs?

JHJ.

Can you please stop saying things are "very strange"

Just say what you think.

JHJ - can you tell me what year the Taliban were founded and if someone had met them in 1983 would it indicate that time machines have been invented and are being kept from the people ?

Can you then also provide details from a reliable website that describes the meeting between John McCain and "Al Qaeda". Can you then explain why a group dedicated to disliking Americans didn't kidnap or kill him ?

Remember, use a reliable source of information - "don't get fooled again"!

I don't know where the OP got that idea - just because we're not posting doesn't mean we're not lurking.

100

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

can you tell me what year the Taliban were founded and if someone had met them in 1983 would it indicate that time machines have been invented and are being kept from the people ?

Can you tell me the origins of the [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban ]Taliban[/url] (and Al-Qaeda)?

The Taliban movement traces its origin to the ****stani-trained mujahideen in northern ****stan, during the Soviet war in Afghanistan.

Bear in mind the ****stani forces training the mujahideen were funded, armed and supported by MI6, CIA and Saudi intelligence services under [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone ]Operation Cyclone[/url]...

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads, but events back then have a direct link to the current situation (Obama's appearance in the video is testament to that, though links go far deeper)

Can you then also provide details from a reliable website that describes the meeting between John McCain and "Al Qaeda"

[url= http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/09/18/alleged-isis-photo-controversy-engulfs-sen-john-mccain/ ]

Ta-da[/url]

Free Syrian Army brigade commander as saying he is working with the “Islamic State and Jabhat al-Nusra, Al-Qaeda’s official Syrian affiliate — both U.S.-designated terrorist organizations

Can you then explain why a group dedicated to disliking Americans didn't kidnap or kill him ?

Just because a group is designated as a terrorist organization (by what is arguably a commercially profitable terrorist organization) doesn't mean they automatically go on the rampage the moment they see a westerner, especially if he is giving them weapons or other support.

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement ]Observers differ over whether Salafi are the same as Wahhabis or not[/url]

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads

jivehoneyjive

Sorry to have to keep going over this ground in various threads, but events back then have a direct link to the current situation (Obama's appearance in the video is testament to that, though links go far deeper)

Believe it or not some of us know. Perhaps a lot of us know. I've been banging on about the whys of IS and the various Iraq and Afghan wars on numerous threads. Granted, there do appear to be a handful of people who frequent the forum who come out with Fox news-esque "bomb them all bullshit" but most people realise IS didn't come up the Tigris in a bubble.

Any point you attempt to make is completely lost in a web of conspiratorial nonsense.

In this instance I'm more interested in how "jihadi john" came to do what he's doing, as opposed to another debate about IS which has been covered in about five threads going into dozens of pages very recently.

American reporter on newsnight claims Emwazi was obsessed with Al-Shabaab and showed their videos to his hostages. Makes a mockery of what the spokesman from CAGE said in the press conference.

I think the leaders of Islamic State are Salafis rather than Wahabis.

Is there a difference ?

the later is way more points in Scrabble

Believe it or not some of us know.

Glad to hear that jimjam, though the constant challenges I receive suggest many disbelieve the less publicized elements of the situation.

In this instance I'm more interested in how "jihadi john" came to do what he's doing

Obviously details are still emerging regarding Jihadi John, but as is almost always the case, he's had prior contact with the intelligence services, who tried to recruit him

However you look at it, this is an important factor when trying to get to the truth, especially since:

when Jihadi John went to fight in Syria in 2012, he was on the same side in the conflict as the UK + U.S. Establishments

jivehoneyjive

However you look at it, this is an important factor when trying to get to the truth, especially since:

Yeah but as I said I'm not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape shifting around him, as I said I'd be more curious how he can do the things that he's done.

I'm not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape shifting around him

The UK government, in line with many other western governments, shows an absolutely staggering level of hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policy.

The UK government did not previously consider ISIS to be an illegal terrorist organisation even though it was clearly engaged in appalling atrocities such as the beheading of captured Syrian soldiers.

Then as their strength grew ISIS crossed the boarder into Iraq a started committing exactly the same appalling atrocities there, but because they were now threatening Western interests the UK had no hesitation in declaring them an illegal terrorist organisation.

