[Closed] My helmet is very deformed (graphic photo content)

I don't think there's much doubt about that one!

falling off your bike doesn't happen, the crash was purely anecdotal. 😀

glad your ok though

Christ alive!

It seems you are a lucky man.

Glad to hear you are mostly ok.

glad your ok glad you had a lid on.

the other argument go's along the lines of the fact that you had a helmet on and you are ok means nothing really, which is kind of true i suppose but i will be wearing mine all the same.

PeterPoddy - Member
I don't think there's much doubt about that one!

Don't worry, he'll be along soon.

Wow, you're a lucky man! Lucky enough to have the sense to be wearing a helmet.

Did they check out the whole of your spine? I went headfirst into a wall and my helmet had just a scratch on it, nothing compared to yours. I was badly concussed and had a mashed face. It wasn't till the second day in hospital after complaining of a lack of breath that a consultant decided they needed to do a sideways MRI scan of my back and only then did they find that I'd fractured my T8 (just above your imaginary bra strap) vertebra and that my spine was poking the back of my lungs inwards. Spent the next three months in a back brace off work.

Like I said: you're a lucky guy! ( I count myself lucky too, btw)

TJ to the forum, please.

I'll summarise for him though until he gets here

- Glad you're ok
- The helmet snapped so it didn't work (this is incorrect as it goes)
- You don't know for sure that the helmet did work because you've not had the same accident without it.

Tea anyone. Earl Grey with milk and one sugar for me ( 😉 )

Lucky chap, hope you're not rotationally injured 😉

CaptainFlashheart - Member

Don't worry, he'll be along soon.

Daytime is :big hitter safe: now he's got a job 😀

- Glad you're ok
- The helmet snapped so it didn't work (this is incorrect as it goes)
- You don't know for sure that the helmet did work because you've not had the same accident without it.

Additional to above, and further proof that the helmet failed to work:
If the helmet had worked you'd know because you'd have suffered a severe spinal injury due to the additional torque applied to your neck by the weight of the helmet.

And glad you're largely ok.

TJ got a job, ah, that's good news all round 🙂

I'm sorry, but:

...Wheel: pringled, [b][u]carbon road bike[/u][/b]: smashed, me: supermanned across junction...

p.s. glad you're ok.

And the important message from this is:

Driver got done for driving without due care and attention

A couple of Devil's Advocate / TJ answers before the inevitable helmet yawnfest:

1) I don't think even TJ would say that a helmet [i]never[/i] helps.

2) most of the anti-helmet-compulsion debate focusses on the health impacts to the population as a whole, not individual crashes.

3) your head isn't made of polystyrene. A bike helmet is designed to break and crumple like that. A skull isn't. So a destroyed helmet doesn't [i]necessarily[/i] mean you avoided a destroyed skull. Would definitely have nipped tho!

4) they stuck you on a board with a collar. A helmet didn't help your neck/spine. So neck braces and spine protectors should also be compulsory.

There. Fire stoked. 😈

Anyways, looks like a chuffin nasty one. Glad you're (more or less) okay fella and that the driver got done for it.

[url= http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5619037564_f9459edcf5.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5063/5619037564_f9459edcf5.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/bucklevision/5619037564/ ]tj-signal[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/bucklevision/ ]j.buckle[/url], on Flickr

Ok, I have a helmet almost as bad from a high speed crash off road. Quite frankly after destroying my third you would have to be an imbecile to ride off road without one. I feel quite naked riding without one, its just instinctive now.

....and I think the case or roadies has just been made 🙂

I feel quite naked riding without one

Opened yourself up for a line of attack on risk-taking there... 😉

Jeebus!

Just for TJ's benefit, I re-created the accident without a helmet. The results were pretty graphic, so here's a toned down reconstruction.

[img] [/img]

😀

Looks very much like a MET Parachute? If so what happened to the chin bar?

Glad you're ok.
A question for all the helmet evangelists; if the the government decided that helmets should be compulsory, but that current bicycle helmets were largely useless, instead passing a law that you must wear an approved motorbike helmet if cycling on the road (minimum 1500g and no vents), would you still happily wear one and continue to chastise those that chose not to?
I just wonder, theoretically like.

Do people genuinely give a toss what that antagonistic idiot thinks?

Maybe start a fan club called the helmet headz

Opened yourself up for a line of attack on risk-taking there...

True dat I'm afraid.

If you ever say things like "I'd never ride [i]that[/i] without a helmet" then you are admitting that wearing a helmet is allowing you to take more risks.

Is TJ working as Beta tester for Wikipedia ?

Had a close call with a motorist overtaking and then turning left in front of me this morning. What with that AND this, I think i'll go back to wearing the noggin plastic...

