molgrips
EDIT Unless you mean that driving the Intel machine harder makes it hotter – which is true (but perhaps not in all cases), however no laptop should be running hot when browsing the web, that’s usually caused by rogue software.
yes, that's what I mean (but my gut feel is the i7 is also using more power at idle). It's not a software thing.
The posts from Jamze about the 12th gen i7 and the earlier linked article about the 13th gen are encouraging.
Maybe 'complacency' is overstating it, I just feel like intel need a kick up the arse every now and then, be it from apple (m1) or AMD (k5, k6, Opteron & Ryzen spring to mind!)
My HP z-book i9 runs 50w at idle and has a battery life of about an hour or so. It needs a 150W charger to charge the battery because standard usb-c 80W chargers don’t give enough power. The fan could as well be a hair dryer. The case has warped due to the heat. I don’t recommend!
We’ll see how the M1 Pro runs for similar duties, although I know that office is not as well integrated. Going somewhere (by which I mean a meeting room at work) without the half kilo charger would be nice.
At home I have a 2012 Unibody MBP i7 that runs fine. Battery life is ok, but it is a heavy beast for the lap. Doesn’t get too hot. I bought it used for Son1 to run some unix code a few years ago. I like it.
these’ll run windows, right ?
Yes, sort of. I have Parallels on my Apple M1 which runs Windows (10, then 11). All so I could continue to use AppleWorks, a 1990s Apple programme (ClarisWorks) which no longer works on Macs… circular economy?
(but my gut feel is the i7 is also using more power at idle). It’s not a software thing.
Well it is, largely because even when you aren't doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things. And that can vary.
Maybe ‘complacency’ is overstating it, I just feel like intel need a kick up the arse every now and then, be it from apple (m1) or AMD (k5, k6, Opteron & Ryzen spring to mind!)
I'm sure they have developments planned into the future and release them when they're needed, rather than all at once. They probably just got the planning wrong, possibly because Apple kept it secret.
true, we haven’t even touched on what a bloated inefficient bag of crap Windows is yet 😂because even when you aren’t doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things.
Tell me you know bugger all about computers without telling me you know bugger all about computers...
its been a gamechanger for me, running ML models, video / photo editing (inc some very punchy AI driven processing), 3d rendering, stuff that took minutes now takes seconds, stuff that took hours now takes minutes. Battery lasts all day when previously a resource intensive task would rinse 10-15% in minutes. And it doesnt heat up or spin fans ever. I'm lucky enough to get a new mac through work every year and this is the best upgrade in > 10 years.
Keyboard still sucks.
Oh and yeah, Docker is still a dog, but I understand that's due to some OSX funadmentals that isn't going to change ever. I've given up, if I need to spin up a system with more than 3-4 containers ill just do that in a linux VM in t'cloud.
TBH I’m missing the old 27inch iMac configuration.
I’m hanging out on a purchase as I’d like the new monitor and a studio, I suppose the only downer is the whole unified memory thang stops you adding extra memory.
I’ll have to dig deeper into the docker issue as our company is heavily into it (dev laptop spec 64gb memory)
Is there any reason to get the 2022 M2 MacBook Air, over the 2020 M1? Price difference is a couple hundred quid. Usage is largely admin, some video conferencing etc.
I prefer the shape of the M1 Macbook Air, the tapered edges make it feel smaller. But the differences are better screen, high def camera (for video conferences) and slightly faster. Oh and full size function keys and magsafe 3 rather than USB-C only charging. The Space Grey M1 had £100 off recently, so £300 cheaper. They pop up on the Apple refurb site too with £150 off list price.
I think they'll go back to the slimmer tapered MBA eventually. Fells retrograde to me.
molgrips
Well it is, largely because even when you aren’t doing anything on your laptop the OS is still doing things. And that can vary
You should borrow a laptop with this hardware (or better still, an intel MacBook and an m1/m2 MacBook so you have a direct comparison) before you continue to post on this topic.
This is categorically nothing whatsoever to do with software.
Also, be sceptical about the hype; the benchmarks that show Apple destroying Intel are a bit cherry-picked according to some.
I think cherry-picked is beyond generous. Weren't they showing charts pretending to be direct performance comparisons, but were actually performance 'per watt' of M1 mobile vs desktop replacement intel cores. Reality was the M1's raw performance was considerably behind the intel desktop replacement range and had the same performance per watt as intels equivalent 'all day battery' range.
Nothing special about Apple kit. Lots of people change a three year old £400 Acer for a new £999 MacBook and are somehow surprised it's a bit slicker.
no idea, like I said, I get a new one every 12-18 months from work. I dont look at any benchmarks or reviews. The M1/M2 are crazy better than the previous intel ones for real life use.
Keyboard still sucks.
The M1/M2 are crazy better than the previous intel ones for real life use.
