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I don't have an answer for the problem of the far right. But the link between demographic changes and the rise of the far right looks clear to me.
Given the opportunity about 15% of pretty much any "liberal democracy" will vote for the nearest thing they can find to Mosely or Mussolini - the error bars on that figure are pretty large but the point is there are non trivial percentage of people who would openly support far right policies given the chance.
In the UK we had for probably 20+ years a broad socially progressive consensus that basically meant that things like racism and homophobia were essentially just deleted from civil discourse, I mean a Conservative Prime Minister pushed through gay marriage. There was a similar consensus on the other side of the Atlantic, they had a black president. Woke had won.
But the racists had not gone away, and tension rose with the influx of European workers during the 2000's. Concerns around immigration were one of the key issues in the run up to the Brexit vote. "Take Back Control", "Breaking Point" all featured prominently, and we had a sizeable chunk of the population who were fed up being told that they were racist and out of touch, who also so no real benefits of either the liberal consensus or our place in the EU.
And then the vote came and we all know what happened.
Brexit is basically the inflection point for all that has occurred since. It gave people who had been told that their views were unacceptable a voice. It also, ironically, forced a change to the type of immigrant that came to the UK, white Europeans were replaced by West Asian and African migrants.
At the same time politics also flipped in the US, and this basically opened the floodgates for funding of right wing groups and "think tanks" both in the US and here. A "media political complex" grew funded by rich donors, amplifying right wing talking points.
Brexit also slowed economic growth and coupled with Covid and other economic shocks has basically meant the slowest increase in real wages for possibly 50 years
So here we are. The country is ****ed. the "deplorables" have a voice, and a party they can vote for. They are pissed off because nothing has changed. The lefties are still calling them thick racists, but "We won, get over it". Fundamentally all of this stems from one thing - economic inequality. No one would give a shit if their neighbour went to a different church or looked different if there were genuine prospects for everyone.
But there are not. And I see no prospect of this changing anytime soon. Its going to be a long summer.
All that is spot on... except...
No one would give a shit if their neighbour went to a different church or looked different if there were genuine prospects for everyone.
Fewer people might care... but there are absolutely people doing very well who still get upset if someone foreign looking/sounding moved into their close, or if the nice nurse giving them their flu jab wasn't white, or a car park is going to have a mosque built on it. Economic hard times are a great recruiter for the far right, but as you say, there is a proportion of the public that would support them come what may... and many are well to do privately educated middle class people... I've met many of them.
If you give them the simplistic option of reducing the competition by removing people not like them, and use the media to promote it, then a large proportion will go along with it.
Aside from them you start losing the people who can provide that. An example I saw was someone complaining about the nearest school being further away but that was down to a drop in children. More immigrants might actually result in a closer school.
We need the politicians to explain why these simple options are wrong. They are being pushed by the hard right elites as it does distract people from the real issues.
Housing the obvious issue is that the issue with Thatcherism is eventually you run out of state assets to give away cheap and then the bills come due. Yet all these right wing ****wits worship here and want to double down on her destructive policies.
It also, ironically, forced a change to the type of immigrant that came to the UK, white Europeans were replaced by West Asian and African migrants.
It wasnt ironic at all. It was one of the promises by the brexiteer elite. Its just they said that part quietly in many parts of the country.
They are pissed off because nothing has changed. The lefties are still calling them thick racists
Most lefties dont. A subset do but most of the time the announcement of thick racists is a claim made by the brexiteer elite again to try and shut down discussion. Like the NHS immigration is one of those subjects where people shout it cant be discussed to avoid their statements about it being discussed. Lines are pushed continuously but never challenged.
Although admittedly it is hard not to consider them a bit thick when after seeing the results of Farage and co lying to them once they seem ready to vote for him again.
Fewer people might care... but there are absolutely people doing very well who still get upset if someone foreign looking/sounding moved into their close, or if the nice nurse giving them their flu jab wasn't white, or a car park is going to have a mosque built on it. Economic hard times are a great recruiter for the far right, but as you say, there is a proportion of the public that would support them come what may... and many are well to do privately educated middle class people... I've met many of them.
Yes that's probably a very fair addition to my rant, I'm just honestly deeply frustrated and a bit scared with where we are right now.
