Absolute rubbish as has been comprehensivly proven. Those with least opportunity do better in a comprehensive system. Absolute fact of no dispute
I dispute it - see my story above. Oh, and your comprehensive education should have taught you there's another 'e' in [i]comprehensivly[/i][sic] 😉
So I said 'usually' and you quote the exceptions as a counter argument.
Think about it.......
Yes but there's no top limit to what the rich feel they need/want, and it doesn't make them happier.
The bigger the divide, the less people can relate to each other, and it becomes increasingly "them-us". It's just not healthy I reckon.
London is most unequal city in the developed world, with the richest tenth of the population amassing 273 times the wealth owned by the bottom tenth – which creates a "means chasm" not seen since the days of a "slave owning society", according to a new book.
In Injustice: Why Social Inequality Persists published by Policy Press, Danny Dorling, a professor of human geography at Sheffield University and an expert on social disparity, paints a bleak picture of an extremely unjust Britain where differences in wealth have led to a profoundly divided society.He says the government's latest figures show that in the capital the top 10% of society had on average a wealth of £933,563 compared to the meagre £3,420 of the poorest 10% – a wealth multiple of 273.
And that's even after 13 years of 'Labour'
Yes but there's no top limit to what the rich feel they need/want, and it doesn't make them happier.
That's why I said rich in money terms. Not the same thing as rich/happy.
And I don't get this idea of monetary inequality being the measure of injiustice. Seems to me that London contains some of the most stratospherically rich people in the world, so of course the equality gap is going to be big.
The wealth inequality does not exist in many other countries to the same extent - even rabidly capitalist countries such as the USA and Japan.
The wealth inequality does not exist in many other countries to the same extent - even rabidly capitalist countries such as the USA and Japan.
TJ, I think you've got it wrong about inequality in the US. There's far more polarisation there BUT the difference is that the poor actually think that they have a chance of joining the rich and are more prepared to accept their lot. (not that that is a good thing of course)
Those with least opportunity do better in a comprehensive system. Absolute fact of no dispute
Well I didn't do better, in fact I've spent the rest of my life playing catch up, so I dispute it.
You've had at least two personal examples on this thread, but you can just ignore those if it helps to give you an "Absolute fact of no dispute" 🙄
Tandem Jeremy - median public sector salaries are £2K higher than median private sector salaries at c£27K/24.5K.
If we accept that the value of the non contributory public sector schemes is c35% (and yes, some schemes aren't non contributory) then that translates to a non funded contribution by the tax payer for each median salary worker of c£9,400 a year.
For someone in the private sector on high rate tax to receive the same contribution to their pension as a pension tax credit, they would need to make payments of £22K a year. Given the median salary for the private sector is only £24.5K and thus not even on the higher rate of tax, the only logical conclusion is that public sector workers receive dissproporionately more benefits than their private sector peers.
Socialist countries like Norway? Netherlands? Germany? Redistribution is certainly possible and these countries do it well.
Interested in this. Are there no poor people in germany then? or are they less poor than our poor? I understood that they are capitalist but with good social policies?
It's interesting to find that some americans class the UK as socialist.
Some Americans class the UK as Communist!
Then again, these types of Americans are also convinced President Obama is an Islamic/Socialist plot against the US & that 'evilution' a plot to destroy the Christian Faith so i don't really put much store in their views...
Fair point. The US do seem to have more than their fair share of nutters.
It's interesting to find that some americans class the UK as socialist.
American news (in particular, Fox) is literally unhinged. That's why they think that. Any policy which wouldn't be classed as rather right wing here is considered to be socialist or communism in the US.
Farmer John loads of basic errors in that.
Firstly public sector pensions are contributed to - you forgot to allow for that - I pay 9% from slaery and the NHS puts some in - I forget how much.
Secondly for jobs of equal skills / qualifications private sector pay is significantly higher
Thirdly you forget that the poorest of the privaste sector don't have pensions so you median figures are misleading.
Have a read of the link I put to the TUC site for the couter to the right wing propaganda you have swallowed without question.
The bottom line is public sector pensions are affordable and private sector companies get away with poor provision. Its not public sector pensions are unaffordablely good - its that private sector ones are poor - because in main of the greed of the shareholders and the pension holidays. Providing decent pensions hits at profits
I accept the TUC link is biased - but its worth a read all the same
[i]It's interesting to find that some americans class the UK as socialist.
American news (in particular, Fox) is literally unhinged. That's why they think that. Any policy which wouldn't be classed as rather right wing here is considered to be socialist or communism in the US[/i]
when i saw the footage of adam boulton going off on alistair campbell i was immediately reminded of glenn beck on fox news
i do worry that murdoch wants to bring that kind of trash tv here, the fact hes in bed with cameron is very very worrying
an awful lot of people watch fox news and not just for sh!ts and giggles!
Maybe Boulton was just fed up at being fed bullshit? (because he was being fed bullshit)
I'm not sure Campbell was bullshitting he was just playing a very straight bat and was explaining the situation. Campbell is obviosuly an abnoxious **** but he was just being saying it like it is. ie its hard for libs and tories to agree and so Brown has to stay if they cannot agree.
