[Closed] New car nightmare to many toys, fitted to the thing

But its just more knobs for knobs driving 1 plus tons of metal at speed while coordinating fiddling with all the buttons and knobs.

airbags are part of 30% safety BUT the psychology of car safety may/does lead to an increased sense of invulnerability in some drivers?

I really have no idea why you people are complaining, unless it's a helpless feeling of being left behind as everything you once knew becomes irrelevant and you feel you can't grasp the new world?

Nothing to do with that at all for me

I have chosen what I want in a car

rather than

being told what I need

Keeping up with a capalistic and consumerist world.

My choice based on my wants and needs, rather than being irrelevant I think

working out where you are going before hand is cool as are MAPs

auto sensing wipers.....I can do that and make a decision

Bluetooth, I do not need to answer the phone as others have said out on answer machine>>I am not on call all the time

Media centre personally happy listening to the radio or even having no media playing

Heated seats.....do not get leather seats

Aircon....adds weight to the vehicle, more drain on fuel and I can open a window

NOW Sunroofs I do miss.........

But its just more knobs for knobs driving 1 plus tons of metal at speed while coordinating fiddling with all the buttons and knobs.

Think about it for a minute - it's not.

Most of that stuff is automatic or saves having to fiddle with knobs. Leaving your stereo on mix everything is a LOT safer than changing CDs, for example. Likewise (responsible) use of a satnav is a lot easier and safer than reading a map.

My choice based on my wants and needs, rather than being irrelevant I think

Mine too! Or at least it would be if I were buying new. I WANT integrated satnav, bluetooth, rain sensing wipers etc, based on my own feelings.

I do not need to answer the phone as others have said out on answer machine>>I am not on call all the time

"Honey, can you get some milk on the way home please? Oh, you're already home, never mind."

Aircon....adds weight to the vehicle, more drain on fuel and I can open a window

No detectable difference in fuel economy for me, and it's vastly more effective than opening a window. Which also costs you fuel incidentally.

working out where you are going before hand is cool as are MAPs

YOU CANNOT SAFELY READ A MAP WHILST DRIVING

Please don't fall into the old git trap of thinking everything you don't like is evil and terrible and anyone who appreciates it is stupid.

Bit of a bugger if, like me, it's your only satnav device and music source.

My current car is full of clever gadgets: windows that go up and down (manually) a (manual) sunroof, windscreen wipers with two(!) speeds, a radio/cassette player, seats, a heater, the list goes on.

Yet more toys could be available. Auto on-off main beam lights. Automatic distance cruise controls.
Recognition of speed limit signs. Lane keeping control.
Light that bend round on corners from the sat Nav. Auto parking. HUD. The lists go on in modern cars... Some of which maybe reduce distraction which might improve drivers ability to concentrate. As
well as auto safety features.

Sat navs are ace, just don't drive off a cliff or turn down a gully if it tells you too, it's not hard, just look where it's telling you to go before you turn the steering wheel...

Auto-sensing wipers - handy in drizzle of varying intensity
Electric mirrors - extremely handy, don't have to stop to adjust the nearside
Electric windows - can open the passenger side from the driver if you want to talk to someone
Satnav - don't have to stop to consult a map
Bluetooth - don't have to stop to answer the phone
Media centre - lots of choice in music, don't have to stop to change CDs, have all your CDs in the car as well as at home/work etc
Heated seats - warm
Aircon - obviously extremely useful in hot weather but also when it's damp and humid

Agree with most of that - particularly the aircon, living in central Spain - apart from the bloody automatic wipers on my Renault. They're never at quite the right speed, either too fast (when intermittent would be perfectly acceptable) or too slow.

Oh, and the electric handbrake is great too. No idea if it works at speed, and funnily enough have no intention of testing it 🙂

I don't use the heated seats on mine, but my wife likes them. Drove in a gigantic truck in the US whilst on holiday that had air-conditioned seats. Unfortunately not a coolant circuit in the seat, but just a fan and an air gap for it to blow into. Worked though.

Please don't fall into the old git trap of thinking everything you don't like is evil and terrible and anyone who appreciates it is stupid.

