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Wow, so centrists/moderates are now basically extreme right Nazis?
Good strawman but it does kind of prove the point with the inability to comprehend a point and then to start ranting about being called a nazi. I guess you havent been paying attention to recent history and how the trumpists love that argument.
Next step is for you to shave your hair and get a swastika tattoo whilst claiming it was forced on you.
Wow, so centrists/moderates are now basically extreme right Nazis?
Good strawman but it does kind of prove the point with the inability to comprehend a point and then to start ranting about being called a nazi. I guess you havent been paying attention to recent history and how the trumpists love that argument.
Next step is for you to shave your hair and get a swastika tattoo whilst claiming it was forced on you.
I'm a lib dem voter who voted labor in the last GE to keep the nazis out, for the record.
I won't make the mistake of voting labour a second time, it will be lib dem, with an outside chance of green, but the greeens are pretty nuts, to be fair, a one trick pony.
Sigh.
I'll review the manifestos in due course, of course, but in order to be able to sleep at night, my vote is pretty much locked in to lib dem, I'm done with tactical voting.
I think we really need a hung parliment and a proper cross party coalition, no shady deals, an actual representative coalition.
Farrage has no message other than 'it's every one elses fault!'
What do you do when the system is broken....
It’s the gotcha, the same thing that got Starmer in will get Farage in.
(Not Tory and now not Tory or Labour.)
What annoys me is that both will have been sat there waiting for it to drop in their laps without any need to work hard on getting there.
If you cant comprehend why exactly a labour government promising a change from a corrupt and incompetent tory government but then proving incompetent and corrupt isnt a problem then there is no hope for you.
Clam down. So to your mind, a free pair of specs is a threat to democracy and worth pages of opprobrium heaped upon your favourite target, but the single largest personal donation to a Ltd Co cos-playing as a political party isn't worth any discussion at all on a thread devoted to same... And you think that somehow this makes me a moron?
Right.
So to your mind, a free pair of specs is a threat to democracy
In my mind the Labour sleeze scandal after Sir Keir Starmer promised honesty and integrity, following years of dodgy Tory governments, was an important contributory factor in the spectacular collapse of support for Labour as it became harder to counter the claim "all politicians are the same".
As can be expected Nigel Farage is presenting himself as the non-establishment figure to a disillusioned electorate and Sir Keir Starmer's sleeze scandal undoubtedly helped him.
You might want to dismiss it as a just a pair of specs but it was roundly commend by some in the Labour Party and is considered important enough to warrant its own Wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Labour_Party_freebies_controversy
The controversy drew criticism from both opposition politicians and politicians from the governing Labour Party, with critics accusing Starmer's government of hypocrisy for accepting the gifts while pursuing economic austerity and cuts to welfare, with Labour MP Rosie Duffield resigning from the party in protest.
Remember we are talking about a "Labour" government,. not a Tory government. Supposedly.
but the greeens are pretty nuts, to be fair, a one trick pony.
Strange conclusion to come to. What are they saying that is nuts and what is their one trick?
In that case, I guess you you’ll be perfectly happy with your employer saying, when the subject of your annual salary review comes up, that they feel you’re more than adequately paid, and in the interest of maintaining the company profitability, you won’t be getting any further raises.
Well, the public sector has had 15 years of that...
And I see that the trenches have been dug and tantrums being thrown.
Interesting background to the bloke who donated £9million to Farage…
Interesting spat with my wife last night (we don't often discuss these things...) but her and her family are still in a thrall to GB News which they treat as gospel and us showing footage of apparently 'thousands' of fit young illegal immigrants coming across in boats every day.
I don't really know how to counter this, are there any trustworthy, non-partisan facts out there?
What do you do when the system is broken....
The done thing seems to be to vote for corrupt establishment millionaires
But then they'll just say you can't trust that info because it's from the Government.
I don't really know how to counter this, are there any trustworthy, non-partisan facts out there?
I don't think it matters. If they are stupid enough to go along with GB News then best thing to do is distance yourself from them.
Oh wow, actually they might point out the 737 people who came across on the 13th and say that proves it. Clearly doesn't tell the whole story but might explain the footage they saw.
Have downloaded the bigger data series but can't view on phone, will look later.
There is a lot of psychology on the people who believe in GBNews.
There are a few tips here -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-55350794
But then they'll just say you can't trust that info because it's from the Government.
I have a friend who refuses to believe the ONS aren't all complete liars 🙄
You might want to dismiss it as a just a pair of specs but it was roundly commend by some in the Labour Party and is considered important enough to warrant its own Wikipedia page
thats an odd metric for 'importance'
I'm not sure you can do much about your wife's amily but I'd sit down with her and watch something like The Old Oak which is an excellent Ken Loach film about Syrian refugees. You could also look up p Hassan Akkad, there's an interview with James O'Brien, for an example of why young men come over here but there are other examples.
Another thing I heard about today is the drama Years and Years which features Emma Thomson as a Nigel Farage type populist politician.