[i]Maybe Boulton was just fed up at being fed bullshit? (because he was being fed bullshit) [/i]
really? i saw campbell being more frank and honest than hes ever been
what did he say that was bullshit?
while boulton ranted like a child because he thought nulabour had scuppered camerons chances at being pm,
i had no idea you were a fan of fox/sky news backhander, but it does explain a lot of your views
Campbell returned to previous form quite spectacularly on Newsnight, however...
i had no idea you were a fan of fox/sky news backhander, but it does explain a lot of your views
What views are they? The views which don't agree with yours? Because many of mine don't and never will unless I volunteer for a full frontal lobotomy.
Get back to socialist worker.
That post could only have been improved if you'd called him a trot.
What views are they? The views which don't agree with yours?
Yeah the views that you clearly get from rabid right wing tabloid media.
Here's something to think about.
Think of anyone in public life that you consider a really loathsome person.
Are they basically right wing or left wing?
I'm not saying all right wing people are loathsome BTW, but I just can't think of anyone who I consider to be really horrible who isn't right wing.
For example - Jeremy Clarkson.
I'm not talking about politicians BTW.
Janet-Street Porter, isn't she an Guardian / Observer editor? She's pretty loathsome...
Ah, the exception that proves the rule!
But I raise you, Rupert Murdoch!
I'm not saying all right wing people are loathsome BTW, but I just can't think of anyone who I consider to be really horrible who isn't right wing.
Toynbee makes my teeth itch. Huge hypocrite.
Why tron?
Banging on about comps being perfectly good for everyone else and then sending her kids to private school. Much like most of the left wing establishment in this country.
I like this quote from policestate.co.uk
"The Lib Dems could be the caring heart implanted inside the Conservatives to ensure that any reconfiguration of the nation's economy is done in the best way possible."
so what do people think of cleggs bargaining skills
inheritance tax break is good to see gone
NI increase for employees is good (well not good bu necessary) but not for employers (which sucks imho)
immigration amnesty, was always a bit hairbrained but it would be nice to see a pragmatic approach to immigration
europe stuff is just waffle, but will we help the greek bailout? personally i think we should eurozone is outr biggest trading partner and the weaker they are the worse it is for us in recovery
I like to see the coalition as a nice bloke going for a walk with pitbull, saying, 'no Tory, you can't bite that, put the NHS down.... let's go and play with the banks'
Nice quote that Buzz.
Kimbers - I want to see the full thing before I decide but I think he has been poor. Should have got more - after all the tories were desparate - he got a lot t looks like but not as much as he could have done.
How solid is the promise on PR for the commons? How are they going to reconcile the Lib Dems and the tory eurosceptic right that Cmearon is beholden to?
for the euro thing is interesting
im sure i remember an interview with vince cable a few years ago saying we shouldnt join the euro so maybe hes a closet europhobe?
as the eurozone is in such a state at the moment i think it will put off talk of further integration for a while, unless the hardcore torries want to pull out of lisbon or something crazy it may keep the coalition going for long enough
PR hmmm well there will be a referendum and there are all kinds of ways the torys could make that less likely
Raising the tax threshold is fantastic.
Apart from the obvious, that some people on the lowest wages will drop out of tax and have more money it will go a long way towards simplifying our tax system. When you think about all the shenanigans with tax credits etc that make the poor jump through hoops and create expensive bureaucracy/administration in the tax system it has got to make sense to simply drop some of the poorest people out of tax.
AND, of course, if the overall tax take is to remain the same, or rise, it might mean that the rich have to pay more, which I'm also in favour of.
Who'd have thought it - Tories back redistributive tax policy.
The BBC's Laura Kuenssberg says that the Conservatives have given the Lib Dems proportional representation ... in the House of Lords.
Hmmm - that's a bit of a sellout if it's true.
Raising the tax threshold would indeed be great.
I am delighted with the tax threshold policy. It further encourages people into work who might otherwise take benefits, which helps people, business and reduces welfare costs. It financially benefits everyone, but especially those in low paid jobs. It simplifies taxation and tax credits making it more transparent and inexpensive to administrate. But it was meant to be paid for by scrapping Trident, so we shall see.
europe stuff is just waffle, but will we help the greek bailout? personally i think we should eurozone is outr biggest trading partner and the weaker they are the worse it is for us in recovery
As I said previously, why on earth should we contribute when it's not directly our problem - we're not in the Euro? Of course if it hits the IMF then we'll pay our part, but it certainly shouldn't get that far. Meanwhile as beneficial as it is for us for the eurozone not to go tits up, they have enough money themselves to fix this without us, and there are far better things for us to spend the money on within the UK (ie making sure Greece doesn't happen here!)
Looking at what they've announced about the compromises in policies I'm feeling very positive about this coalition. It seems that bot sides have dropped pretty much all their dodgy major policies, whilst keeping the better ones IMHO. The tax threshold thing should even help me personally 😀
Yeah the views that you clearly get from rabid right wing tabloid media.
YEAH!
Except I don't read any tabloids; right, left or centre rabid or otherwise.
immigration amnesty, was always a bit hairbrained but it would be nice to see a pragmatic approach to immigration
except that Customes and IR have an unofficial 14 year amnesty anyway....