Looks like you left it sitting on a heater that was on full skelp!

I wear a helmet 95% of the time, just to the shop or pub I may leave it off

but .........

If you ever say things like "I'd never ride that without a helmet" then you are admitting that wearing a helmet is allowing you to take more risks

I'd never say that, I may say I would have felt more comfortable with a hat on, but I don't think there'd be anything that I'd refuse purely because I didn't have a helmet

I can understand the public health argument. Helmets put people off cycling, they are than fatter than they would be otherwise (contentious argument in its own right) and suffer more ill health than they would otherwise.

That is the population based argument... however on an individual basis the helmet probably saved my skull on this occasion (no, TJ I am not prepared to act out some sort of freakish control experiment where I rig up the same crash without the helmet - you however are welcome to). The personal choice argument is a bit naff: as one's actions clearly affect others: the widow you leave behind (financially cheap but emotionally costly option), the NHS bill thats higher since I'm on ward drinking through a straw for 6 months, the witness who has flashbacks about holding my brains in Jackie-O style and the driver who gets a more severe sentence, loses job, wife and kids.

I'm loaning out my smashed lid to concerned mothers for their kids to take to show and tell at school. I'm sending it with the slogan "Wear a helmet - don't be one"

I once had a pretty nasty over the bars onto pointy rock when wearing a similar helmet and it didn't destroy it anything like as badly (hairline cracks only) so that looks like a pretty serious impact and I don't think there is much doubt at all it saved the rider from serious injury or death.

Met parachute- correct. Can be worn with or without chin-guard. Not using as interferes with camelbak use when mountain biking.

Wore chin guard on previous Met that "literally" saved my face in The Alps. (That's a whole other story involving a QR that came undone whilst airborne... and also I've had 4 bikes stolen in that last year too... I think I might give this game up... work colleague was just about to get himself a bike in the sales but when his wife saw this helmet, he came home to find an iPad and pair of slippers had been bought for him with bike cash)

That is the population based argument... however on an individual basis the helmet probably saved my skull on this occasion

Agreed (I was just subbing for TJ - someone has to).

The personal choice argument is a bit naff: as one's actions clearly affect others: the widow you leave behind (financially cheap but emotionally costly option), the NHS bill thats higher since I'm on ward drinking through a straw for 6 months, the witness who has flashbacks about holding my brains in Jackie-O style and the driver who gets a more severe sentence, loses job, wife and kids.

But the same could be said for not wearing a neck brace or spine protector.

Or someone [i]could[/i] argue that the accident was made worse by your personal choice not to wear a high-viz jacket; not have lights and multiple reflectors front and back; not using an airhorn; not carry a large flag; cycle too quickly; not choose a safe off-road route; not drive...

Point being that the "personal choice" thing is often used to apportion part of the blame onto the cyclist, when this accident sounds like it was clearly the drivers fault.

I'm loaning out my smashed lid to concerned mothers for their kids to take to show and tell at school. I'm sending it with the slogan "Wear a helmet - don't be one"

Nice. Like it 😀

I think I might give this game up... work colleague was just about to get himself a bike in the sales but when his wife saw this helmet, he came home to find an iPad and pair of slippers had been bought for him with bike cash)

In ten years you will have a healthy heart and lungs (but a few scars). Your colleague's wife will be taking those slippers into hospital for him as he recovers from first heart attack.

Your colleague's wife will be taking those slippers into hospital for him as he recovers from first heart attack.

Ed Zackerly.

That's the population-based / public health argument right there.

Actual risk of serious injury is far lower than the long term health risks of inactivity.

Good thing it wasn't too serious in the end.
I got hit from behind by a car last year - catapulted me over the top of the car and I landed on the road behind. My bike broke the cars windscreen and the impact was so hard the rim on my rear wheel split. I ended up with 11 stitches in the back of my knee because my foot was pushed off the pedal by the upwards force and the pedal went up the back of my leg. I had a week off work because I couldn't walk.
What hacked me off was that the driver wasn't charged with anything and then disputed it was his fault. The Police just said he hadn't been drinking but this was on a clear road in town with a 30mph limit so he, at least, wasn't driving with due care and attention.
I got a good settlement from his insurance but I wouldn't have pushed it so hard if he'd been charged.
(Mini rant over!)

the driver wasn't charged with anything and then disputed it was his fault

😯

He hit you from behind. How could it be anything other than his fault??
You're damn lucky you went over, rather than under, his car.

: reverse TJ argument :

given the apparent propensity for 'over biked weekend warriors' to get 'all storm troopered up' does anyone think that donning bike protective kit may actually encourage some people to take up cycling ????

He hit you from behind. How could it be anything other than his fault??

