[Closed] Not all programmers are on here: ISIS content.

I doubt he's anything more than a nasty bit of work with the motivation to go where he can do his thing. He needs to lose the mask if he wants to be another Che Guevara though.

Indeed. From what's been published he's a UK citizen who has had a relatively comfortable upbringing, the benefits of our educational system and a reasonably bright professional future ahead of him.

@wasawas I think the vast majority of those fighting with ISIS have no medical / mental condition at all.

[i]I think the vast majority of those fighting with ISIS have no medical / mental condition at all[/i]

I fear you're right.

People have a natural capacity for doing extreme harm to each other. Evolution. Temporal lobes too small, adrenal glands too big.

Intelligence is no guarantee of empathetic behaviour.

Don't worry, humanity will cease to exist as a viable life-form soon enough...

Any report on Jihadi Paul, George and Ringo ?

No medical or mental condition?

I disagree; I think the violence attracts people with psychopathic tendencies. No well-balanced person would want to be part of that.

I disagree; I think the violence attracts people with psychopathic tendencies.

Yeah, no doubt, it depends where you draw the line between nasty and mad.

Probably spend to much time in his mums house playing call of duty,lots of the western isis people just seem like lost losers,isis is just hovering up the dregs,they'll all turn on themselves at some point.

If you are bought up to believe another group of people are inferior then this happens, doesn't take people with psychotic tendencies, just people who believe that they are right.
Just look at the 7/7 bombers (and the ones who attempted a repeat after), would they be classed as dangerous murderers/psychopaths prior to the events, most probably not?

Any report on Jihadi Paul, George and Ringo ?

😆

they'll all turn on themselves at some point.

I bloody hope so.

Majority of human being are vile as very few are born into this world for the good. 🙄

I think the vast majority of those fighting with ISIS have no medical / mental condition at all.

Mass delusion, the same as any religious person. Just taken to an extreme degree.

If you are bought up to believe another group of people are inferior then this happens

From a Kuwaiti well to do family eh?

Where have I heard that before...

Yes, but guns, beheadings and slave girls for $10 are the stuff of teen fantasy

We are all somewhere on the spectrum between well-balanced and unbalanced, depending on our upbringing and genetics. Some of us who hover around the half way point are unlucky enough to be labelled by society. Others who harbour religious delusions are unbalanced enough to be able to justify murder in the name of our imaginary best friend.

He'll be a full blooded psychopath. Sawing peoples heads off on camera takes a "special" type of person.

Sawing peoples heads off on camera takes a "special" type of person.

For millennia killings as brutal and worse were part of every legal system I can think of. Do you think everyone in the past was a psychopath?

If beheading ISIS people was legal there would be no end of willing participants in our flat roofed pubs.

Yes, but guns, beheadings and slave girls for $10 are the stuff of teen fantasy.

The police have been to the family home in Maida Vale, I imagine to advise them to stay elsewhere and/or to offer them protection.

Telegragph reported back in 2011 that Westminster College Student Union was being infiltrated by extremists

@jj Paddington Rec part of Madida Vale isn't a well to do neighbourhood. It is certainly the type that an immigrant family would move to try and create a new life for themselves having arrived from Kuwait for example.

Surely it's just an urge to fight for a cause? The barbarity of his actions are hard to swallow, but would suggest that blanket bombing and western military's acceptance of collateral damage is equally hard to justify.
Heroism has always been a celebrated character trait, and one that governments capitalise on to feed the military with willing bodies; fighting for what they believe/told is 'right'
I think that we (the west)have to take partial responsibility for propelling this notion and fueling what is occurring in the Middle East at the moment.

lemonysam

For millennia killings as brutal and worse were part of every legal system I can think of. Do you think everyone in the past was a psychopath?

And they were carried out by executioners. So, no. I don't think everyone in the past was a psychopath. I can't quite figure out how you extrapolate from state executions that everybody in "the past" decapitated people.

