[Closed] NHS Care records Service - anyone confident....?

On the one hand, I'm not keen on the database state.

On the other hand, it makes sense to have an electronic medical record. Your details are recorded on computer each time you go to the hospital or visit your GP anyway.

I will be opting out.

I won't be opting out. The only stuff my GP has on me is my age and sex.

Not really bothered - it doesn't register on my 'give a f*k' meter too highly

"a) The government start making the information commercially available to third parties"

Does this currently happen with my (and your) information? If so can you tell me what kind of information?

Thanks

It is an interesting point to ponder.
I initially thought it a brill idea, so that if i do get ill or have an accident someone can find out the basics about me.

BUT...... my wife reminded me of our Bro'-in-law who died from a brain tumour this time last year. It was her elder sister's husband. Her eldest sister is a Midwife, working in the same hospital and accessed bro's notes. She knew his tumour had returned big time before his wife did. My wife then proposed a similar scenario where if your boss's wife/friend/partner worked in NHS then she could check for him to see if you really were off sick, had a problem, or simply swinging it. Totally pie in the sky, but......!!!
The point she made well is that it is ok if the people treating you get the info but who else can also access it, and for what purpose?
I think i'll make a phone call before signing it, and double check who gets access to my private records.
yours a little paranoid
Q

I think that every government database has proved that the answer to 'who would have access?' is 'pretty much anyone with the time/inclination/money'

They always leek like a sieve. So anything you say to a doctor is confidential, his just means that once you walk out of the surgery that information will be anything but! Its a scary prospect

"a) The government start making the information commercially available to third parties"

Does this currently happen with my (and your) information? If so can you tell me what kind of information?

Uh, the DVLA for one? Your name, address etc.

I've opted out. I have no allergies and my blood type is on my donor card which I invariably have with me. If I don't have it with me, it means I don't have my wallet either so the database is useless anyway.

Her eldest sister is a Midwife, working in the same hospital and accessed bro's notes.

I think she would be in deep doodoo if that was the subject of a complaint, especially since Caldicott is rammed down the neck of every NHS employee all the time.

I will seriously consider opting out but could that not also be misconstrued that you probably have something to hide ? You can't win.

I work for the NHS in medical records department, sent my opt out form off today.

I honestly don't care.

[i]Her eldest sister is a Midwife, working in the same hospital and accessed bro's notes[/i]

Woody has it right, very unprofessional and also very wrong. She can loose her job and registration for that.

TandemJeremy - Member
I will be opting out.

I've already opted out on account of the fact that [i][b]I live in Scotland[/b][/i].

So Drac... do you reckon that out of the hundreds of thousands of people who are now eligible to have a root through your medical records, none of them would be unprofessional enough to hand over those records to an interested party (insurance company, potential employer) for a quick back-hander?

No, me neither... I'm sure all the information is absolutely water-tight. As all state databases have proved to be

I'm reluctant to give out my phone number or email addy let alone medical history.

Ian Munro are you really sure that's [i]all[/i] your GP has on you..
You will be linked to all the records of every one else in your household..
phone num, address, med history from birth, bio stats, meds, allergies, referrals, risky habits etc etc.

Even if your not worried about your current record, what about your future one?

What happens if you pop into the virgin store clinic, boots, netcare, poly clinic etc, are they going to start your blood pressure treatment and who's responsible for monitoring it, virgin or your GP.
I'm not sure that the breaking of continuity that might result is going to be good.

Anyway as long as we all stick to the treadmill of centralising/decentralising the time will pass quicker.

is that right Druidh? i was worried about how to opt out cos I haven't been registered with a GP for a few years and am nowhere near the last one. Scotlands brilliant isn't i.t

Druidh - are you sure? I thught they were creating the emergency care summary on an opt out basis but the full record is not yet decided

http://www.hris.org.uk/index.aspx?o=1027

Her eldest sister is a Midwife, working in the same hospital and accessed bro's notes

so that happened with the existing systems, yes?

With new system every access to the notes creates an audit trail, so a routine inspection or even automated systems could then flag that up and see her out of a job for inappropriately accessing them.

personally I think a centralised nationwide medical records system is a very very good thing, in principal. And it is frankly bonkers we don't have one already. Sadly what I've read suggests the actual implementation of this one is typically rubbish.

TJ - this thread is about the NHS CRS, which is [i]not[/i] being implemented outside England at this time. Therefore, I'm already opted out of it.

You are correct to mention the more limited ECS which is implemented in Scotland, but it's really a different issue on account of its much reduced scope.

It would be enlightening to this debate (though probably impractical) to hear some figures on:

- number of treatments that would have been more successful if a full detailed history had been available to the doctor.