I once hit a motorbike from behind - it was his fault
He came out of a side road in front of me and pretty much stopped for some bizarre reason

Yes, the first I knew about him being there was a massive bump and then I was in the air. I reckon he was going more than 30, but no way to prove that. He sent his insurance policy a photo of his car after respraying it and replacing the windscreen to hide the damage, then claimed I swerved to avoid a drain and went into his wing. Pretty stupid as the police report stated the damage.

'all storm troopered up'

Ruroc full face helmet anyone?

[img] [/img]
http://www.ruroc.com/store/2/rg-1/core/white/

That's the trouble, without independent witnesses, you're often ****ed

I have to say that the one thing that "pleased" me about the whole incident was the seriousness with which the police took it. None of the "only a cyclist" or "he was asking for it, being on the road" shizzle that I was expecting. They took it seriously and once they had witness statements "were on the side" of the cyclist... it might help that they do their beat on bikes round here sometimes (with helmets, bike ones not just tits)

Hello! You called?

had an off, without a helmet, when I was about 14. Bag in the front wheel halfway down the fastest local hill, catapulted out of the saddle in perfect arc body rigid landed full square on the top of my head. Luckily someone was walking up the pavement at the time and witnessed it and called the ambulance. No external injuries at all but i was in and out of conciousness (apparently I would come round and swear about how my head hurt and pass out again) for a couple of days followed by a week of splitting headaches. I have no memory of the incident or the week before.

No need for you today, TJ - the discussion is coming along just fine 😉

Congrats on the new job though 🙂

The police we very nice when I got hit and the ambulence arrived really quickly. I just got the impression the police had bigger things to deal with (which maybe they did)

Thats actually one of the most convincing photos / stories I have heard on here

GrahamS - Member
1) I don't think even TJ would say that a helmet never helps.

hilldodger - Member

: reverse TJ argument :

given the apparent propensity for 'over biked weekend warriors' to get 'all storm troopered up' does anyone think that donning bike protective kit may actually encourage some people to take up cycling ????

I think armoured up people have more crashes.

TandemJeremy - Member

I think armoured up people have more crashes.

quite possibly, but I reckon the donning of 'battle gear' may actually encourage some people to take up healthy bicycle based activity which counterbalances their extra injuries, maybe......

The insurance companies will certainly try to reduce any pay out if you aren't wearing a helmet.

Raymond - Member
The insurance companies will certainly try to reduce any pay out if you aren't wearing a helmet.

Really? Why would helmet use make [i]any[/i] difference to insurance payment on a bike broken in an RTC/RTA (whatever it's called this week)?

I like the 'effect on others' argument for wearing a helmet - NHS costs, loved ones, etc.

Mainly because exactly the same argument can be made for making it compulsory to use a bike instead of a car for all journeys under a couple of miles, for mandatory helmet wearing for car drivers and passengers, for making alcohol illegal, and so on...

Ok, I have a helmet almost as bad from a high speed crash off road. Quite frankly after destroying my third you would have to be an imbecile to ride off road without one. I feel quite naked riding without one, its just instinctive now.

Sounds like you need to be more careful when riding off-road. Three smashed helmets in how long? Even with the protective effect of the helmet, you're still exposing yourself to the risk of head injury.

Really? Why would helmet use make any difference to insurance payment on a bike broken in an RTC/RTA (whatever it's called this week)?

Didn't a court decide there was some contributory negligence from a cyclist, in respect to the head injuries they sustained? The driver was at fault, but because the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet their compensation was reduced.

Which is ridiculous, but I think that's what happened.

The insurance companies will argue that compensation should be reduced if you don't fully comply with highway code. So the right lights, reflectors at the correct height etc. For helmets they just say that any head injury would have been less serious if a helmet was worn.

Looks like you're right:

Cyclist hit by car on wrong side of the road

Mr X suffered serious head injuries when he was knocked off his bicycle by a car driven by the Defendant. Liability was in dispute throughout. His injuries included frontal lobe injuries which resulted in language and communication difficulties and some intellectual impairment. There were no independent eye witnesses to the accident. Our investigations found a tyre mark on the road which showed that the defendant's car was on the wrong side of the road at the time of impact. Following negotiations, the claim settled for £350,000.00, which took into account Mr X's failure to wear a cycle helmet.

http://www.boltburdonkemp.co.uk/en/services-bolt-burdon-kemp-no-win-no-fee-solicitors/personal-injury-bolt-burdon-kemp-no-win-no-fee-solicitors/road%20accident%20claims/success%20stories.aspx

TJ, I'd be interested in your opinion on this?

Tree - same case on your link?

