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Just been announced.
Understandable, but feel for the athletes; playing in packed stadia/arenas/venues must be one of the highlights of the games for them
Watching Premier League footy has been just about bearable without crowds, but the Olympics is largely so tedious anyway, you can expect as much excitement as popping down to your local athletics track or swimming pool on a wet Tuesday afternoon to watch a couple of people half-heartedly training.
Its difficult to see a reason for even bothering, really
Might get some interesting results though. Different mentalities shining through.
Might get some interesting results though. Different mentalities shining through.
I'm not sure it will, athletics struggles to get spectators for big events outside the Olympics.
It's a big issue because if you're not the next Ussain Bolt, Jessica Ennis-hill, Mo, KJT etc then you're pretty much jobless for 3 years in between Olympics as sponsors don't care about the annual world championships you got gold in front of 7 spectators, your mum and 5 people watching on TV, they're only fussed about you doing it in front of a billion people for the Olympics.
There's a perennial argument between the IOC and host cities each time because the IOC like to give the games to cities that will retain a legacy of the facilities. Whereas cities would much rather built temporary stadiums that will be full for 2 weeks rather than just be a white elephant forevermore.
There's been concerns about local cases for some time this year, so not doing "event testing" with a lack of PCR tests is understandable for Japan.
However, no spectators means very little income to cover any of the hosting costs... OOF.
So sad. London 2012 was bouncing.
I have wondered how the Olympic games runs as a business. When London won it, there were stories (scare stories?) about the real legacy being a debt that would take 20 years to pay. No idea if that was true, or just normal moaning by the moaning press.
Also, I'm sure more recent games have had swathes of empty seats in the stadiums, even on premier event days, and local have been given cheap/free seats just to make it look less bad on TV.
So maybe lots of the income is generated by selling TV rights and advertising space?
The host country desperately wants the games cancelled, but can't because the IOC would impose ruinously expensive costs on them.
The only reason it's still going ahead is so TV and sponsor contracts can be fulfilled and the IOC gets its cash. Sad for the athletes and Japan.
Wikipedia says:
Rio games cost USD $ 13,100,000,000 and lost USD 2 Billion
London cost USD $ 14,600,000,000 and does not state a profit or loss. But does say the tax man paid USD $ 4,400,000,000
Basically it does not work as a business. Its a government vanity project.
From the Council on Foreign Relations paper "Economics of hosting the Olympics":
Cities must first invest millions of dollars in evaluating, preparing, and submitting a bid to the IOC. The cost of planning, hiring consultants, organizing events, and the necessary travel consistently falls between $50 million and $100 million. Tokyo spent as much as $150 million on its failed 2016 bid, and about half that much for its successful 2020 bid, while Toronto decided it could not afford the $60 million it would have needed for a 2024 bid.
I have wondered how the Olympic games runs as a business.
It doesn't. If you host it, you'll lose an absolute fortune.
It does however look attractive to the kind of people who love nothing more than spaffing billions of pounds of other peoples money on vanity projects and probably diverting a good chunk of those billions into the pockets of their mates
Shall we just remind ourselves who was in charge in London in 2012 😉
The only reason it’s still going ahead is so TV and sponsor contracts can be fulfilled and the IOC gets its cash. Sad for the athletes and Japan.
The athletes want it to go ahead as well. Sad that they won't have the crowds, but they want to compete.
And it's all a wonderful gravy train for the IOC.
Sad that they won’t have the crowds, but they want to compete.
Can they not do it on Zoom?
And it’s all a wonderful gravy train for the IOC.
An organisation so unapologetically corrupt they make FIFA look like the Salvation Army
Legacy?
I think London 2021 left the legacy others can only aspire to. At least find a top flight football club that needs a new ground before bidding. And a top school with a decent lake helps too.
London Olympics was also used to upgrade tube lines and redevelop the area around the Olympic Park. Overall, it was done well. Facilities like the pool are still in use - my daughters have swam in it!
Athens Olympics on the other hand - white elephants all round.
I have wondered how the Olympic games runs as a business.
It doesn't, it's a franchise model whereby the host city takes on all of the costs and risks while IOC (which is a fairly small organisation) essentially sub-contracts everything out and provides the rules/regulations/standards etc under which to run it.
IOC adds the value of the Olympics brand but then it's up to the host to monetise it all. And a host only has one chance to get it right which makes it incredibly easy to lose money.
Why don't all the competing country's just pay a fee and its held in Greece, where it started. Each time they can improve/update the facilities.