There is a lot of psychology on the people who believe in GBNews.
There are a few tips here -
I found the most effective technique is to just out-conspiracy them. For example, if they claim the moon landings were faked, then you need to go one step above and argue that the moon doesn't exist at all.
I've only watched Years and Years very recently. It's not as simple as being about Farage in particular, but it is, in my opinion, an absolute much watch. It really could have been made today, it chimes so well with so many very current concerns. Science Fiction at its best.
Have downloaded the bigger data series but can't view on phone, will look later.
From the 14th November through to last saturday there was a grand total of zero crossings, I assume due to the weather conditions. This then gives a large spike in boats as soon as things improve.
On a Farage note he is sulking again during PMQs and sitting in the gallery vs the chamber for some reason or other.
Interesting spat with my wife last night (we don't often discuss these things...) but her and her family are still in a thrall to GB News which they treat as gospel and us showing footage of apparently 'thousands' of fit young illegal immigrants coming across in boats every day.
I don't really know how to counter this, are there any trustworthy, non-partisan facts out there?
Tell her if we refuse access to fit young immigrants who can work in this country then in 10 years time we will not have a sufficient working population (due to low birth rates) paying taxes and working to keep her parents alive in their old age so the only option will be to wheel them round the back of the care home and leave them to rot
Too much like hard work. Just explain that you'll take their opinions seriously when they stand up to analysis.
Which they don't.
On a Farage note he is sulking again during PMQs and sitting in the gallery vs the chamber for some reason or other.
Apparently its some form of protest because he doesn't get to ask Starmer any questions at PMQ's. The arrogant, self-important twonk objects to the same rules applying to him as all the other MPs. He thinks it should be him and not Kemi Badanoch at the despatch box. So, yeah... he's sulking like the oversized toddler he is
Interesting spat with my wife last night (we don't often discuss these things...) but her and her family are still in a thrall to GB News which they treat as gospel and us showing footage of apparently 'thousands' of fit young illegal immigrants coming across in boats every day.
I don't really know how to counter this, are there any trustworthy, non-partisan facts out there?
Tell her if we refuse access to fit young immigrants who can work in this country then in 10 years time we will not have a sufficient working population (due to low birth rates) paying taxes and working to keep her parents alive
1) That's great in theory - but the work, education and linguistic profile of asylum seekers and refugees is much lower from those of immigrants selected on the basis that they're needed in the economy (and that includesthe Boriswave of low skill immigrants, so it's not a high bar to begin with). There are obvious and legitimate reasons for that - but the point is that it's not as neat as saying "brilliant, asylum seekers are going to solve the UK's skills and labour gaps".
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migration-to-the-uk-asylum/
2) it's not a conspiracy theory that thousands of asylum seekers are arriving by small boats - although it's not anywhere close to thousands every day, even if some days might see big spikes.
since 2021 there have been between 29,000 and 46,000 small boat arrivals each year, with the highest number of arrivals in 2022 (45,774). Whilst small boat arrivals decreased in 2023, small boat arrivals in the year ending September 2025 (45,659) were 53% more than in the year ending September 2024 and were close to the peak number in 2022.
Small boat arrivers are 40% of all asylum seekers.
71% of irregular arrivers (which includes a few thousand air and ferry arrivers in additional to small boat passengers) are adult males. There are some fairly obviously and legitimate reasons why asylum seekers are going to be predominantly male.
3) Yogurt knitters (including me) have to shake off the collective dismissal of small boat arrivals as being insignificant numerically or financially, or just a distraction exaggerated by racists, or simply a conspiracy theory. It's real, it's a ****load of people every year, and it's 40% of £5.5 billion annually the government pays to (mis-)manage it.
https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/migration-to-the-uk-asylum/
The numbers arriving on small boats is very small and the vast majority are allowed to stay. The problem is the length of time it takes to process them. No doubt the government is also paying way over the odds for sub standard hotel accomodation that otherwise would probably be shut down.
The numbers arriving on small boats is very small
45,000 people (y/e Sep 2025) is a small amount of people to be arriving in the country on unsafe rubber dinghies crossing one of the world's busiest shipping lanes?
What would you consider a big number?
The problem is the length of time it takes to process them.
Have you ever been involved in submitting or review a claim for asylum?
How do you think the government could speed up processing?
45,000 people (y/e Sep 2025) is a small amount of people to be arriving in the country on unsafe rubber dinghies crossing one of the world's busiest shipping lanes?
What would you consider a big number?
So about 10% of net migration then (2024 figure from the Migration Observatory). The other 90% is a big number.
Yes - when you compare it to a very big number, 45,000 people seems small. The same logic also applies to the £5.5 billion spent per annum - it's much less than is spent on pensions, so what's the problem? The amount of money Michelle Mone stole was very little compared to total COVID costs...the number of people at Johnson's No 10 parties was nothing compared to what was happening in pubs everywhere...a few exec tickets for rhe football given to Starmer is nothing compared to political donations to Reform...
