[Closed] Non stupid car design/features you actually need.

it would be great if these things allowed people to redouble their efforts at focusing on the business of driving but the truth is it just frees them up to text or tweet

I honestly cannot imagine that this is the case. People don't sit there and go "ah well my right foot's now free, I can send a text". That's just daft. As has already been mentioned, using your right foot and changing gear are instinctive. If you're a dozy inattentive driver, then you are going to be one regardless of your car. I can imagine that IF you are already inattentive then cruise may be more dangerous, perhaps, but in any kind of emergency situation you are going to hit the brakes exactly the same, and the same results will apply.

I use cruise and auto. I'm on a motorway surrounded by cars and lorries all at different speeds, and I'm concentrating on them. Not having to watch my speedo as often or change gear (which doens't happen anyway) doesn't make any difference. If I don't watch out, I'm going to crash - regardless.

I use cruise for two reasons - firstly, I know my speed won't be creeping up or down as easily (although it can do on steep downhills) so I have to check my speedo less often (but I still do). Secondly it gives my foot a rest. That's the main reason.

The necessary things are the properly adjustable driving seat and steering wheel - anything else is just laziness and more electronic junk to go wrong and cost lots

Nah - the more automatic stuff, the more I can concentrate on driving.

My most important list in some sort of order:

Reach adjustable steering wheel
Aircon
Cruise
Steering wheel radio controls
Electric door mirrors
Central locking
Entertainment options like DAB or internet radio capability
Built in satnav so I can have a clear windscreen and turn arrows on the dash.. oh and it should have effective voice control too.
Climate control that works well
Automatic

Things I don't have but would like, and are available, in no order

Adaptive cruise
Dimming rear view mirror
Automatic traffic jam creeping
Rain sensing wipers
Cooled seats
Blind spot protection (belt and braces)
Detatchable towbar
Self levelling suspension
Adaptive chassis control
And probably some more...

Things that I really really want, and would be extremely easy to make, but in explicably no-one does:

A bin in the centre console! Why on Earth does this not exist?

Sorry to spanner the auto/manual debate, but it is going to be an electric car....

can't dangle a 50ft power lead 4 storeys down from my bedroom balcony to to a city centre street to charge it

only ever seen about 1 charging point anywhere, ever. but I don't recall where that was.

98 octane for me

I just realised I have described a modern day Hillman Imp

Front engine front drive is definitely better for Joe Public small car in terms of use of space. I've been very tempted by a Toyota IQ for some time but can't quite bring myself to. In a compact I would like to be able to fold/remove rear seats and be able to cover the resulting load bay.

Sorry to spanner the auto/manual debate, but it is going to be an electric car....

Sorry to spanner the auto/manual debate, but it is going to be an electric car....

mine won't

can't dangle a 50ft power lead 4 storeys down from my bedroom balcony to to a city centre street to charge it

Interesting point, and I think, and perhaps central to the design issue.

molgrips

I honestly cannot imagine that this is the case. People don't sit there and go "ah well my right foot's now free, I can send a text". That's just daft.

Sorry Molgrips I probably should have used more smiley faces or exclamation marks to denote the fact that I wasn't being totally literal, I presumed most people would realise that [i][b]"forwarding a tweet as a text while they have a sandwhich as they light a fag as they do their make up and shout at the kids[/b]"[/i] was hyperbole but evidently not. And whilst I acknowledge your god like mastery and skill when it comes to driving, and genuinely appreciate the way in which you proactively seek out and contradict myself and many others on the errors of our driving ways on a regular basis, I would like to take this opportunity, if I may be so bold I'd like to rephrase that in a way that may be pleasing or agreeable to you, my lord of the road, hallowed be your mpg, blessed be your diesel.

So please don't smite me down for my insolence but here goes. Peoples attention spans are getting shorter. People rely more and more on electronic devices. More and more people text while driving. Cars are less involving to drive, easier to drive, more comfortable to drive and electronic aids exacerbate this, rather than decrease this.
The roads are much busier than 20 years ago, and the likelihood the driver in the next lane isn't concentrating is much higher (not you obviously, i know you don't even blink when you drive and you see things before they happen).

I use cruise and auto. I'm on a motorway surrounded by cars and lorries all at different speeds, and I'm concentrating on them. Not having to watch my speedo as often or change gear (which doens't happen anyway) doesn't make any difference. If I don't watch out, I'm going to crash - regardless.

I use cruise for two reasons - firstly, I know my speed won't be creeping up or down as easily (although it can do on steep downhills) so I have to check my speedo less often (but I still do). Secondly it gives my foot a rest. That's the main reason.