ISIS only became unlawful last June :

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27865849 ]UK outlaws Isis, the militant group behind Iraqi attacks[/url]

How does the UK government get away with this clearly breathtaking level of hypocrisy ? Well I think the clue lies in the above quote - widespread public indifference. People just don't care. They only ask questions when it all goes spectacularly wrong and English speaking people start to die - who cares about the appalling mess that Libya is in now (and we very much helped to create) as long as the media doesn't report the death of English speakers? Let's be honest, very few people, despite the daily slaughter.

Even when questions are eventually asked because it is obvious that things have gone horribly wrong the wider public completely absolves our governments - mostly because they are told to.

And so driven by greed, short-termism, and an unshatterable faith by former colonial powers that military might and superiority is the only real solution, the mistakes are repeated again and again, only to come back to haunt us again and again. Having learnt nothing from the past we prop up brutal totalitarian regimes in the Gulf and fan the flames of war in Syria, for example. And still the wider public is "not really so interested in the geopolitical landscape". Until they see horrible newspaper headlines concerning people who speak the same language as themselves.

CAGE. So Qureshi not surprisingly from @cranberry's link was on a pro-Jihadist rally. He was on Newsnight a while ago as the representative of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights with just the same "its all the West's fault" rhetoric. His colleague Cerie Bullivent (who stomped off after Sky news told him to "get over yourself") has been the subject of a Detention Order, ie locked up as a potential terrorist.

The whole Tanzanian Safari episode, Emwazi was IMO clearly trying to enter Somalia to fight with Jihadists so no wonder he was turned back. Whilst he was born in Kuwait he had no passport or right to reside there, he was denied entry by the Kuwaiti's. Kuwait of course borders Iraq, easy entry there to join the Jihadists.

On reflection I am happy these people where given airtime as it shows the threats we face from within the UK.

I agree with Ernie. Although the hypocrisy doesn't surprise me. 'Twas ever thus. Everywhere.

Qureshi was on Ch 4 news last night making a fool of himself, avoiding condemning "the lovely man" Emwazi, and accusing Jon Snow of only asking him to do so because he is a Muslim. Really, just nuke the f*ckers from orbit.

ernie_lynch

The UK government, in line with many other western governments, shows an absolutely staggering level of hypocrisy when it comes to foreign policy.

I agree but that's been debated ad nauseum on several other very long threads very recently. I'm not asking you to shut up, I was just asking jivehoneyjive to stop muddying the waters and taking the thread of at another tangent and trying to explain to him that some of us do actually understand the historical context behind what is going on.

jambalaya

The whole Tanzanian Safari episode, Emwazi was IMO clearly trying to enter Somalia to fight with Jihadists so no wonder he was turned back. Whilst he was born in Kuwait he had no passport or right to reside there, he was denied entry by the Kuwaiti's. Kuwait of course borders Iraq, easy entry there to join the Jihadists.

Well according to the journalist who broke the story this is absolutely the case, Qureshi is full of it. Sounds to me like MI5 had the right man and were acting entirely reasonably.

To paraphrase the entertaining weevil Omar Bakri Mohammed re: the Spice Girls -

Who is this "Qureshi"? He should be arrested immediately.

For crimes against facial hair.

Qureshi was on Ch 4 news last night making a fool of himself, avoiding condemning "the lovely man" Emwazi, and accusing Jon Snow of only asking him to do so because he is a Muslim. Really, just nuke the f*ckers from orbit.

There was an interesting exchange on the BBC with a Muslim leader from Birmingham who was arguing that people like Anjem Choudary should not be allowed to walk around on the streets spreading his hate message. Another commentator (British woman Islam convert ?) who was trying the same line as Qureshi about the radicalisation being due to UK foreign policy. He called her naive. Quite refreshing.

@jimjam - yes indeed I saw the interview with the WSJ guy. It hadn't occurred to me at first but its obvious when you look at the map.

Another commentator (British woman Islam convert ?) who was trying the same line as Qureshi about the radicalisation being due to UK foreign policy. He called her naive. Quite refreshing.

Someone interviewed yesterday on BBC news said that these guys are getting radicalised because they are getting sucked into a powerful narrative from IS, and that there needs to be an equally powerful counter narrative.

How F***ing long has it taken people to figure this out???

there needs to be an equally powerful counter narrative.

There's no such thing as god.

Works for me. 😉 😀

If you haven't read it, you really ought to read "[url= http://http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB ]"What Isis really wants"[/url]

Most illuminating.