I can't quite figure out how you extrapolate from state executions that everybody in "the past" decapitated people.

blanket bombing and western military's acceptance of collateral damage is equally hard to justify.

What sort of internal journey does someone go on to get where he is today?

I imagine it started with him being annoyed by pop-up ads on internet forums.

So, no. I don't think everyone in the past was a psychopath. I can't quite figure out how you extrapolate from state executions that everybody in "the past"

Aside from the fact that it's not really true to say that - executions were carried out by all sorts of people and were even treated as community events at times. Even where carried out by executions many - possibly most - people revelled in it, treated it as entertainment and took palpable joy in the murder of those they disagreed with.

Heroism has always been a celebrated character trait

Not sure how you would imagine that cutting the throat of another human being who is trussed up like a Christmas turkey whist wearing a mask to hide your identity is in anyway an act of heroism ?

DrJ 🙂

Is cutting someone's head off that different from other executions, it certainly appalls us in the West and is used a recruiting tool but overall I'm not so sure it is that different ?

Any report on Jihadi Paul, George and Ringo ?

I think they're back In The U.S.S.R.

jambalaya

DrJ

Is cutting someone's head off that different from other executions, it certainly appalls us in the West and is used a recruiting tool but overall I'm not so sure it is that different ?

As a method of killing, no. Not really. The end result is the same. But this is murder for the purpose of propaganda, and the method is chosen for maximum shock value.

lemonysam

Aside from the fact that it's not really true to say that - executions were carried out by all sorts of people and were even treated as community events at times. Even where carried out by executions many - possibly most - people revelled in it, treated it as entertainment and took palpable joy in the murder of those they disagreed with.

Reveling in the spectacle is one thing, actually doing it is entirely different. Yes, public executions were widely attended but they were contrived to be with entertainment laid on in addition to the execution. If someone was to be made an example of, the more people who saw it, the better. I still don't subscribe to the idea that 300 years ago, everyone was running around lopping off heads.

This is a pretty good article about Isis that covers motivation for it's members.

http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

blanket bombing and western military's acceptance of collateral damage is equally hard to justify.

"We haven't seen blanket bombing since Vietnam. In fact the use of targeted weaponry has meant armies/terrorists now chose to fight and shelter in civilian areas. There is far less collateral damage and civilian casualties today than there was for example in WW2, 15,000 French civilians died as a result of misguided Allied bombing as part of the Normandy landings. 15 million Russian civilians died in WW2"

I used the term blanket bombing to illustrate the inevitability of civilian casualties being caught up in military targeting.
Is even one loss of innocent life ever justifiable?

Heroism has always been a celebrated character trait

"Not sure how you would imagine that cutting the throat of another human being who is trussed up like a Christmas turkey whist wearing a mask to hide your identity is in anyway an act of heroism ?"

I don't personally find that heroic. just as many friends that have served with the military don't find their experience of ending another's life heroic. My opinion though is that both 'terrorist' and soldier find themselves at that point in their lives for not dissimilar reasons.

I am pretty much convinced by the article below describing ISIL as an end of days cult. Albeit bigger than Waco... Thing is, once you start down the path that had you looking for the signs of the apocalypse things can get detached from reality pretty quickly. And there's a whole load of justifications if you want them - he probably started with lots of lesser evils that made each step easier / more compelling and probably believes he's some kind of chosen one by now.

[url= http://http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB ]article[/url]

People have a natural capacity for doing extreme harm to each other.

I don't know if that was suppose to be a serious point but there have been plenty of studies which have concluded that it is not "natural" for a human being to kill another human being. It is very rare for an advanced mammal to kill a member of their own species. Violence and harm towards another member of their species is far more common but death if it occurs is usually accidental.

Knowing what ISIS expects their followers to do suggests that those who are attracted to them have unnatural/abnormal physiological problems.