I don't find that I need to check my speedo that often. The engine note is a pretty good indictator. If I had cruise control I wouldn't use it, not only because of the cosseting effect but I dislike the way it uses engine braking to moderate speed on declines. Hopefully you can find it in your hear to forgive my impertinent and ignorant prattling.

and even if there were charging points in every parking space in every carpark and autobahn services, I can stick 55 litres of 98 in my car in about 5 minutes. Leccy needs to be able to do the same.

might work in that 100% electric 2.3 children semidetached house with garage and driveway utopia, but won't work anywhere else (other than a minority of council vehicles used to empty bins in the pedestrian precinct)

Peoples attention spans are getting shorter...

I don't disagree at all.

The only thing I disagree about is that not using cruise control improves attention to traffic. I think that the level of distraction of many people is so great that the right foot isn't going to make a difference. They already don't concentrate on it - see how their speed varies up and down hills, and see how they slam on the brakes at speed cameras, because they had no idea how fast they were going in the first place.

Leccy needs to be able to do the same.

Well apparently lots of people have small cars that only drive around town, nowhere else - in which case, electric cars are perfect. However, the big problem is that all these small runabouts are small CHEAP runabouts. An electric Micra needs to cost roughly the same as a 1.0l petrol one - otherwise they'll stay niche.

Small & cheap point.. but can we have USB charging / connection points including one on the top of the dash for powering satnav? Saves having cable dropping all the way down to near the gearstick getting in the way.

and +1 for doge!

J

I once had an old Nissan Almeira that was both brilliant and useless in equal measure, "features" of that car which newer cars are sometimes missing and I in turn yearn for.

Sunglasses compartment, fully felt lined so no need for additional cases.

Adjustable windscreen wiper timer, so wipers while on intermittent could be set to go anywhere between say 2 seconds and 10 seconds apart, thus avoiding the "intermittent, no too slow I can't see, full on, SCREEEEEEEEECH, no not quite raining enough" dilema.

Curry hook, never seen this in any other car, genius cheap idea. little retractable hook in the passenger footwell for hanging your takeaway on while you drive it home, prevents you from running over old people because you are trying not to brake too hard incase your food slides off the chair, or falls over in the footwell.

These should all come in under your budget

I think that the level of distraction of many people is so great that the right foot isn't going to make a difference. see how their speed varies up and down hills, and see how they slam on the brakes at speed cameras, because they had no idea how fast they were going in the first place.

I'll bet you a tenner the people who are slamming on their brakes know exactly how fast they are going - sitting at 85mph and they've just seen plod on the bridge.

@Andy - what's your opinion of flow cells?

Also, would you be happy if you could, somehow recharge quicker?

[url= http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/14/10/14/2135208/battery-breakthrough-researchers-claim-70-charge-in-2-minutes-20-year-life ]Like this[/url], perhaps?

Or this?

The thing is, reciprocating internal combustion engines are a very refined sort of an ancient technology, all those moving parts, high stresses, liquid flows, oil pumps etc etc...

I'd like heated mirrors, other than that I'm happy.

20yr old Micra, so no gadgetry.
Even has exercise windows!

never used flow cells, so can't comment.

if I can get 700km from a battery, at autobahn speeds, and replenish it in 2-3mins then we're talking.

but it depends on that replenishment. 2-3 mins in any "petrol" station, no problems. 8 hours on charge overnight. forget it. save them for milk floats and local delivery vehicles and the like.

yes leccy may be "perfect" for short trips around town... but only if you have a way to get the energy in to it. and I'm certainly not in a minority that has no feasible means of getting that electricity in to the car... at least with present technology.

I can't believe no one has said an app that lets them turn on their heating via their phone so that the car is warm when they get into it.

Oh, and heated steering wheels, hmmmm.

I'll bet you a tenner the people who are slamming on their brakes know exactly how fast they are going

No, they don't, because they still slam on even when they are doing under the speed limit. There's a 40mph one near me on a DC and people drive up to it at 40mph brake down to 30 and then accelerate away to 50.

Something that would make [b]indicators[/b] really easy for all the stupid morons on the road to use.
I don't know, like if they were controlled by a little stick right by your hand that you could simply push in the direction you were intending to go with a slight movement of your little finger...

oh.

The little parking ticket clip in a Volvo windscreen. Genius.

molgrips
No, they don't, because they still slam on even when they are doing under the speed limit. There's a 40mph one near me on a DC and people drive up to it at 40mph brake down to 30 and then accelerate away to 50.