I'm no fan of the Tories (quelle surprise), but I've never thought they were evil - at least not structurally.
But Farage, Lowe and their ilk, and the dark network of right wing money funding all this, from Musk to Theil and Koch just seems to come from a much worse place than any politics in recent times, but go back about 90 or so years...
I'm no fan of the Tories (quelle surprise), but I've never thought they were evil - at least not structurally.
But Farage, Lowe and their ilk, and the dark network of right wing money funding all this, from Musk to Theil and Koch just seems to come from a much worse place than any politics in recent times, but go back about 90 or so years...
The Tories were awful, did huge damage, but Farage, Lowe et al genuinely scare me.
All that is spot on... except...
No one would give a shit if their neighbour went to a different church or looked different if there were genuine prospects for everyone.
Fewer people might care... but there are absolutely people doing very well who still get upset if someone foreign looking/sounding moved into their close, or if the nice nurse giving them their flu jab wasn't white, or a car park is going to have a mosque built on it. Economic hard times are a great recruiter for the far right, but as you say, there is a proportion of the public that would support them come what may... and many are well to do privately educated middle class people... I've met many of them.
You're being dishonest there. They worry that the person moving onto their close will make the area like other areas full of foreigners ie poor and run down. They'll not take care of the appearance of their house and behave antisocially. They'd act exactly the same if it was going to be rented out to social housing tenants regardless of race. They don't care at all about the race of their nurse, just that they're competent and understand what they're saying. They also don't care what's being built on the car park, just that they will no longer be able to use it.
They worry that the person moving onto their close will make the area like other areas full of foreigners ie poor and run down.
That seems to be a rather simplistic view of "foreigners". Why do they make it poor and run down? Have you looked at Mayfair recently? Also the use of "close" tends to suggest you are looking at it from a Scottish viewpoint?
They worry that the person moving onto their close will make the area like other areas full of foreigners ie poor and run down.
That seems to be a rather simplistic view of "foreigners". Why do they make it poor and run down? Have you looked at Mayfair recently? Also the use of "close" tends to suggest you are looking at it from a Scottish viewpoint?
That's an exception. North of London majority immigrant areas tend to be poor as they initially moved into the cheapest housing. Moving north Bedford, Leicester and all the Northern mill towns/cities. There also appears to be a trend to keep the interiors of houses spotless but to not really care about the exterior. I work in Bradford so see the general disregard for littering etc. I just followed the previous usage. There's plenty of Closes in England, it's a Northern cul-de-sac.
Gribs
They worry that the person moving onto their close will make the area like other areas full of foreigners ie poor and run down. They'll not take care of the appearance of their house and behave antisocially. They'd act exactly the same if it was going to be rented out to social
They might be afraid of that but like many perceived fears how valid is it? Is it based upon reality or bias?
The house next door to me is owned by a family whose mum was born in the middle East I'm guessing from her appearance and accent, no, I'm not going to ruddy ask her. Her 2 sons were born here going by their accent.
They are a lovely family, spent a lot of time and money on their house since buying it a few years back and are considerate neighbours.
Now, 2 other neighbours in the road don't like them. One doesn't like them talking a, "foreign language amongst themselves" at BBQs in their own garden... The other doesn't like them because she saw one of them on a laptop in their car one evening, "so must be dealing drugs."
I know where they both work and frankly I don't think they need to deal drugs.
Their mum chatted to me down the road a few months back and we talked about the neighbour that didn't like them talking in another language in their own garden. She asked me directly why they don't like her family, is it because they don't like foreign people? She was genuinely saddened by the situation. I didn't have the heart to tell her what I know and pleaded ignorance.
However, her neighbours have told me the reason, it was dressed up politely but it's pure racism, no ifs, no buts.
To dislike a family because of their skin colour and the fact one of them has a foreign accent is just mindless bullshit to me. Utter madness.
Oh, I had a skip here a few months back. One family asked if they could pay me** to put a few items in the skip if there was room once I'd finished. Another family put stuff in, in the dark of night, twice, with not so much as a courtesy door knock and they knew I was still actively putting stuff in the bloody skip!
Want to guess which family was which?
Anyway... A person's nature and morality has bugger all to do with their skin colour or accent, it's all to do with the universally grey matter in their noggin.
** I didn't take it.
Currently working my way through this- Bloody Foreigners - Robert Winder.