So this so called Human Rights organisation CAGE is trying to blame the UK security services for radicalizing this terrorist by not letting him travel abroad !

[url= http://www.cageuk.org/case/mohammed-emwazi ]link[/url]

I don't know if that was suppose to be a serious point

Clover, the linked article is not avaialbe. Would like to read it.

Clover, your linked article is not available. Would like to read it.

In every discussion I think you could easily substitute "Nazi Party" for "ISIS".

It is very rare for an advanced mammal to kill a member of their own species. Violence and harm towards another member of their species is far more common but death if it occurs is usually accidental.

To play devil's advocate I would suggest that animals and humans forming warring tribal groups is totally natural and that it's actually those of us who strive to co-exist peacefully who are acting unnaturally,

It's emerging as well as being generally harassed as a Muslim tourist, and I can tell you some of them do have to put up with an awful lot of shit, he was detained in Tangier and being 'persuaded' to be an informant for MI5. This all on the lunchtime news. Threats of further harassment if he didn't comply.

None of which is entitlement to go beheading innocents, but as always there are two sides to every story and inevitably some dirty tricks on behalf of western 'agencies'

Not sure if everyone commenting has seen [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02gyz6b/adam-curtis-bitter-lake ]Bitter Lake[/url], but it's well worth a watch...

One of the basic overall conclusions is the strange alliance between the West and Saudi Arabia, who have been active in exporting [url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/wahhabism-a-deadly-scripture-398516.html ]wahhabism[/url] that forms the root of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

Given the extensive Arms trade with Saudi Arabia, not to mention long standing collusion between MI6, CIA and Saudi intelligence, it seems at odds with the peace that our leaders so readily preach.

Factor in [url= http://fortressamerica.gawker.com/the-case-that-the-saudis-did-9-11-explained-1683728623 ]Saudi Arabia's well documented links to 9/11 [/url]

and you have to wonder why:

flags were at half mast for the Death of King Abdullah...

yet flags weren't flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana...

[i]Yet flags weren't flown half mast for the Death of Princess Diana~ why is that? [/i]

because the Queen said they shouldn't: Diana was divorced from the future king and therefore not part of the 'official' royal family.

Next.

@derek the security services where doing their job, he was being "harassed" based upon his behaviour in previously trying to join Islamist groups in Somalia and the fact the UK did not want him to travel and other countries didn't want him. He was denied work in Saudi by the Saudis

because the Queen said they shouldn't because she was divorced from the future king and therefore not part of the 'official' royal family.

Does that mean King Abdullah was part of the 'official' royal family?

[i]Does that mean King Abdullah was part of the 'official' royal family? [/i]

*an* official one, certainly.

Whereas Diana wasn't part of *any* Royal Family.

If you're going to do the whole 'THE MAN's RULING THE WORLD AND IT's ALL A CONSPIRACY HERE's 5 LINKS NO ONE WILL EVER FOLLOW TO PROVE IT' thing you really ought to get the basic premise so that there's at least some doubt as to what happened and why.

I'm all over the basic premise:

the strange alliance between the West and Saudi Arabia, who have been active in exporting wahhabism that forms the root of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

[i]the strange alliance between the West and Saudi Arabia[/i]

what's strange about the West courting one of the world's largest oil producers?

It is very rare for an advanced mammal to kill a member of their own species.

Name me a point in human history when people weren't being killed by other people.

the strange alliance between the West and Saudi Arabia, who have been active in exporting wahhabism that forms the root of ISIS and Al-Qaeda.

what's strange about the West courting one of the world's largest oil producers?

Why aren't the same pleasantries extended to Iran then?

[i]Why aren't the same pleasantries extended to Iran then? [/i]

they were when it had a Royal Family.

There was a religious revolution though and the government there was very anti-western. You may have read about it?

Yes, a "royal family" was the link to the proposition.

JHJ in "unable to follow a simple argument" shocka...

Why aren't the same pleasantries extended to Iran then?

they were when it had a Royal Family.