Yes they do. As I've said time and again, stick to 70mph on a motorway and you'll see 60% of cars rocketing passed you. I hardly ever exceed 70mph on motorways and the one nearest me has a spot where cops love to sit, I see it every time I drive this stretch, which is two or three times a week - cars flying past and then hitting the anchors because they've seen the cops and know they are speeding.

I have every bit as good an idea as you what's going on with the drivers I share the road with.

Yes they do. As I've said time and again, stick to 70mph on a motorway and you'll see 60% of cars rocketing passed you.

I think you misunderstood. Yes, people do slam on when they are concentrating and speeding, of course. You are entirely correct.

But there is also a sizeable portion of people who are not speeding and still brake when they see a camera - the only explanation I can think of is that they are not paying any attention to speed at all, and simply brake when they know they are near the camera (it's fixed on a busy local route). There are also peopel who are going slightly over, who brake far more than they need to down to 30mph.

Glasses for white van drivers, taxis,busses abd tipper trucks.

Spotify in car stereos and the volume that goes up and down dependant on the speed and ambient cabin sound.

Rust proof cars

But there is also a sizeable portion of people who are not speeding and still brake when they see a camera - the only explanation I can think of is that they are not paying any attention to speed at all, and simply brake when they know they are near the camera

Granted, some of them won't know what speed they are doing, some of them won't know what speed they should be doing. Some won't know whether to trust their sat nav or their speedo, or their phone app. Some won't know how far out their speedo is thanks to the **** wheels they might have on the car. And most just won't want to take the chance to get a ticket at all so overcompensate and slow down to where they know they have no chance of getting in bother.

Dab (FM is dead to me man)

Thanks for all the replies, many of them are feesible, I think.

I am surprised there's such a demand for gadgets, I find it interesting!

The issue with providing all these gizmos is the energy density of fossil fuel is so high that providing them doesn't really have a downside, other than cost.

I suspect we're all being taken in by the slick marketing of the modern car companies "You need this gadget".

Do we really need all these things integrated into a car? Do you expect your bike to navigate for you, for example?

pizza oven
hot smoker
sausage rack

I haven't eaten

volume that goes up and down dependant on the speed and ambient cabin sound.

Automatic emergency braking (a la VW Up / Volvo etc).

Stability protection.

Both of which have saved me from one minor bump when someone tried a crash-for-cash stunt, and one potentially nasty accident when the council only bothered to grit half of a major A-road and left the entire tarmac as one unbroken slab of black ice. Felt like a giant hand grabbed the car and turned it around the corner for me. Car behind went into the ditch.

Do you expect your bike to navigate for you, for example?

Can be just as useful. Just look at the number of threads about Garmin/Mapranger/OS maps on phone etc etc.

I mean, I CAN do it with a map, just as I can in the car - but my rides are better when I'm not having to stop to check maps.

Essential -

Heated screens & mirrors
Intermittent rear wipe (My Civic doesn't have one. Honestly.)
Time adjustable intermittent wipe
ABS
Towbar
ISOFIX
Sound system with 3.5mm jack
Cup holder that can hold a standard shape travel mug

Nice to have -

12V or USB plug on the dash for satnav.
Cruise control
Centre console pocket with 12V socket & 3.5mm jack
A/C (would rather just use shades in the back to keep it cool)
A bin. Anywhere.

Can really live without -

Adaptive cruise
Auto braking
Auto lights
Backlit instruments (too easy to not realise your lights are off)
Rear windscreen removed from an AT-AT parts bin

What's the research for gofasterstripes?

There's a few ideas above that I'd agree with and most of them don't add a significant chunk of weight and probably don't cost a huge amount and if you're going for a £7k price point, it's best if they're cheap.

Oh and at £7k it def won't be electric - whoever mentioned that, we've a long way to go before even a basic EV can be that cheap unless you're talking big volume.

Heated screen - means you can do away with all the demister plumbing.
Heated Mirrors - they'll just need wiring into the screen circuit and you'll be able to buy them OEM - a small weight gain for a good benefit
Heated seats/wheel - Possibly allow less cabin heating by heating directly the contact points
Steering wheel controls - I've not had them before this car and they are useful but not sure they're worth the weight. The Elemental guys had a great idea using a button board instead of switches which'd save a chunk of weight. I'm certainly borrowing the idea if I ever get as far as producing my car.

[url=

RP1 Dash[/url]

That idea would definitely save some weight/cost as it takes a huge amount of moulding out of the dash

Other than that I'd be happy for most things to be manual but I'd definitely need a good stereo

G

My car has only one thing on your list, Squirrel, ABS.