If an individual wants to join a millennial end of days cult - and believes that there will be a final battle in Syria against the armies of Rome (I kid you not) - where 5000 Isis followers will be saved by the second coming of Christ and lead into heaven, or whatever......... I'm not sure a 'really powerful narrative' is going to cut it against this kind of bonkers thinking!!!

@futon, I doubt ISIS think they are going to be saved by Christ ! That link was posted yesterday FYI

here needs to be an equally powerful counter narrative.

The argument that UK foreign policy has radicalised these people is nonsense, ISIS is killing far more Muslims than any Western military intervention ever did. Also we see Jihadists radicalised from countries like Denmark, Sweden and Belgium. Countries with no real involvement int he Middle East.

The back story on Emza is ineresting, with co-operation from Tanzania and Kuwait he was prevented from entering Somalia and Iraq. I wonder whether MI5 got the same help from Turkey ?

@ernie, I for one have been very worried about what has been happening in Syria for 4 years. I was in favour of airstrikes on Assad to prevent the slaughter of civilians in Aleppo, there is a large Palestinain refugee community there who were being barrel bombed along with the Syrians. Then you have the use of chemical weapons. The fact is the UK parliament voted against intervention. Western people (and to an extent their governments) where weary after Afghanistan and Iraq and tried to step back, ISIS knew this and moved into the vacuum choosing to focus their attacks on the Free Syrian Army rather than Assad's troops. When the slaughter of other Muslims was extended into Iraq and they threatened Bhagdad the populations of the West realised action must be taken. So the politicians had the popular support they needed.

futon river crossing - Member

If an individual wants to join a millennial end of days cult - and believes that there will be a final battle in Syria against the armies of Rome (I kid you not) - where 5000 Isis followers will be saved by the second coming of Christ and lead into heaven, or whatever......... I'm not sure a 'really powerful narrative' is going to cut it against this kind of bonkers thinking!!!

Well here's the thing. Lets assume he's as intelligent as you or I. Do you think he believes that, or is that a justification for what he's doing... It seems fairly obvious that he wanted to join Al-Shabaab first, who are essentially a self styled sharia court who fought against a secular government in Somalia, they are not a death cult. So it seems the more far out beliefs of IS are not what drew him, rather the desire to join a militia, fight and kill. Seemingly regardless of where in the world that would be.

The argument that UK foreign policy has radicalised these people is nonsense, ISIS is killing far more Muslims than any Western military intervention ever did. Also we see Jihadists radicalised from countries like Denmark, Sweden and Belgium. Countries with no real involvement int he Middle East.

C'mon, don't make me go all jivehoneyjive here. UK and US foreign policy created these guys. And western intervention has killed many times the number of muslims IS have.

First part I agree @jimjam although he wanted to go to Kuwait/Iraq also (pre IS so probably Al-Q)

And western intervention has killed many times the number of muslims IS have.

don't agree. The vast majority of deaths in Iraq have been due to sectarian violence Sunni v Shia in suicide bombings etc. You may argue that the West created the instability by deposing Sadam but the population could have chosen another path. If the Iraqi army had stood it's ground IS would not have made the gains they did.

Will we just agree to disagree?, because that's a never ending chicken and egg argument going back to ww2 (at least).

Imagine if there was some way to keep the lid on all this crap in Iraq, with ISIS being put back in their dungeons, maybe we'd be happy to support someone who could bring that off. Someone like ... Saddam Hussein?

DrJ - Member

Imagine if there was some way to keep the lid on all this crap in Iraq, with ISIS being put back in their dungeons, maybe we'd be happy to support someone who could bring that off. Someone like ... Saddam Hussein?

Well, he's dead. So you'd need to travel back in time and arm him to the teeth with billions of pounds worth of western weapons and just hope that he wouldn't do anything silly.

I actually CBA getting involved as he is always 100% right but the numbers dont add up to support the view that the west is not worse than ISIS

If I read this right, you're saying that "the west" is at least equal to, or worse than, ISIS in it's level of debased violence?

Reckon Junky has a point:

Whether it's birth defects linked to Depleted Uranium used by allied forces in Iraq:

([url= ]warning, very disturbing image, hence linked not posted[/url])

Or the wars following 9/11 (not forgetting Al-Qaeda wouldn't exist in it's current form if not for Operation Cyclone):

[img] :large[/img]

JY, selective quoting there, you well know that I said "in this instance". Middle East is far far more complex than our other discussions. Much more subjective.