We obtained evidence from an independent cycle helmet expert and using calculations to determine the speed of the car, established that because of the speed and position of impact a helmet would not have made a significant difference to Mr W's injuries.

thats the general position. If it can be shown that a helmet would reduce injuries you can reduce damages. however usually this cannot be estabilished indeed the case above is the first I hve heard and I don't know if its binding.

Many cases insurance companies try to reduce damages on these grounds - the vast majority of cases they

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=5180 fail

mandatory helmet wearing for car drivers and passengers

I've often thought it would be very [i]interesting[/i] to compare the annual number of car occupants suffering serious head injuries to the number of cyclists with similar injuries.

My suspicion is that the greater number of participants, higher speed impacts and close proximity to hard surfaces means that compulsory car helmets would save many more lives than compulsory bike helmets.

But no one seems keen to tackle that one for some reason. 😀

Graham - compulsory helmets for in car use, pedestrians and drinker would all save far more lives - without the negative effects on public health

WOW. Glad that you're OK.

I never wear a helmet, this has made me think about it though 😕

Graham - compulsory helmets for in car use, pedestrians and drinker would all save far more lives - without the negative effects on public health

Yep. I believe you, but it'd be a bit more compelling with some hard figures though.

I like throwing figures around, particularly when poking the anti-cyclist brigade on local news forums.

I recently countered the usual [i]"damn cyclists are a danger to pedestrians"[/i] argument by pointing out that on average cyclists kill 1 pedestrian every two to three years; cars kill 1 pedestrian every day*. Difficult to argue against that.

* Source: DfT Road Casualties

graham - I think you will find numbers on cyclehelmets.org

I recently countered the usual "damn cyclists are a danger to pedestrians" argument by pointing out that on average cyclists kill 1 pedestrian every two to three years; cars kill 1 pedestrian every day. Difficult to argue against that.

Very easy to argue - how many cyclists are there compared to car drivers?

I think that, even on a per mile used basis, cars kill far far more people than bikes.

compulsory helmets for in car use, pedestrians and drinker would all save far more lives - without the negative effects on public health

Hang on a minute, I thought your mantra was that there was no proof that helmets saved any lives at all?

😀

Across populations for bikes[u]

Hang on a minute, I thought your mantra was that there was no proof that helmets saved any lives at all?

Proper car crash helmets do though - because they are designed for far larger impacts and are generally worn with neck braces.

Very easy to argue - how many cyclists are there compared to car drivers?

New bikes outsell new cars roughly two to one. 🙂

Yes, three helemets broken!

Nr 1: is a cop out ....mum drove over in the car when I was a kid, fell off the shelf in the garage!

Nr 2: Went over the handlebars night riding in Dalby, not significant damage but enough to require retiring it.

Nr 3: Not long ago on a rocky decent from New Mills Golf Course in the Peak. High Speed crash and landed on shoulder/head. Helmet almost as bad as the OP but poly outer remained intact. No headache or concussion but I'm damm sure it would have been a lot worse had I not been wearing the helmet.

I'm not in favour compulsion to wear helemts, I just think its sensible ...and you really don't notice them (well I feel uncomfortable when riding on or off road without one tbh).

....and based on my experience you would have to be an idiot not to wear one on technical off road terrain.

Proper car crash helmets do though

oh I see, peds and drinkers in F1 Schuberths?

Incidentally, I've destroyed two bike helmets 😀

1: fleeing down a steep hill on a quiet road at a fair rate of knots. My mate ahead pulls into a side road. So do I. Somehow I didn't see the car park barrier was down until it was enthusiastically pressed against my head tube and I was flying over it in a state of some puzzlement.

2: some feral kids thought it would be mightily amusing to drop a big potato from a railway bridge onto my head as I cycled under it. 😳 very amusing, but split the helmet in two places and broke my glasses.

oh I see, peds and drinkers in F1 Schuberths?

If it saves lives then surely it's a price worth paying? 😀

Ah go on then I've done a bit of research. 😉

According to the always useful [url= http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/statistics/datatablespublications/accidents/casualtiesgbar/rrcgb2009.html ]Reported Road Casualties Great Britain 2009: Annual Report[/url], [i](Table 6c: type and Proportion of road casualties with injury and age group: HES 2009)[/i]

37% of the 7,164 pedal cyclists admitted to hospital had head/face injuries versus 32% of the 12,506 car occupants.

Therefore 2,644 cyclists versus 4,001 car occupants suffered head/face injury.

Even if we assume that none of those cyclists were wearing helmets (unlikely) then it still seems pretty clear that compulsory helmets in cars would prevent greater numbers of head/face traumas.

😀

grahamS that must have been a big potato

[img] [/img]

Damn that was a comedy pic of a giant potato.