I find the split back seat quite handy.

Hey - the research is for the design of an electric car 🙂 It's a university project, ongoing postgrad stuff.

Price, well, you're right that it's not easy at these prices, but we're looking to the future, and I don't mind saying stuff which is not possible now, because as you know, it's no good designing for now 😉

But you're able to buy any number of 10kW electric cars right now from China with a 140kM range for <£5k, and that's without a subsidy.

I remember back in the day when airbags were new, thinking "that should be standard on everything". What, 25 years later and it's a no-brainer. Same goes for ABS. My wife's last two cars both have crash mitigation, and I absolutely think the world would be a better place when that was standard. Yes, driving deserves every ounce of the driver's attention, and i think autonomous cars are a terrible idea, but for that one accident that technology can save you from it is completely worth it!
A few months ago her car saved our bacon by automatically hauling on the anchors as some moron crossed three lanes to catch his turn-off. That extra half a second or less of braking the system provided absolutely stopped us from making contact with another vehicle... I wouldn't want her driving anything without some such system any more...

There's things that are essential, which are few. Wheels and that. But then there's things that once you've used them for a little while, leave a gaping hole when absent. Nonessential but hugely habit forming. So I guess I'm addicted to automatic headlights and cruise control. (I never thought I'd trust the headlights but they've been flawless- better than human) I'm glad I have ABS even though I very rarely use it. MP3 compatability or USB (not just a convenience thing, removes the temptation to fanny around with stereos on the move)

Oh and because it's STW, WINTER TYRES!

A big square hatch at the back and room inside for my bike.

Everything else is secondary.

But you're able to buy any number of 10kW electric cars right now from China with a 140kM range for <£5k, and that's without a subsidy.

Are they something anyone would want to drive though?

No - which is why I'm involved 😉

I don't think we can bank on battery technology, right now. We aren't going to get the 300 mile range with a 5 min recharge ever, I don't think. Might as well wait for the fusion powered car.

However making them cheap isn't a bad idea.

Then - if it's cheap, don't put any gadgets on it because if cheapness is the USP it'll need to be as cheap as possible. If they were £5k and decent to drive/use they'd sell like hot cakes, even with a 40 mile range. If they were £8k and came with satnav and cruise and heated seats, they'd lose out to cheap petrol cars I reckon.

You could have battery pack size as an option. So you buy it in 20/40/60 mile range and pay accordingly. That would be a real winner imo.

gofasterstripes - Member
Hey - the research is for the design of an electric car It's a university project, ongoing postgrad stuff.

We ought to talk - I'm working on a lightweight EV and this is my mule:-

[url= ?dl=0]Trike[/url] (not sure if that link will work outside my Dropbox login)

and it's pretty rapid even with just 15kW but then it does only weight 360kgs, 10kW in a heavier body would be getting a bit pedestrian.

20/40/60 mile range

around town, I can walk faster than tanking up the car or finding a parking spot.

Well done Speeder, you've designed the

[img] [/img]

😉

200/400/600 mile range before I'd even look.

Yeah well that ain't happening. I'm talking about replacing a city car, not replacing your long distance car.

Speeder - Renault Twizy?

but a 20 mile range will be "up to" 20, so probably more like 10 or so (especially when cold). so is a car that would need to be pretty much permanently on charge when not in use.

60 might just about be a once a week charge.

200 probably could be.

sure some might be able to make use of that (indeed some already do, with things like GWiz), but 20 mile range is probably 1970's milkfloat spec. and they charged up overnight, and virtually crawled back to the depot.

Takes another interesting turn...

Don't you think it's time to stop parroting the "LOL it's a C5" line? Why does that always get brought-up?

The central issue surrounding this is the comparison between the C5, Speeder's Trike and a 1500kg car. They're not the same thing, they shouldn't be the same design, they shouldn't be compared....and yet it's within a day on this thread, people start comparing them.

It's almost like the character assignation by the big auto companies worked, isn't it? 😉

but a 20 mile range will be "up to" 20, so probably more like 10

I wasn't outlining design specs, I just pulled those numbers out of thin air. I was just saying that different sized battery packs would be an option so you pay less if you need less range.

GFS - the issue, for me, is that tiny electric cars seem neither one thing or the other. If I drive, it's because I want a safe solid comfy place to be. A small personal mobility thing would be ok but tbh I might as well ride my bike. Or use a scooter.

It's more vulnerable than a car, and way more expensive and harder to park than a bike.

Plus people keep talking about London - I'd just use the tube!