Quote - 1906 Josiah Wedgewood MP (no, not that Wedgewood) "There is always a mob of entirely uneducated people who will hunt down foreigners, and there will always be people who will make use of the passions of the mob in order to get their own end politically."
They don't care at all about the race of their nurse, just that they're competent and understand what they're saying.
So why do brown and black nurses get a dog's abuse day in, day out? Are they all incompetent?
You do wonder how they can be so thick and so off the mark.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/reform-uk-climate-net-zero-flooding-b2988750.html
They might be afraid of that but like many perceived fears how valid is it? Is it based upon reality or bias?
It matters less how valid or real something is than how valid or real something feels.
It matters less how valid or real something is than how valid or real something feels.
Its important since that determines what the response is.
If I am shitting myself about a tiger eating me on my ride tomorrow then its either me being wrong or that one has escaped from Hertfordshire zoo.
In the former its either a problem with me personally, in which case I need psychological help, or with misinformation in which case the source of that misinformation needs fixing and the correct information being disseminated.
In the latter then it requires a rather enthusiastic response from the local authorities.
We dont want that enthusiastic response from the local authorities just cos I told them I thought a tiger might eat me tomorrow.
Glad to see up and down the country that good decent people have turned out in their droves to tell the fascists to **** off
Belfast, Glasgow, Brighton, Liverp....
Hold on, Brighton?
The fascists tried to march in Brighton? Know your demographics, they were outnumbered 10:1 apparently.
There's always some great placards on these marches but "I rejected Tommy on Grindr" is great.
There's always some great placards on these marches but "I rejected Tommy on Grindr" is great.
What a fantastic way to respond to the likes of Tommy, I'll take well aimed piss taking over the threats and violence the far right love any day. 👍😁
Also the use of "close" tends to suggest you are looking at it from a Scottish viewpoint?
Really? It’s a term used to describe plenty of small cul de sacs in my neck of the woods here in North Wiltshire, as far back as I can remember, thus pre dating me, so going on 80+ years, it would never occur to me to think of it as being Scottish. In fact, there’s one road called Long Close, which is quite a long road, but it only has one entrance/exit, about halfway along, which I think dates from the 50’s, or thereabouts, from the building boom post-war.
I used the word first... had no idea it wasn't used everywhere in the UK.
The stairwell for a tenement is sometimes referred to as a close, I think it might primarily be a Glasgow thing though.
Probably where the term "Like throwing a sausage up a close" comes from.
And that's different to a vennel.
Such as pennel's vennel, no longer, at GT
Anyone else noticing that their social media is being FLOODED, like waaaay more than normal, with Reform/restore/NF/RL bile and flat out bullshit?
Anyone else noticing that their social media is being FLOODED, like waaaay more than normal, with Reform/restore/NF/RL bile and flat out bullshit?
No, but I only use YouTube and Instagram and make a point of blocking any account that posts anything remotely connected to politics
They're obviously spending an absolute fortune on social media advertising. But then they've got a fortune to spend due to all their opaque and dodgy funding. Unfortunately, since they learnt it all on the Brexit campaign they're incredibly good at targeting their lies.
The only redeeming thing about all of it is that, as it's social media, you can comment on things. About 90% of the comments I've seen are calling them out for their bullshit and in the case of the likes of Honest Bob, just mercilessly taking the piss out of him
Anyone else noticing that their social media is being FLOODED, like waaaay more than normal, with Reform/restore/NF/RL bile and flat out bullshit?
Yep, got very busy on FB. It's interesting to see how much push back they get from non-believers, but clicks mean prizes
It's interesting to look at what their advertising actually is. The polling is showing that the support for Reform in makerfield is (somewhat unsurprisingly) almost exclusively male. Women are generally repulsed by them and their candidate who is, by his own admission, 'quite sexist'
So this morning we have the frankly ridiculous claim, from Cruella of all people, that Reform is now 'the party for working mothers'. I can't see anyone falling for this crap but it's an interesting approach.... making up any old shite on the hoof to try and combat individual polling imbalances
The details seem to be an end to the right to equal pay and the removal of protections for pregnant women introduced in 2010... the "positive" change seems to amount to a longer period to submit your unfair dismissal claims... so it's a reduction in rights but an extended period to claim if what's left of your rights haven't been properly taken into account by your employer.
plenty of women do suport Reform (my GBNews loving sister in law) they are there for the ethnic cleaninsing and 2 fingers to the metropolitain elite, policy detail is lost on them
a good read here about a former Tory who defected to Reform and then unsurprisingly (to sensible people) found it to be a bitterly divided personality cult full of racism and ego......