I don't understand why it has to move about really. Just pick a country (Greece presumably) and hold it there every time. Same for the world cup, motor racing...crazy having to create a brand new stadium every 4 years that'll be used a handful of times for original purpose and then get offloaded.
Where will the IOC delegates get their bribes from if there is no bidding process for the host countries?
Same for the world cup, motor racing…crazy having to create a brand new stadium every 4 years that’ll be used a handful of times for original purpose and then get offloaded.
Do you watch any sport and do you really need this explained to you? (Could be really boring if F1 is included in the mansplaining!)
Facilities like the pool are still in use – my daughters have swam in it!
The Olympic version isn't what you see now though. For the Olympics, it was built with two big "wings" each about the size of the central hall to accommodate the stands which were subsequently demolished.
https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/19020255.revealed-much-london-stadium-costing-taxpayers/
Aye, a great idea.
and meanwhile how many non-olympic swimming pools, sports halls, fields etc are lost because of a lack of money, I'm struggling to get excited tbh as only a handful of athletes entrants etc get any viable benefit from it.
The Olympic version isn’t what you see now though. For the Olympics, it was built with two big “wings” each about the size of the central hall to accommodate the stands which were subsequently demolished.
Still the same facility though and a great example of how it can be done. https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/tokyo-olympics-100-days-to-go-what-has-become-of-the-london-2012-olympic-venues-070700192.html
Athletes all in bubbles too, do your sport then leave. No chance to see anything else or enjoy the athletes village. Won’t be the experience 2012 was 🙄
[quo https://www.guardian-series.co.uk/news/19020255.revealed-much-london-stadium-costing-taxpayers/
Aye, a great idea.isn't that mainly because West Ham are paying **** all rent to use it, rather than the actual going rate, for whatever reason?.. not because intrinsically the stadium was a bad idea
I was in London in the Stratford/East village area last weekend as it happens. It's a bloody nice part of London. It might've cost a fortune, and been cheaper if not having to pay for the Olympics as well, but without them the regeneration and all the sports facilities, etc probably would never have happened. So overall definitely a good thing IMO.
Won’t be the experience 2012 was 🙄
Has to be said, much as there was a LOT of negative coverage around 2012 - the cost, the empty seating, the arguments about legacy and so on - it was an amazing experience.
I remember walking out of the velodrome on the evening of Super Saturday and across a nearly deserted plaza and hearing the roars from the athletics stadium. The noise in the velodrome as well, the crowd being super respectful at the start when urged to silence for the countdown and then the cheers as the racing started. The sound when the Women's Team Pursuit world record went to Team GB, just WOW.
Still the same facility though and a great example of how it can be done.
I suppose there's the argument that the venues generates more income than just the tickets (hotels, people visiting London for a 2 week holiday based around one event, etc). Which probably offsets some of the stories about the games loosing £4billion.
Still smarts a bit when you're riding over a wrecked bit of trail at Swinley that there's basically unused and inaccessible MTB track in Essex. And that all the pools around here seem to be struggling with a rolling series of closures and demolitions as they're all basically f****d and the council is struggling to refurbish/rebuild them.
I spent most of my time between 2008 and 2018 in Hackney Wick, a couple of hundred yards from the Stadium. The level of development there and all the way up the Lee Valley has been astronomical, as have been the corresponding improvements to infrastructure.
Similarly, as a Mancunian I can testify to the shot in the arm the Commonwealth games gave to the city. It looked at Barcelona and saw how an international sporting event could put a city on the global map.
Done right, the return on the investment can be immeasurable. Both East London and Manchester were either in need of, or would benefit from massive investment and development.
Can't see what's in it for Tokyo though?
So given the choice between exposing their citizens to greater risk from Covid, or making a few quid from additional tourists attending the Olympics, the Japanese have chosen the former.
Imagine that!
isn’t that mainly because West Ham are paying **** all rent to use it, rather than the actual going rate, for whatever reason?.. not because intrinsically the stadium was a bad idea
It's one problem though. Build a stadium at a high cost, and the only available tennant pays a low cost. Chicken and egg scenario, just don't build it at all, use an existing stadium. Or am I missing something?.
It’s one problem though. Build a stadium at a high cost, and the only available tennant pays a low cost. Chicken and egg scenario, just don’t build it at all, use an existing stadium. Or am I missing something?.
But then you have the IOC beating you up in the bid process that you don't have a good enough proposal... (plus the brown envelopes of course).
Hasn't the gentrification of the Stratford area just been another blow for the affordability of housing for the pre-development locals, who are now priced out of the market.