The West did not want to / be seen to be supporting Assad by attacking his enemies which conflicted them for some time and you had Russia openly supporting Assad.

@Mr Whoppit, that's certainly the view of Cage/Qureshi as per the interviews and there are those here that seem sympathetic to that line of argument.

Big row in France after 4 MPs met with Assad (yesterday ?), mixture of left and right. Story on Vice News.

Finally if anyone is interested here is the interview with Cage where Sky News reporter tells him to get over himself and he stomps off. The CAGE guy was subject to a Terrorist Control Order when we had those. BTW anyone who calls an idiotic Yes campaigner a knob is worth watching 😉

The world order eh?
In the process of trying to look like they're doing some good (but actually just trying to **** Iran and Russia over), they nurture a monster which immediately turns on them, partially resulting from other opportunities to rearrange the world order, where they nurtured a monster.........
The shocking thing is nobody ever seems to learn! Same mistakes over and over and it makes even me believe that there may be some credence to JHJ's conspiracy theories as nobody can be that stupid right? right?
TJ was right on this one, the west should have kept it's nose firmly out.

TJ was right on this one, the west should have kept it's nose firmly out.

If you read "Against all Enemies" Sadam's card was marked as following the Kuwaiti invasion and war he tried to blow up Bush senior. That was only ever going to end badly for him.

I think Kay Burley lost on that interview - summed up by her stupid grin when he walked off.

Until Iraq and Iran really did have chemical and nuclear weapons deployed by long range missiles like North Korea ?

JY from memory we have had 250,000 deaths in Iraq and 200,000 in Syria. The vast majority of both of those are from sectarian violence and Assad vs FSA/ISIS. Muslim on Muslim being my point rather than West vs Muslim.

No doubt at all that in Syria the number of people killed by Western Airstrikes is a tiny fraction of the 200,000 deaths.

ISIS has captured around 250-350 Christians from Assyrian villages and recently paraded captured Kurdish fighters in cages. I fear we will soon see a death video featuring these people, its being reported that there will be a mass killing after Friday prayers.

I think Kay Burley lost on that interview - summed up by her stupid grin when he walked off.

summed up by her stupid grin

I rather enjoyed that bit.

Those stats: I'm inclined to ask for the source, rather than just assume they're correct. It IS being posted by the Usual Numpty.

Really ? Even John Snow lost patience with CAGE.

yes, he gave pretty clear answers to the questions but she just kept banging on at him asking the same questions - not impressed with her attempts at being a heavyweight but failing.

plus his statement "So your question is inherently Islamophobic and racist."

was true.

iraqbodycount.org, Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, UN, various news services ....

jambalaya

Until Iraq and Iran really did have chemical and nuclear weapons deployed by long range missiles like North Korea ?

They (Iraq) really did have chemical weapons. West Germany sold them the chemicals. The CIA helped them to develop the weapons, and CIA advisers told them exactly where in Iran to drop them.

That's in addition to the $1billion in aid given by Reagan/Rumsfeld in the form attack helicopters and tanks, and $25billion in weapons the French sold Saddam.

Turner - I think we'll have to disagree about clear answers then, very evasive and just general statements in my book.

I appreciate that jimjam, you can use Chemicals for different things - fertilizer for example makes truck bombs. The point was mostly intended to be about the nuclear side and the long range rockets.

They (Iraq) really did have chemical weapons. West Germany sold them the chemicals. The CIA helped them to develop the weapons, and CIA advisers told them exactly where in Iran to drop them.

That being the case, is a statement like this entirely correct?

Muslim on Muslim being my point rather than West vs Muslim.

jivehoneyjive

That being the case, is a statement like this entirely correct?

Muslim on Muslim being my point rather than West vs Muslim.

More shades of grey than a warehouse full of smutty books.

So just looking up iraqbodycount (IBC) article (and remember this is an anti-war website)

During the UK action in Iraq (period 2003-2011) the website accounted for 350 civilians killed as a result of British action. This is over a period of some 150,000 casualties. Just look at the last couple of days, air strike deaths at 10%-20% of the total number of casualties and most of those (IMO) are ISIS/AlQ combatants.

