[Closed] My first! AND I've the paper to prove it.

given this is in chat I assume you were driving 😉

This is on a bike I take it.
Any points on your licence ??

Three red lights??

You need a licence for a bike????? ***, am I going to get done for that too? 😯

No, but you can be given points on your licence if you have one.

Urban myth

Maybe an urban myth.
I got down once in the car jumping a red light - 3 points and £90 or so.

Fortunately, I don't have a car. Guilty concience, though.

jon1973 - Member

Three red lights??

Yep.

I got down once in the car jumping a red light - 3 points and £90 or so.

Maybe an urban myth.

I do know that you can be given points for non-motoring offences...

if you had a proper bike you could have dropped him 😉

I do have a proper bike:
[img] [/img]

Unfortunately, I don't have a proper engine...

[img] [/img]

Not an urban myth at all. One of my colleagues lost his licence and job because he got 3 points for jumping a red light on his bike. He already had 9 points on his licence from speeding, so was using the bike to commute as his insurance costs were horrific.

Where was it ?

Saw them stopping cyclists on my Central London commute on Weds.

[i]One of my colleagues lost his licence and job because he got 3 points for jumping a red light on his bike[/i]

he should have got a decent solicitor.

I do have a proper bike:

Let's see a picture of it, then.

😉

benslow - Member

Where was it ?

Bottom of Tower Bridge road off the New Kent road.

CaptainFlashheart - Member

I do have a proper bike:

Let's see a picture of it, then.

wwaswas - Member

One of my colleagues lost his licence and job because he got 3 points for jumping a red light on his bike

he should have [s]got a decent solicitor[/s] stopped at the red light.

well, that too Rusty_Spanner but also got some legal advice after the event.

was plod on foot, or in car, or on a bike?
I'm getting really vexed at the moment with RLJers and have chased a few down and vented my spleen at them. It's becoming a bit of a problem, think I need to chill out a bit.

Yeah. No point in accepting you were wrong and facing up to the consequences.

I'd really like to see all red light jumpers fined, whatever their mode of transport.
As cyclists are more vulnerable to the consequences of RLJ'ing, surely this could only be a good thing?

And kudos to Woppit for not whining about how unfair it all is.

One of my colleagues lost his licence and job because he got 3 points for jumping a red light on his bike

he should have got a decent solicitor.

He dad is one. Open/shut case unfortunately 😐

No, it's not unfair. I'll just have to get fitter and cycle faster instead of looking for naughty short-cuts.

I cannot see that bicycles are "vehicles" for the purpose of road traffic legislation.

There are specific offences relating to bikes (dangerous cycling, cycling without due care and attention etc) but the offence under s36 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 explicitly refers to "vehicles".

Since an electrically-assisted pedal cycle is explicitly NOT a vehicle (see s189(1)(c) of the Road Traffic Act 1988) I think a normal pedal cycle is unlikely to be a 'vehicle'.

You're welcome 🙂

Milky1980 - I'm not going down the TJ route on this. I think your mate had bad legal advice (from whoever) and that there is no endoreable offence for jumping a red light on a bicycle. We'll disagree on this for ever so, I'm out.

wwaswas +1. See my post just up there ^^

Still no excuse for RLJ'ing though.

Although, interestingly, I recall reading that there are plans to adapt traffic lights to let cyclists go first on their own green light whilst the "vehicle" lights remain red, for safety; which is kind of what I was doing anyway. 😉

Guess I should have waited for it to become official, though... 🙁

woppit - you're missing the point. You can't be given a fixed penalty notice for RLJing (contravening s36 of the RTA 1988) on a bicycle since a bicycle is not a 'vehicle' and the offence is only committed where a VEHICLE fails to comply with the traffic direction.

Check it out - i'm not making this s**t up:

[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36 ]Section 36 Road Traffic Act 1988[/url]
[url= http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/189 ]Section 189 Road Traffic Act 1988[/url]

One of the main problems in large cities like London is that traffic systems are designed to deal with motor vehicles, and quite often unecesarily impede cyclists. Blanketing cyclists on their much slower, much less dangerous pedal bikes in with all other road traffic is the wrong approach, and with incrasing numbers of cycles on our roads, issues such as red light jumping by cyclists needs to be adressed effectively, not just seen as a revenue stream for the Met/Treasury. Whilst cyclists do need to obey rules where public safety is concerned, there are many red lights which cyclists could safely ride through, rather than have to stop and be held up with all the other traffic. Ineed, some junctions are so poorly designed with regard to cyclists, it's actually safer to proceed through them, to put yourself in a safer position on the road.

I really don't see how fining the odd cyclist for jumping red lights is an effective deterrent to the vast majority of cyclists out there; the increase in the complaints about this issue in the media etc shows that the problem isn't being solved by fines. Other, more effective and suitable solutions are needed.