For YOUR real life use. Mine just has better battery life and won't run most of our software in containers 🙂
There seems to be a bit more to it than 'it's faster'. I suspect that the newly built software is very well optimised for certain tasks that the M1/2 is really good at. Which is no bad thing - having essentially only one CPU/GPU/architecture to design for allows you to do some really cool things with it, I expect and that's a strong benefit.
Infra team moved the iOS build servers to M1 chips this afternoon. 1hr compile time is now 5 mins which is gamechanging for our build measure learn loop.
I'm a deeply cynical CTO, but these chip really are great.
I have been looking at Macbooks as I am sick of the partial absence seizures that Windows is prone to. The thing that puts me off is that the the price increases quite quickly when you spec more memory and a decent size hard disk. How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?
Depends what you want to do (as always) but 16GB RAM and a 512GB HD is going to be pretty handy for general (even quite heavy) usage and not overtaken by more demanding system updates in the immediate future.
(That's what I'm looking at anyway).
When the M1 MBP first came out, I got one (13' 16Gb 512Gb SSD) to replace my slowly dying 2014 13 MBP for productivity mainly.
Quite a revelation to say the least, the performance and battery life compared to my Windows Asus ROG Flow X13 (AMD 5900HS 16Gb) for Lightroom and Premier Pro, for a similar form factor and weight.
The later 14' do look tasty, but hopefully this one will last just as long as my previous Intel MBP and the PowerPC MBP before that one.
How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?
Really depends on use and personal preference.
I have an M1 Macbook Pro for work with 32Gb ram.
Bought the lowest spec Macbook Air for personal use and I can't say I can really tell the difference for day to day use.
256Gb SSD isn't going to be storing a lot but storing stuff directly on your machine is a bit old fashioned these days anyway. The 8Gb ram was my main concern but they're so efficient I don't really expect it to be an issue for a few years yet.
I kinda figured for the price of the Pro, or upgrades, I can just buy another Air in a few years if I need to.
How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?
8Gb is plenty for most everyday consumer tasks, but upgrading to 16Gb for £200 gives that extra bit of future proofing.
HDD really depends on what you're going to keep on the machine and how much cloud you use.
FTR I opted for 16/512 then after a few months picked up a Samsung T7 1Tb SSD for £100. Latter houses all my FCP projects and they run almost as fast off the drive as they do natively - any difference is negligible. This equates to 1.5Tb for £300 instead of 1Tb for £400.
ordinarily I'd agree but I got an 8Gb M2 Mini this week where that £200 is actually quite a big jump so just went for the base spec as it's only for home use. No complaints so far!8Gb is plenty for most everyday consumer tasks, but upgrading to 16Gb for £200 gives that extra bit of future proofing.
not a new thing, think the last Mac to have upgradable memory was 2012? Although up until now they've just been soldered in (so [I]theoretically[/I] upgradable maybe?!) whereas no chance at all with the new unified architecture.I’m hanging out on a purchase as I’d like the new monitor and a studio, I suppose the only downer is the whole unified memory thang stops you adding extra memory.
AFAIK there is no OSX docker, really, it spins up a Linux VM so another layer of abstraction? I just use docker on a separate Linux server anyway (although I just play about, don't do it for a living 😃)Oh and yeah, Docker is still a dog, but I understand that’s due to some OSX funadmentals that isn’t going to change ever.
How much memory and what size disk is useful minimum?
Mark Payne has a couple of good videos comparing the Air and Pro and on how much RAM you need. He's a heavy Logic Pro user but makes useful comments for users with less demanding requirements too.
He also talks about using external SSDs for project work as @spacemonkey mentions. My current (dying) mid 2012 Pro has a 1Tb hard drive but a huge chunk of that is the Music (was iTunes) library which could easily be moved to an external drive (or NAS if I could be arsed) and I reckon 512Gb would be fine for me. I've tossed about the idea of going 256Gb and then using external drives but I think having more internally is just that bit more convenient.
So I reckon the cheapest I could get away with would be an M1 Air 8/256 at £999. 8/512 would be £1199. M2 8/512 is £1549 - newer chipset, better screen, MagSafe port.
Hmm.
I think cherry-picked is beyond generous. Weren’t they showing charts pretending to be direct performance comparisons, but were actually performance ‘per watt’ of M1 mobile vs desktop replacement intel cores.
Every presentation I saw showed both direct comparison and per watt. I guess someone with an agenda just picked out the per watt graph and went "LOLZ at silly Apple".
Reality was the M1’s raw performance was considerably behind the intel desktop replacement range and had the same performance per watt as intels equivalent ‘all day battery’ range.
Hmmm, really? Seems totally at odds to everything I've ever read (to put it extremely mildly).
What is really amusing it that within Apple's own line-up, the £649 M2 Mac Mini out performs the £5,499 Intel Mac Pro.
I think the issue is Apple does not include the full picture on its comparison charts. It omits performance data of competitors.
https://9to5mac.com/2022/03/31/m1-ultra-gpu-comparison-with-nvidia/
but as even that article explains, it's talking about power consumption of [I]just[/I] the discrete graphics card vs. the entire system in the case of the Mac, plus the price is way higher... so yes the Nvidia is faster (which I think as a dedicated device no-one would disagree with) but with the M1 you are getting decent performance for way less energy & at less cost.I think the issue is Apple does not include the full picture on its comparison charts. It omits performance data of competitors.