[url= https://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/killed-by-uk-forces/ ]IBC link[/url]

ambalaya

So just looking up iraqbodycount (IBC) article (and remember this is an anti-war website)

During the UK action in Iraq (period 2003-2011) the website accounted for 350 civilians killed as a result of British action.

I'm afraid you can't (or you shouldn't) separate out a specific figure for people killed as a direct result of UK action separate from that of the US, or indeed militants who flooded into the country to do battle with them.

Bush an Blair went to war based on lies. Blatant lies. Five months after they had destroyed the country's government and military structures Abu musab al Zarqawi's group appear in Iraq and start attacking western troops and Shiite civilian groups.

so i read the first page, im also part way through reading Clovers link, all very interesting.

then on P2. JHJ starts. I have no interest in reading about religipeadoroyalalienconspiracybolleax

If there is any content between p2 and here that i am missing out on, please print it and send it to me.

another thread ruined. *slow hand clap*

Some interesting things in a Guardian piece. Not least how people are renouncing foreign citizenship to stop their British passports being taken away. Seems MI5 where 100% right (JY 😉 ) to be closely monitoring the group Emwazi was associating with.

[i]In January 2012, Berjawi was killed in a US drone strike in Somalia. A few hours earlier, his wife had given birth to a child at St Mary’s hospital in west London, prompting suspicions among his associates that his location had been pinpointed as a result of a telephone conversation between the couple.

The following month, Mohamed Sakr, who had been Berjawi’s next-door neighbour when they were growing up in London, was also killed in a drone strike in Somalia. Although born in Britain, Sakr’s parents were Egyptian, and the UK authorities regarded him as a dual national. Like Berjawi, he had been stripped of his British citizenship shortly before the US drone strike. His parents promptly flew to Cairo and formally renounced their Egyptian citizenship, to prevent their two other sons from being deprived of their British status.[/i]

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/26/cold-sadistic-and-merciless-mohammed-emwazis-journey-to-jihad ]link[/url]

I have no interest in reading about religipeadoroyalalienconspiracybolleax

Glad to hear it, you should give documented history a try...

@jj here's a photo for you. Our friends from CAGE with John Rees from Stop the War Coalition who arranged the pro Gaza rallies in London last year. I suppose we know who he's in coalition with now.

[img] [/img]

This is the key paragraph:

Despite this surveillance, local police in west London suspect that he engaged in a series of petty crimes. In 2010, he was charged with possession of a number of stolen expensive bicycles. One of the charges alleged that he “acquired criminal property, namely a Cannondale Bad Boy bicycle”.

^^^^ hes got a beard, stone him!

ambalaya - Member

@jj here's a photo for you.

Quereshi just went into the realms of fantasy with his defence of Emwazi. If he had even tried to temper his viewpoint considering the guy has been identified as sawing off people's heads he might have been slightly credible. But he didn't, and I think he's sunk any, even the merest hint, that MI5 may have contributed to his radicalisation.

One of the charges alleged that he “acquired criminal property, namely a Cannondale Bad Boy bicycle”.

He's probably upgraded to a [i]Cannondale Homicidal Maniac[/i] by now.

[i]Among the 17,049 civilians recorded killed, many deaths were attributable to the actions of specific armed groups while the perpetrators of many killings remain unknown. 1,748 civilians were reported killed by Iraqi military air strikes, while 4,325 were killed by ISIS. A further 10,858 civilians were reported killed by unidentified actors, where it has not been possible to establish which of the major actors, or possibly other, less well-identified groups, were involved. 118 civilians were reported killed by US-Coalition air strikes, the first time since 2011 that civilian deaths have been directly attributable to US-Coalition actions.[/i]

17,049 civilian casualties in Iraq in 2014. 118 of them as a result of US air strikes the first such deaths since 2011. Source: iraqbodycount.org

Would that be "documented history" by any chance? 😆 😆 😆

Seems quite well researched, but certainly some questions need answering:

A further 10,858 civilians were reported killed by unidentified actors, where it has not been possible to establish which of the major actors, or possibly other, less well-identified groups, were involved

I'd also appreciate a bit more background to this:

They (Iraq) really did have chemical weapons. West Germany sold them the chemicals. The CIA helped them to develop the weapons, and CIA advisers told them exactly where in Iran to drop them.

Careful now Whoppit as he follows that up with true facts

I think we may have found a replacement for Fred, possibly with a similar affliction, poor chap.

Edit: correction