Are you quite sure of that?

I wouldn't consider [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat ]a coup by MI6 and the CIA as particularly friendly[/url]

Strangely, the MI6 documents still remain secret and the [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup ]CIA only admitted involvement in 2013[/url], 60 years after they destabilized Iran...

[i]Strangely, the MI6 documents still remain secret [/i]

is it really strange? Like really?

Our secret services release as little information as they can about anything they do. It's hardly 'strange' that even if they were involved they'd not release details of it, more 'par for the course'.

So what were relationships like between 1953 and 1970whateveritwas when the Shah was forced out?

Yeah. Whatever.

Anyway - mash it.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/jihadi-john-hoping-isis-okay-with-people-being-unmasked-2015022695769

Is there some level of membership where I can agree to look at ads for Tudor watches in exchange for not seeing bizarre conspiracy theories?

Our secret services release as little information as they can about anything they do

So what are they up to these days?

[i]So what are they up to these days? [/i]

No idea due to;

[i]
Our secret services release as little information as they can about anything they do[/i]

and it's no good you pretending to know either. because you don't - you're just prepared to give credibility to other people's guesses and assume that if it's on a web page somewhere it must be 'the truth'.

I promised myself I wouldn't get drawn into these conversations any more. Can I blame some shadowy figure 'in authority' for not sticking to it?

Saw on the news last night, an interview with an ex-ISIS knerbhead who is now in Turkey. Apparently, he's living in fear of getting offed (bless) because although he agrees with everything being done to "unbelievers", he says the "foreign" "fighters" are hurting Muslims and he realises this after watching a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD GIRL being beheaded.

Apart from the fact that Muslims have been killing each other for not being the right sort of muslim for hundreds of years and he doesn't seem to know this, he actually seemed to think that someone should feel sorry for him.

Perhaps the internal ISIS cracks are beginning to emerge. Hopefully, we'll be able to just sit back and watch them eat each other. 😀

wwaswas - Member
Jihadi John has been named as Mohammed Emwazi, a computer programmer from West London.

What sort of internal journey does someone go on to get where he is today?

A gift for maths and a love of logical puzzles?

assume that if it's on a web page somewhere it must be 'the truth'

I'd always thought the Guardian was pretty good at getting to the truth... after all, they were deeply involved in the Snowden revelations.

Of course, you are right to question the media, after all, [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles ]Allen Dulles[/url], one of the key players in the coup of Iran was behind [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird ]Operation MockingBird[/url], where the CIA infiltrated the media, not only domestically, but internationally:

Among other dodgy dealings, Dulles [url= http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/books/review/the-brothers-by-stephen-kinzer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 ]also helped the Nazi's rise to power with his Brother John Foster Dulles [/url]and Prescott Bush, George W and Jeb Bush's Grandad.

[url= http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_14-18.pdf?q=the-dutch-connection ]They then laundered Nazi money after WW2 through dutch banks. [/url]

I wonder why these parts of history aren't taught in schools?

@JHJ - I watched Bitter Lake and whilst it was interminably dull in parts it did show some great ironing. But could have done so in ½the time.

However, in conclusion and at odd with the main thrust of the film, I don't believe there was any great conspiracy just a case of Western and Arab attitudes being very different but occasionally they worked together, whether progress was made or not is unproven. There exists a degree of trust but it is not, never has been and is unlikely to ever be complete trust in each other motives.

Hopefully, we'll be able to just sit back and watch them eat each other

That would be cool, but you just know that some idiot would come up with a smart scheme that involves supporting one gang of nutjobs against the other gangs of nutjobs, and the cycle recommences.

I think there is a lot of truth in the assertion, people can become extremely violent especially if they feel their life/livelihood is threatened or they wish to extract revenge for something they feel has been done to them directly or indirectly.