- number of incidents caused by interactions with existing drugs that the patient didn't mention they were on.

- numbers of hour wasted by doctors and nurses trying to chase down patient notes from GPs and other hospitals.

- repeat procedures that could be avoided if detailed notes were available.

- frequency of notes being lost completely in the current system.

Understood Druidh - I have not been following this debate closely

Given that they have managed to get the contents of my electronic record incorrect already (wrong name, sex AND old NHS number...) it doesn't hold up much hope for there being much benefit, anyway. It seems they tools cut of the local databases quite a long while ago and have not thought to do any sort of updates in the meantime.

Sorting it out has shown that there are already several electronic record systems; even multiple ones within the same Trust, so any kind of data leakage is already a threat. Trouble is the leak might be wrong.,,

Dont think it realy matters being I have not been to
my GP for 5 years and they sent me a letter last
week requesting if I was still alive or if there was
a new occupier at my address 🙄

I don't have anything to hide... and I don't trust the government anymore than I would a rattlesnake already... and as far as I am concerned my medical records have been on a database for at least a decade already anyway..
so naaaaaaaahhhh... pfffffffffft. there's more important things to be self-important about

do you reckon that out of the hundreds of thousands of people who are now eligible to have a root through your medical records, none of them would be unprofessional enough to hand over those records to an interested party (insurance company, potential employer) for a quick back-hander?

I think this is a bit of a red herring.

How exactly would the logistics work in this "threat"?
An NHS employee approaches an insurance company with an offer of medical details. The company decide that, despite it being illegal and a huge risk to them, it is worth paying this shadowy figure on the off chance that something they can reveal saves more money than they want.

How many records can DrDeepThroat then reveal? Every access to the records will be logged and accessing records of any patient that is not under his care may draw attention in an audit, losing his job and exposing the insurance company.

So let's say he can reveal 100 records, spread over a period of a year to be safe. How many thousands of such naughty people would need to approach the insurance company before they could syphon off records on all their customers?

Finally, if this was worth the risk to insurers and it was that easy to find such unscrupulous people then why isn't it happening already with your existing GP and hospital records?

Can't personally see why you would want to opt out. It will make transition of care between services so much easier, and it's not going to make a whole lot of difference to you! (Don't get it why some people are so ANTI the whole cumplulsory I.D. card idea. Personally I think they are a great idea)

Back to medical records though: Currently I'm completing an audit within a hospital....it would be a hell of a lot easier if all records were electronic and I didnt have to root through medical records to find them, or chase secretaries/surgeons for patients notes.

[i]So Drac... do you reckon that out of the hundreds of thousands of people who are now eligible to have a root through your medical records, none of them would be unprofessional enough to hand over those records to an interested party (insurance company, potential employer) for a quick back-hander?[/i]

So binners dot dot dot do you think opting out would stop these super sleuths from doing that.

Don't get it why some people are so ANTI the whole cumplulsory I.D. card idea

maybe its something to do with the fact that its a monumental waste of vast sums of taxpayers money to serve no useful purpose that anyone can discern.

A bit like the NHS database. They're all just huge white elephants

I can see why some people could argue that commplsory ID cards would be a wast of tax payers money, but definitely NOT a NHS database. Going to take a while to iron out any problems that arise, but will make things so much easier/better in the future.

Binners, its clear from your original post that you havent looked at any of the facts around NHS CRS anyway. The NHS CRS will be much more secure and much better audited than paper records are today.

domino - Member
Binners, its clear from your original post that you havent looked at any of the facts around NHS CRS anyway. The NHS CRS will be much more secure and much better audited than paper records are today.

LOL! It will be(is already) a mess and leak like a bucket with more holes than a bucket full of holes.

TJ is right Opt out.

You do realise that opting out just leaves you in the current system, with notes in multiple different databases and filing cabinets etc with less security than the new system will offer?

Having decent interfacing between clinical systems makes far more sense than trying to build single instance solutions. Its too late for that now and the millions have been spent on something that barely exists in terms of a CRS.

It will all change again soon if the government changes to the Conservatives - they have expressed an interest in working with Microsoft and Google to manage patient data.

Why isn't TJ up in arms about this system being imposed on the English?

porterclough - Member
Why isn't TJ up in arms about this system being imposed on the English?

To be fair, it's not being imposed on "the English", it's being imposed on people of all nationalities who get their health care in England, and not on any English who get their health care in Scotland, Wales, Ireland or any of the other 200+ countries in the world.

Why would I be poterclough?

They are two seperate databases, one with your personal details on and one with your medical details on. Only certain individuals will have access to both i.e your gp. I am personally not that bothered as it means less hassle if I get ill away from home.