I do not and I support your choice to have what gadget you want..............will the companies support me not to have every gadget going?

I'm pretty sure that poverty-spec cars will always be available. But even if they aren't, you don't [i]have[/i] to use any of the gadgets. Sat navs, air cons, all of these things have an 'off' switch.

You know there are base models available yes?

so why do I have to consider a 'base' model?

or a poverty spec???

or is this a consumer based society with MAMILs buying high spec JAG/AUDI for the week and then a caterham for the weekend?

Yes all these things have off switches BUT I do not want them? so why sell them to me? or force me to have a heavier car that takes more fuel to run and has more things to go wrong? Things I can only take to a specialist garage to sort out?

I used to have a Mondeo that had this apparently as an automatic feature. Going along 70 + on the motorway all the lights and dials would come on and then the engine and electrics would cut out.
Was quite uneventuful really.

Mine used to do that trick too. The first time was definitely the most interesting - dip the clutch to shift down to engine brake and the PAS goes too - awesumz!

If you went through tunnels or lanes sided by high walls, swithched the ignition to position 1, pumped the accelerator then switched back to position 2, you'd get a significant bang and flames out of the back box.

I'm not sure modern petrol engine systems will allow that now

BUT I do not want them? so why sell them to me?

Because you are an outlier - most people do want them. As an outlier it is not cost effective to make cars to your specification. Especially when you can just simply NOT USE THEM so they won't bother you in the slightest. Fuel economy will not be significantly affected either. The reason cars are now heavier is the extra crash protection built in.

As for them going wrong - so what? You don't use them anyway.

so why do I have to consider a 'base' model?

You don't. But that's the model with the fewest gadgets, which is exactly what you are asking for. Are you objecting to the use of the word 'base' or something?

Aircon....adds weight to the vehicle, more drain on fuel and I can open a window

Mine didnt work last week, a week of warm weather, wet camping gear and a thousand miles and I was glad to have it back!

Howabout a feature that switches off your mobile while the engine is running? That'd be a cool one.

Both of my Android phones have a 'theme' called 'Car Mode'. I've set it up to not ring but divert straight to answerphone whenever I plug the Aux lead into it. Still makes the text noise but I can ignore that until I next stop. Or I could put it into 'Airplane' mode if I want to disconnect completely.

My air con failed a few week back during a very hot spell, opening a window certainly gives you a hot wind blast but did bugger all for my very sweaty back - I was on my way to an interview too 🙁

It's not air blasting around you that's helpful, it's cool air, something opening a window doesn't help - ask anyone that rides a motorbike.
I'm all for most tech toys in cars, I won't volunteer to go back to doing without in a hurry.

so why do I have to consider a 'base' model?

So you don't want the gadgets, a model exists that you can buy that doesn't have the gadgets you don't want.

And as a bonus, it's cheaper than the other ones, with the gadgets you wouldn't use anyway.

But now your moaning because you don't like the terminology used to describe it !

Would it make you feel better if we called it the "wise and better than other people" spec ??

I think a bigger issue than gadget distraction is the isolating from speed, noise and sensations in a modern car.

My old 1982 Fiesta (common theme in this thread) made it feel like 30 was a good speed, and 60 was going some....you felt bumps, heard noises, felt the car move around on corners or braking. Now you sit in smooth silence at warp speed nine on urban roads...and don't really notice.

so why do I have to consider a 'base' model?

or a poverty spec???

Now I'm really confused. You want a car with all the gadgets, without all the gadgets? You don't want toys but still want to pay for them?

Because you are an outlier

never heard this term ....so clearly I am in that category, 😀

my point is I am happy choosing not to have all the gadgets........been there done it............ and there are things I can choose to live without

if I lived in Spain air con yes, I live in England not incredibly hot so no need for air con.

Intrestingly in this debate, if you choose not to have the gadgets you become

poverty spec owner

base model

outlier

rather than a consumer choosing what they want in a consumerist society.

If you all choose to have gadgets great, your choice.

I like love and adore technology, I just choose to pick what I like.

Cougar I would like to choose to have a great engine, good suspension and the mechanics rather than gadgets and I am precluded from them if I choose the base or poverty spec.