This is exactly the hand-wavey, margin of error, deny-and-dismiss attitude I was speaking about. It's a logical fallacy.
Maybe we could employ more people to do the processing? The quicker you allow asylum seekers to get jobs the sooner they can start paying taxes and get out of the hotels, saving more money. Let's not pretend Reform are concerned for the safety of the people in the boats and they're not bothered about the 4.3 million children in poverty either.
The numbers arriving on boats are what they are because we don’t have a land border to the East/South and we’ve put so much in place to effectively close all other routes in for asylum seekers. Stop people arriving by air, tunnel or ferry… what does that leave?
That and we cancelled lots of arrangements with European countries, that asylums seekers have to pass through, when we left the EU.
How many asylum seekers arrived by small boat 10 years ago?
”We” created this small boat situation, with our increased “controls”, and our decision not to cooperate fully with other countries.
And look who’s ready to make then most political capital out of it…
Maybe we could employ more people to do the processing? The quicker you allow asylum seekers to get jobs the sooner they can start paying taxes and get out of the hotels, saving more money. Let's not pretend Reform are concerned for the safety of the people in the boats and they're not bothered about the 4.3 million children in poverty either.
That's always been my position, broadly speaking. Keeping people in limbo just costs the public purse and annoys people, granted for different reasons, but get them bloody processed quickly, and they either get booted out or they can start working and paying tax.
I know thats kind of a simplistic way of loking at it, but fundamentally keeping them housed in crappy accomodation and in limbo helps no one.. they get depressed and/or start working in the black market, the gammons rage, and the public as a whole pays for the whole fiasco.
Governments don't want/need to solve the small boat problem because it distracts from all their other policy failures.
They'd sooner join Farage with the fake outrage than remove the one thing that sustains him and the far right.
How do you think the government could speed up processing?
Quite easily I would imagine. Give me a week to review it in person and I will speed it up.
The process is here --> https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum and the first thing to do is make quicker decisions on eligibility and have no comeback from it, what is decided is decided.
However, the problem is clearly getting the person back to the country they have fled. That is a much harder thing to fix and takes a lot of work and deals with the countries involved which would need to start with the top ten.
make quicker decisions on eligibility and have no comeback from it,
Not a believer in due process and the right to impartial decison-making then?
Not a believer in due process and the right to impartial decison-making then?
Nope. They are not being tried in court, they have just come half way across the world to somewhere they fancy living. If incorrect decisions are made it is not a big deal. Just get on with making them so people are not in hotels for 18 months.
How do you think the government could speed up processing?
Quite easily I would imagine. Give me a week to review it in person and I will speed it up.
This is the Dunning-Kruger phenomenon in full effect. "I would imagine" doing a lot of heavy lifting.
Applicant is a 33 year old Afghan Hazara man. He is applying for asylum based on well-founded fear of persecution based on political views (formerly worked as a drver for US corporation contracted by US military, allowed daughters to be educated) and religious views (Hazara Shia). Says he and his family have already been robbed and assaulted by Taliban groups in his town. Says he was unable to claim asylum in ****stan or the Netherlands, through which he transited en route to the UK.
Please verify all information and give me a written, reasoned decision by next Thursday 9am. Should be quite easy, I imagine. "Just get on with it".
If incorrect decisions are made it is not a big deal.
No big deal to give an ineligible person a lifetime of residence and social security in the UK? No big deal to deport an eligible person back to the government that is putting them in reasonable fear of their life?
They are not being tried in court, they have just come half way across the world to somewhere they fancy living.
> I don't have the words <
Just get on with making them so people are not in hotels for 18 months.
Absolutely. Which needs resources and people, not snap decisions and the removal of appeal processes.
Please verify all information and give me a written, reasoned decision by next Thursday 9am. Should be quite easy, I imagine. "Just get on with it".
Where did I say I will reduce it from 18 months to 1 week? I have spent 30 years simplifying processes, most people tend to overthink and overcomplicate things in all aspects of their lives.
Says he was unable to claim asylum in ****stan or the Netherlands, through which he transited en route to the UK.
Why not?
Says he was unable to claim asylum in ****stan or the Netherlands, through which he transited en route to the UK.
Why not?
That's for you to determine the facts about, then apply the law and HMG policy in a written, lawful decision that can survive administrative and judicial review. Hurry up!
Not when I change the process it won't be. They need to prove why they were unable to claim and if they can't then I don't believe they tried to claim and off they go. Remember, they were safely out of the country they are fleeing from at this point so could have taken the time in ****stan or the Netherlands to get their claim submitted.
See how easy it is.
See how easy it is.
You have to get here to claim asylum, you can't do so from countries on your route here. That's not down to the asylum seeker, it's how the system has been made to "work" by the UK government.
Quick question:
What would make you leave your home, culture, family, friends, property and use a small boat to cross the channel? A free iPad? Doubt it.