... £200 is actually quite a big jump so just went for the base spec as it’s only for home use.
The £200 also assumes you're paying full price. Plenty of discounts around from other suppliers who only sell the base model. It would've cost me an extra £300 to upgrade. That's a lot of money for 8gb ram.
<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">but with the M1 you are getting decent performance for way less energy & at less cost.</span>
Which is great and impressive. But Apple did stand up on a stage and say 'delivering faster performance than even the highest-end PC GPU'. Which it doesn't.
What is really amusing it that within Apple’s own line-up, the £649 M2 Mac Mini out performs the £5,499 Intel Mac Pro.
This has literally happened to a data scientist pal, they brought in the new mac mini from home 😂
don’t want to get into a whole “thing” about it but, no, they didn’t say that. You’ve cut the end of the sentence off & completely changed the meaning. I will concede that the full quote could possibly be mis-interpreted by someone with a poor grasp of English, however 😀But Apple did stand up on a stage and say ‘delivering faster performance than even the highest-end PC GPU’. Which it doesn’t.
(I won’t argue that it isn’t “cherry-picking” though 😂)
to crush my own vibe:
https://www.macworld.com/article/1485237/mac-security-t2-chip-macbook-activation-lock.html
“millions” of MacBooks that have been “condemned…to death”
Or to put it another way... no point stealing a MacBook, because you need the owner to unlock it before you can sell it on.
to crush my own vibe:
To summarise that article; you have to remove the device from your iCloud/"Find My Mac" account before you sell it. As has been the case for iPhones for many years without issue. Clickbait BS.
Yeah, crush what vibe? It’s a security feature 🤷♂️
EDIT: plus sounds like the guy complaining about it has been making his living from stealing or otherwise illegally obtaining unwanted machines that (for whatever reason) had been earmarked for destruction? 😀
Plenty of discounts around from other suppliers who only sell the base model.
Who?
“millions” of MacBooks that have been “condemned…to death”
Strange that Macworld posted that yesterday. I read about it months ago and Bumsted's tweet is from January last year.
yeah it just poppped up on HackerNews which is where I saw it
Who?
Got mine from John Lewis for about £100 less than Apple.
CostCo had it (very briefly!) for £600. Haven’t seen any other deals, someone would’ve posted it on HUKD surely? Obviously there’s the educational discount but that’s standard.
Just got my Basic Air M2 from Costco, £1109, so slightly cheaper than JL and a chunk cheaper than Apple. In theory, Costco do a 2 year warranty also
don’t want to get into a whole “thing” about it but, no, they didn’t say that. You’ve cut the end of the sentence off & completely changed the meaning. I will concede that the full quote could possibly be mis-interpreted by someone with a poor grasp of English, however 😀
(I won’t argue that it isn’t “cherry-picking” though 😂)
Adding 'while using 200W less power' does not define the power envelope they were talking about. Nothing to do with a poor grasp of English IMO.
I saw that £6k Intel Mac Pro geekbench score earlier, and how the new Mac Mini beats it. Something's weird about that geekbench result. My (tiny) Intel laptop beats the Mac Pro scores too for single-core, not far off multi-core either 🤔
Ooh, just looking at Costco now.
just seen this on HUKD, cracking deal on the new base spec M2, £585
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0BSHWPKXR?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&tag=pepperugc03-21&ascsubtag=2476161919
I have had Macs since first got a computer of my own (rather that using works ones).
I need Windows for work, but still have a desktop (and a laptop) Mac.
Getting a bit concerned that eventually the support for Bootcamp on these will fade, and there seems no M1/M2 path to get dual boot or emulation functional or licensed. I've read about the Parallels workaround but it seems a bit grey to say the least.
Might need to get a separate computer for Windows efforts which will be a pain.
I've read nothing to suggest there's any kind of a general problem with Parallels? Only complaints I've read have been related to gaming (graphical glitches etc) which as they probably involve some kind of hardware access is to be expected I guess. There's also an option from VMWare now.I’ve read about the Parallels workaround but it seems a bit grey to say the least.
Crossover (WINE) definitely works, I've done it, although obviously that's something you have to get working on a per-app basis.
this is actually what I use for work, we have a specific PC for running industrial printers, everyone just Remote Desktops to it when needed, works well enough!Might need to get a separate computer for Windows efforts which will be a pain.
Did anyone actually buy a Mac mini M2? I've just got the basic version and .......well, no one mentioned the flashing, cliching, black screen you constantly get! Has anyone sorted this yet? The interweb is full of ideas but nothing has worked yet. I'm awaiting a thunderbolt 4 to HDMI convertor that will hopefully sort the problem, but Apple seem very quiet on this issue, which is apparently very common and has been going on since the advent of the M1 chip.