I live in England not incredibly hot so no need for air con

I would like to choose to have a great engine, good suspension and the mechanics rather than gadgets

[img] [/img]

Next?

I do take your point, joking aside. You're basically in the realms of the Sport / Zetec / SRi models and 'performance' add-on packs, which do compromise spec levels in favour of performance. These models do exist though perhaps not as pared-down as you'd want. But as someone (Molgrips?) said, your requirements aren't common.

Personally I'd have the opposite issue; I want all the toys [i]and[/i] the performance options. Why can't I have both?

You can have both Cougar because the companies let you have both.... 😀

like I said before folk have a car for the week day and one for weekend and end up with the Vauxhall above.

I think there are more outsiders/outliers like me but tend to be ignored so end up going down the customising route....which at my age is ridiculous and hilarious. I like the technology and my afternoon at awesome gti showed a vast spectrum of folks and genders not all 'boy racers'at all, ultimately there will always be people who do need want choose require cars with all the gadgets and at the moment can choose other avenues to find what THEY want.

Do motorists really need all this added tosh.

and for me no I do not.

Intrestingly in this debate, if you choose not to have the gadgets you become

poverty spec owner

base model

outlier

Do you think these are derogatory terms? That is interesting in itself. You seem insecure. BTW the term 'poverty spec' is tongue in cheek; base model is a common sense term for it since it's the base spec on which others are built; and outlier is a stastical term, nothing more. And yet you feel insulted by such terms.

I would like to choose to have a great engine, good suspension and the mechanics rather than gadgets

A modern car such as a Mondeo already has all these things, AND a few gadgets. You really have nothing to complain about. If they had to provide every possible combination of spec, then prices would go up across the range. Most people do not mind being given extras on the base model. Most people are happy to simply not use the gadgets they don't want. If it bothers you that much why not remove the A/C compressor and components, you could fetch decent money on ebay for them. Likewise the bluetooth stereo/satnav/whatever.

Re aircon - the sun still shines hot through windows, even in England.

Dear Molgrips, I was pointing put the words can be construed as negatives in a consumerist, perception of wealth based on goods manner, hence

poverty spec

base model

may even have 'common sense' meanings but are used by companies/society to indicate inferior, unable to afford, rather than choice even outlier forces the person further from the mainstream or be discounted......

outlier is an observation point that is distant from other observations.[1] An outlier may be due to variability in the measurement or it may indicate experimental error; the latter are sometimes excluded from the data set

Re security or insecurity............given what I drive I feel quite secure but thanks for the observation. 😀

Indeed I did live with a MK2Golf gti without PAS for over a decade, that was my choice.

Reoccuring theme Choice.

Do motorists really need all this added tosh.

and for me no I do not.

Night

hence

poverty spec

base model

may even have 'common sense' meanings but are used by companies/society to indicate inferior,

I've yet to see a company sell a "poverty spec" or even "base" model car, that was just me being irreverent. The entry level models have catchy little names like "Studio" (Fiesta), "Edge" (Mondeo), "Expression" (Astra) and so on. The proposed Vauxhall Insignia Amish Edition and Ford Focus Peasant didn't make in past Market Research.

I used to have a Focus LX. Almost upgraded to a Forester XT, though I did think maybe an Almera SLX would give most of the benefits.

Still no idea what the OP is complaining about. Seems to be objecting to the existence of things he doesn't want and does not need to use. Odd.

Being all anti consumerist about his very expensive consumer item is nicely ironic too.

poverty spec
base model
may even have 'common sense' meanings but are used by companies/society to indicate inferior,

They aren't used by companies at all, as pointed out above.

But even if they were used to indicate "inferior"

That would be basically because they are.

I loved my 1972 bay window van. But in terms of spec, it was vastly inferior when compared to my German spec T4 Multivan.

And Che cheapest mondeo's spec is inferior to a top end model with everything on the options list ticked.

But even if they were used to indicate "inferior"

That would be basically because they are.

But they're not, really. It's more that the higher end models are superior. It's quite difficult to buy a crap car (new) these days. You're into the realms of the butt of Top Gear's wit, the Dacia Sandreo, where a radio is an optional extra.