I started to read that Robbie Lammas article. I could only get as far as this bit before knowing that I should not give him any of my time:
I too shared a concern that the breadth of the Tory church was too broad and lacked the will to drive through the constitutional restoration and policies that are required to meet the challenges of today, such as leaving the ECHR, examining Judicial Review and unpicking the Equality Act.
As (unbelievably depressingly) the Rupert Lowe, full-fat-fascist lot are now picking up 7-8% in the polls in Makerfield, Honest Bob has just tried to outflank them on the right and released a video saying he'd like to bring back the death penalty for rape gangs.
Dear god! How's that Overton window looking at the moment?
It’s not really outflanking them, a referendum on the death penalty has been Restores position from day 1.
Dear god! How's that Overton window looking at the moment?
same thing is happening in Italy, the far right is being consumed by the even farther right, they arent ashamed to call themselves fascist either
https://bsky.app/profile/anthonyzach.be/post/3moilvgo5qc24
constantly pushing farther right will always lead to dissapointment, so their solution is to go in even harder, theres a pretty clear line from Brexit to where we are now- it promised everything and ended up delivering the opposite, whats mad is that people are still following the likes of farage, lowe, jenrick etc even after their brexit was a disaster
brexit was a disaster
Apparently, that's because we haven't had the Brexit we were promised...
I was reading a FB post about moving to Cyprus and that was one of the reasons given in the comments for it being more difficult than before Brexit...
Good to see a true patriot working for the benefit of this country!
worrying times
a reform victory (and rumours of a high turnout ate bouying their Spirits) would mean we are very likely to get a reform government, meanwhile Restore are apparently surging
both parties popularity are signs that the country is drifting into a dark place
Well pretty resounding win for Burnham
reform managed a small increase in their GE vote and Restore got nearly 7% which is impressive from nothing but nowhere near the numbers that some were claiming, looks like their ceiling will be pretty low.
It does look like Reform are very beatable especially in a constituency that voted heavily for leave and has very white, elderly, low education demographics - this is their Ideal seat. Doesn't help that once again Reform picked a terrible candidate and failed to do the very basic of background checks
I suspect Farage will remain in hiding , Lowe will continue to forment violence and taunt reform and Robert Kenyon will slink off to have a consolation **** over deepfake pictures of Carol Vorderman he get grok to make for him
i see Restore didn't even get as high as the BNP did in one of their better performing seats
low for lowe
He's definitely the real deal.
A solid rejection of the politics of hate by the majority.
I had always hoped / expected that Burnham would win. I believe that Reform / Restore are capitulating on voter apathey. I think that their supporters are bothered to vote, and that they are seeing gains due to a substantial number of non-voters who do not believe that their vote will achieve anything.
Capitulating or capitalising?
If you mean capitalising, I agree but also while the Reform vote is significant, it must also be seen in the context that it is only slightly up on what they got in the GE 2 years ago. Despite all that has happened since, Labour's failings, Trump's success, etc. Sure, Burnham is an exceptional case and will have got more support than AN Other Labour candidate as well.
This was a top target and if they don't win these sorts of seats their chances of being a serious GE contender have to be limited. They've won 1/5 by-elections since the GE, and while they might claim tactical voting boosted votes in target areas it is a legitimate tactic, saying that we don't want their politics and we'll do what it takes to defeat it.
I think they are almost at peak and (for once) thanks to our FPTP can be defeated widely despite getting considerable vote share. Because there are many many more of us than them, as Belfast, Glasgow, Liverpool, Brighton, etc., all showed again at the weekend.
I don't really know where Farage goes now - he can't really go more fascist than Lowe.
Upset to see reform gain so high a percentage, but probably seen now as the tories 2.0, and the old tories pretty much dead in the water.
Have we done Sarah Pochin's plea to the England football team to keep winning so women don't get battered by abusive partners yet?
Just when you think Reform can go any lower, out comes a bigger shovel.