Although, interestingly, I recall reading that there are plans to adapt traffic lights to let cyclists go first on their own green light whilst the "vehicle" lights remain red, for safety

I'd be stunned if that ever works out properly. Almost all drivers of cars, taxis, vans, buses, lorries and riders of motorcycles and mopeds can't work out the rules around advanced stop lines, can't see this being much different

there are many red lights which cyclists could safely ride through, rather than have to stop and be held up with all the other traffic. Ineed, some junctions are so poorly designed with regard to cyclists, it's actually safer to proceed through them, to put yourself in a safer position on the road.

I hear that a lot, but are there any properly conducted independent studies / research that have proved this? genuine question - not a troll!

And speaking of fines; a £60 fine for using a mobile phone whilst driving seems to have had very little effect indeed, judging by the numbers of people (including police!) I've seen.

I hear that a lot, but are there any properly conducted independent studies / research that have proved this? genuine question - not a troll!

My own 'research' has shown that there are many red lights that can be safely ridden through if you're on a bike. The same way that you don't have to use a marked crossing to cross a road. It's about common sense. Motor vehicles are much larger and faster, and need to be slowed down/stopped for the safety of all other road users. Bikes are small, light and can stop very quickly indeed by comparison.

woppit - you're missing the point. You can't be given a fixed penalty notice for RLJing (contravening s36 of the RTA 1988) on a bicycle since a bicycle is not a 'vehicle' and the offence is only committed where a VEHICLE fails to comply with the traffic direction.

But a bylaw could be in place?

You cannot get points on your driving license for offences committed on a bike, British law requires that a punishment be able to be applied fairly to anyone who committed an offence. Therefore the punishment needs to apply to anyone who can ride a bike, not just those who can ride a bike and have a driving license.

The position here in Germany is different though, and some offences, ie cycling while drunk, can get you banned.

And speaking of fines; a £60 fine for using a mobile phone whilst driving seems to have had very little effect indeed, judging by the numbers of people (including police!) I've seen.

That's because it's very unlikely you'll get caught. Same as speeding really. Most people are happy to accept the relatively tiny risk of being seen by anyone who can penalise you for it.

jota180 - byelaw? I doubt it. I'm not aware of any byelaw that would have this effect. I stand by my analysis of the relevant legislation in my previous comments until someone can link to something proving me wrong. No fine and no points for RLJing on a bike.

But I still don't condone RLJing when on a bike.

Not an urban myth at all. One of my colleagues lost his licence and job because he got 3 points for jumping a red light on his bike. He already had 9 points on his licence from speeding, so was using the bike to commute as his insurance costs were horrific.

I just checked my driving licence and it only has motor vehicles on it and not a bicycle anywhere
As it is not a licence to drive said cycle [ and clearly you dont need one to ride a cycle on the road] i cannot see how they can give me points for this.

Whoppit I thought you had a Brompton - hence the comment

People, including those here, need to decide exactly what cyclists are.

If they share the *rights* to the road, they share the *responsibilities*. Stopping at a red light is one of those. Opting in and out moment by moment as it suits isn't on.

And not quite on thread, but: people who drive to work aren't selfish planet hating willful cyclist murderers and people who cycle to work aren't enlightened out the box thinking wonder-angels. People drive because they must, others cycle because they're *lucky* it worked out that they can. (I was just so lucky for ten years. And probably pretty smug about it too! 😆 )

[i] Stopping at a red light is one of those. Opting in and out moment by moment as it suits isn't on.[/i]

I agree.

Mr Woppit seems to have come around to this way of thinking, too.

Stopping at a red light is one of those. Opting in and out moment by moment as it suits isn't on.

I agree.

Mr Woppit seems to have come around to this way of thinking, too.

I also agree. But you still can't get fined or points for RLJing. Doesn't mean you should RLJ though.

People, including those here, need to decide exactly what cyclists are.

If they share the *rights* to the road, they share the *responsibilities*. Stopping at a red light is one of those. Opting in and out moment by moment as it suits isn't on.

I hear this a lot.

I'm against RLJing. I stop at every red. But I can understand why it happens, especially in situations where cyclists do it for their own safety (i.e to make themselves visible ahead of traffic where there isn't an ASL).

The whole pious [i]cyclists must obey the rules of the road[/i] is a bit rich when delivered by drivers 99% of whom, including me, will break the rules of the road on every single drive (RLJing and speeding for instance)

People drive because they must,

No they don't. Most drive because they are lazy. Simple as.
A few [i]need[/i] to drive. The majority don't.

RTA 1988 S.28 Dangerous Cycling and 29 Careles, and inconsiderate cycling.

RLJ = offence under the RTA = points on your licence

Whoppit I thought you had a Brompton - hence the comment

I do. I've just been attempting a five-day-a-week 40 miles per day commute to avoid the train fares, hence the new machine. It's going quite well, but I've developed an irritating tweak in my left knee so I'm going back to train/Brompton next week to give it a rest.

The only other problem has been getting knicked...