I have the ultimate in bike transport that would suit a luddite like yourself. A 55 plate Fiat doblo with nothing in the way of electronic frippary. You can stick a bike in wheels on in the back (rider too if need be) and of course all the associated kit.
However it does have a particularly crap stereo that you have to reach over to and change channels. This is a pain after me last car which had stalk mounted controls - so to answer your question, the more easy to use gadgets the better, plus as you know a more up to date and flash motor attracts more bragging rights than a 10 year old fiat! - well if you are 12 at least.

But they're not, really. It's more that the higher end models are superior.

So, I say car A is inferior compared to car B

And you disagree by saying that it's actually car B that's superior.

great point.

😉

This is one of the more unbelievable threads about cars I've seen in a while.
My car is fitted with adaptive cruise control. Did I use it on the way to work? No, because it's b-roads all the way. Damn handy on long motorway trips though where I genuinely believe it's safer and leaves me less tired at the end.
My car is fitted with auto lights. This seems like a reasonable thing to have and I can't work out how it's less safe that they come on a little earlier than I may choose. Didn't come on on the way to work though
My car is fitted with a sat nav. I didn't use it either as I know the way, however for finding a street in a city I don't know, it's quite handy and a lot safer than looking around for road names, at my map etc.
It's fitted with a telephone kit. That's safer than answering a phone directly. I didn't use that either as there's no reception across the top of the Mendips on my way to work.
It's got air con. I can't for the life of me work out why this could possibly be construed as unsafe to be comfortable and at a constant temperature!
Do you spot a pattern developing here?

Do I need all these things? Of course not, I managed quite well for years in basic cars and vans, on some of which even the windy windows didn't work. Do I want them? Well, why not. They make driving a more pleasurable experience, and I'm confident, a safer one so I've now bought myself an uber consumer driven super car - a Golf.

PS - it's also got LED interior lights which sadly, have yet to lead me towards any dogging sessions. Shame that.

So, I say car A is inferior compared to car B

And you disagree by saying that it's actually car B that's superior.

great point.

(-:

What I was trying to say was, basically, the 'baseline' is pretty damn good these days. Which seems to be the OP's beef, more or less.

The only "gadget" I really want would be one of those Google self driving cars. Then I could sit back and read a good book.

While sipping at a glass of beer.

But the OP original argument is that people, having these gadgets, will constantly play with them as they drive.

And it's true. As I drive I constantly have to switch knobs, turn levers, adjust seats, open & close openings, alter mirrors and finetune ambient temperatures across all zones.

Once I drove from Manchester to Truro and only managed to glance at the road twice - I was so absorbed in fiddling that the time flew by and I could have sworn I was in some kind of time travelling device.

I used to have a Focus LX. Almost upgraded to a Forester XT, though I did think maybe an Almera SLX would give most of the benefits.

You need the Berlingo XTR!

What I was trying to say was, basically, the 'baseline' is pretty damn good these days.

[b]Which seems to be the OP's beef, more or less.[/b]

Could be?

Although it sounded more like a generic moan about people that drive cars really.

And pointing out the fact that he must be better than everyone else because he managed not to die in a huge fireball despite these new "nightmare" cars that are obviously being designed purely to kill.

I can't see how most of those gadgets are distracting. In fact, built-in satnavs don't let you faff with them when you are moving, unlike the aftermarket ones, which is better.

Satnavs prevent you faffing with maps, and bluetooth kits prevent you faffing with your phone. All things that increase your time spent with eyes on the road, not reduce it. In theory at least. In practice - well, inattentive people will always be inattentive about something,

Vondally's got a point, being able to spec your car exactly how you want it would be nice. All the driving stuff you want with the option to opt out of all the frippery you don't want. Like he says consumerism, instead we get what manufacturers want to sell us, admittedly quite likely influenced by what the majority want.

Mind you a lot of companies don't let you choose exactly what you want without bumping up the cost, instead you choose packages they offer. Full bikes are (nominally) cheaper than buying separately, but try speccing X instead of Y and it'll come at a cost (either direct to you or LBS may take it out of their margins)