Not when it comes to killing other human beings :

[i]"Only 15 to 20 percent of the American riflemen in combat during World War II would fire at the enemy. Those who would not fire did not run or hide—in many cases they were willing to risk greater danger to rescue comrades, get ammunition, or run messages. They simply would not fire their weapons at the enemy, even when faced with repeated waves of banzai charges".[/i]

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/hope_on_the_battlefield

There is a reason why they put a mask on someone who is about to be executed by firing squad, and it isn't for the condemned person's benefit - most humans find it very difficult to look into someone's eyes and kill them, even if they feel that they "deserve" it, it just isn't natural.

"advanced mammals" (I take it you're talking about apes?)

Not at all. I'm talking about most mammals including carnivores such as felidae and canidae species. It's rare for them to kill members of their own species, it does happen but usually unintentionally, it very rarely happens intentionally. That rule can generally be applied to birds and most cold blooded animals too.

Hey, jhj.

Have you noticed that, over many different threads, you keep getting the same sort of replies to your posts, pointing out the logical fallacies and highlighting the fact that your sources are nothing more than conjecture-driven suppositions from others such as yourself, rather than anything objectively credible?

I was wondering if you know that to keep doing the same thing yet expect a different result, is a definition of insanity.

Just a thought you might want to consider...

I imagine it started with him being annoyed by pop-up ads on internet forums.

Well played, I reckon one of the mods might join due to excessive thread closing on the topic.

Anyway, here's something to cheer us up.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/isis-suffers-heaviest-defeat-iraq-101500786.html

Hey Woppit,

I guess you don't know much about the intelligence services influence on world history...

[url= http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/books/review/the-brothers-by-stephen-kinzer.html?pagewanted=all ]The Dulles Brothers are a good starting point[/url]

I'm a bit confused how you came to the conclusion that my sources are based on conjecture~ it all traces back to well documented history.

[i]well documented history.[/i]

=

"look here's a web page it must be true"

Yes. I'm interested to know why jhj doesn't seem to understand the difference between conjecture and supportive evidence.

Could you show me which of the links it is you're suggesting is mere conjecture?

As an example:

Look, here's [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar ]an article from a newspaper[/url] which presumably goes through all the same procedures as the rest of the news to verify it's truth.

I apologize if it's straying off topic slightly, but it verifies [url=

link already provided[/url] which appears a touch more obscure.

Back on topic, have ISIS made any threats on Israel?

If not, why not?

Quite an in depth chat about him now on BBC news by the director of "Cage". Talks about what a lovely guy and a beautiful young man he was before he joined ISIS.

Mentions repeated harassment by MI5 as the reason he joined IS but he really doesn't come across as convincing at all and more of an apologist excusing the inexcusable . If the kind of harassment he describes was enough to turn him into a killer it's a strange kind of miracle that every catholic male in Northern Ireland didn't join the IRA.

[i]If not, why not? [/i]

I'll be honest; I really don't care enough to try and find out.

I care about whet ISIS are doing but primarily it's the motivations of the individuals concerned that concerns me - not any theory about the overarching political aims of their organisations.

Why do people do these things? Because they think they're right. Really is that simple. Some people carpetbag companies, some people carpetbomb countries, some people become terrorists, some become politicians, some just rant on forums but it's all basically teh same thing, "rightness" above reason.

I rather favour binner's "It's all about power and control" hypothesis.

Remember, when Jihadi John went to fight in Syria in 2012, he was on the same side in the conflict as the UK + U.S. Establishments

They never can seem to make their minds up:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Wonder if the instability caused by the rapid rise of ISIS from nowhere will help conquer Assad?

Yeah, he probably sang "God Save the Queen" before every execution, huh?

Like the Saudi's you mean?

Why do people do these things? Because they think they're right. Really is that simple. Some people carpetbag companies, some people carpetbomb countries, some people become terrorists, some become politicians, some just rant on forums but it's all basically teh same thing, "rightness" above reason.

Youre wrong there.............