The Olympic version isn’t what you see now though. For the Olympics, it was built with two big “wings” each about the size of the central hall to accommodate the stands which were subsequently demolished.
The wings were designed as demountable temporary structures, as was the basketball and waterpolo buildings. Lots of smart thinking using standardised components that have seen re-use as stages and reconfigured into other buildings. The re-use thing was pushed hard by the organising committee to minimise waste (and cost).
I worked on the design of one of the large sponsors pavilions. It was carefully engineered to be taken apart and transported elsewhere, but visiting site in autumn 2012 it was being flattened by an excavator. Not a happy moment. Corporate sponsors don't give a shit once the crowds have gone.
Still smarts a bit when you’re riding over a wrecked bit of trail at Swinley that there’s basically unused and inaccessible MTB track in Essex.
It's a pretty deprived area with very few facilities for outdoor activities, quite heavily populated too. Seems a reasonable place for some development rather than the home counties. Was quite busy last time I was there, too. Be nice if it wasn't an either/or but the Olympics has left a legacy of a facility where there wasn't one before.
I was sceptical of the trickle down of cash that was promised for London 2012. As it turned out we did see a good amount of work off the back of the games. I guess that is tricky to quantify Accurately on a national scale. I can see how seductive it could look. We started the London bid under Labour didn’t we so was a Labour / Livingstone vanity project. Boris just happened to be Mayor at the time. I guess you could say it worked well for him.
So given the choice between exposing their citizens to greater risk from Covid, or making a few quid from additional tourists attending the Olympics, the Japanese have chosen the former.
Imagine that!
The figures I saw (IIRC it was on Channel 4 news) were that 90%+ of the Japanese population were strongly opposed to having spectators in the venues. As a government who fancies getting re-elected, thats your decision made for you.
As an aside, while we're talking Olympics there's a 3 part BBC documentary about the rise of British medals since the Atlanta failure. A bit about funding and grass roots in there. Part 2 tonight at 8, on iPlayer for catching up
We started the London bid under Labour didn’t we so was a Labour / Livingstone vanity project. Boris just happened to be Mayor at the time. I guess you could say it worked well for him.
Pretty much everything positive that Boris happily takes the credit for had eff all to do with him ie: the vaccination programme
Still the same facility though and a great example of how it can be done.
How many swimming pools for £269m?
In London, one
– it was an amazing experience.
Have to agree with that
The shivers down my spine when Team GB emerged to David Bowie’s “ Heroes “ will stay with me for the rest of my life…..
By far and away the most exhilarating night out ever,
And then watching the Time Trial at Hampton Court 🤗🤗
I found it cringworthy and far too jingoistic
nickjb
Free MemberBe nice if it wasn’t an either/or but the Olympics has left a legacy of a facility where there wasn’t one before.
When they built the XC track for the commonwealth games in Glasgow 2014, it had more public users before the Games than the Olympic track could claim for its entire life at the time... And you can talk about deprived areas but the event sucked money from the entire country.
The London olympics was better than most for "legacy" but that's a really low bar, not a success story. In value terms it was basically a way of building new facilities, housing, etc for several times the normal cost. And then post-olympics there's a lot to criticise about how it was managed. Subsidising premier league football teams and cutting grassroots sport, ffs.
But even i have to admit it went a lot better than feared.
Have to agree with that
Indeed. Just a hilight and very memorable. The London velodrome is also a super facility. Interestingly, the Athena velodrome is still in use. The Lee valley water park is also huge fun. Eton lake appears unchanged, however (currently closed due to covid)
When they built the XC track for the commonwealth games in Glasgow 2014, it had more public users before the Games than the Olympic track could claim for its entire life at the time
That's not surprising, the Hadliegh MTB trail was modified after the games and didn't open to the public until 2014.
At least the London stadium is being used by West Ham. Don valley, built for the the World student games in Sheffield (1991) was knocked down before the council has even finished paying for it. Ponds Forge (swimming/leisure facility) always seems to be running at a loss too. Very similar, on a smaller scale, to the Greek Olympic(s) tragedy. Sheffield also had the Arena built; this is also struggling now as Leeds recently built its arena. We also once had an airport, but that's another story......
'In 1991, the World Student Games were held in the city. In order to host such a major event, a massive building programme got under way, building venues such as the Sheffield Arena and the Don Valley Stadium. Twenty years on - and after refinancing - the initial cost of building works (£147 million) has risen to £650 million, with less than half (£296 million) having been paid off. The council currently spends £30 million a year to fulfill its financial obligations, and it is estimated this debt will not be paid off until 2024.' Source