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There's an interesting theory going round that this was an excuse to drop Paine and that Alex Carey will come into side, potentially as captain.
Or the salvation of Steve Smith? Do agree it’s harsh on Paine.
With just over seven days to go, what are the thoughts of the resident STW cricket fans for The Ashes?
I'm not confident of England doing much to be honest. Yes, two day-night pink ball matches does play towards England's strengths, but the Aussies aren't totally clueless about swinging the ball and they don't have to move it as much as they are quicker through the air.
Carey is as good a keeper as Paine and there is no way Wade is good enough to keep to Lyon through a long test innings.
England's only recognised spinner is Leach and he has been tonked out of the attack too often for my liking. With Archer and Stone missing, only Wood has real wheels and he won't play more than three tests if England are trying to keep him fit.
Looking at the batting lineups I can't see many games lasting more than 4 days if weather doesn't intervene. Root and Smith are in a different class to the other batters on show, but Australia also have Labuschagne and a much shorter tail.
I hope covid doesn't bollocks the tour up.
Man of the series prediction - Josh Hazlewood.
Looking forward to it, but like you more in hope than expectation.
Different matter - this is an interesting proposition.
And in the long game, I'd like to see test series share the toss - toss before T1 and then alternate. In a 3 or 5 game series you still have the advantage for winning the spin but the chances of being tossed out of the series is reduced.
I like the idea of one coin toss for the series. Although it could lead to pressure on home groundsmen if you know that, in a month's time, the oppo will be batting first in the 4th test of a series!
TMS Ashes podcast was pretty depressing listening tbh. Weather is shite, quarantine rules getting tighter for family/friends and general restrictions getting tighter too. No preparation.
Chances of all games getting played without disruption seem pretty slim. Not sure what the situation is on crowds.
Hopefully things will pick up. Looking forward to Cummins as Captain but I don't like seeing Steve Smith as vice captain tbh. Not even because of cheating I just find him intensely irritating!
Difficult to see us doing well as the batting is too reliant on Root as usual.
Cummins as captain could be very interesting. He's already pretty handy with the bat, I wonder if the responsibility will turn him into a genuine all-rounder. He deserves it, by all accounts he is a brilliant competitor, hard but fair and he had a lot of injury problems when younger.
Smith as VC opens up the Cape Town issue again for me. The thing that bothers me about that incident is this:
If, as a quick bowler or group of quick bowlers, you are trying to make a ball reverse, you are on top of that ball conditioning effort like a fly on shit. There is no way you'd let anyone do anything to the ball without your say-so. But hey-ho, that is done now.
England rely on Root more than Australia rely on Smith. Australia have the better attack. I just hope the tour doesn't degenerate into a round Australia last minute covid cancellation trip. But I think it might.
I like the idea of one coin toss for the series. Although it could lead to pressure on home groundsmen if you know that, in a month’s time, the oppo will be batting first in the 4th test of a series!
That is a consideration. I'd suggest 'neutral groundsmen' - not completely, you need the local knowledge and manpower to prepare good tracks in local conditions, but with oversight by ICC to make sure that pitches are not being unduly doctored.
I like the idea of one coin toss for the series. Although it could lead to pressure on home groundsmen if you know that, in a month’s time, the oppo will be batting first in the 4th test of a series!
I don't think that is he proposal - it would be the captains would get alternating choices so if they chose to the opposition could elect to bowl first in the 4h if the ground looked like it had been prepared to last the full 5 days when you got there.
I think I'd like a system where the captain that lost the previous match automatically got the choice (with a previous draw meaning it switched from whoever chose last time). Might help to keep the losing team in the series in with a chance. Like snooker break offs I guess.
The runs handicap system feels a bit too contrived.
Yes, effectively the win of the toss alternates so the captains have alternating choice. But even then, if the toss has gone in a way that the home captain has choice in T4, then you order a raging green top safe in the knowledge you won't be batting first, and then ask for a road in T5 so that it's inevitably a draw, etc.
Hence you need the neutral groundsman to ensure good, fair, pitches are prepared.
The runs handicap feels a bit contrived
Not as contrived as the tournament in the example where chasing sides won 12/13. The tournament effectively became a toss the coin competition.
The handicap is only for single game T20's (poss 50 over) and it's essentially a 'negotiated' not a fixed handicap. The toss winner gets to choose what to do. But before they do, the losing tosser proposes a handicap for the less favoured option (in the example, the dew speeds up the pitch making it easier to bat on in the second innings). And then back to the winning tosser to decide.
So in example above, the losing tosser might suggest that the effect of the dew is worth 20 runs. So they propose a 20 run handicap. So the choice in front of the winning tosser is now between batting first and setting a target, or batting second and chasing the target plus 20.
It's very clever because you can't substantially over or under propose, otherwise the winning tosser will call your bluff. Same example above, if the proposer suggested say target plus 50 - then the winning tosser would just bat first and make you chase it
Looking forward to the Ashes, albeit, I can see some disruption on the horizon.
The Aussie's seem to have 3 decisions to make:
Who bats 5 - Head or Khawaja
Who keeps - Inglis or Carey
Who bowls - Starc or Richardson
England have similar choices:
Who bats 3 - Malan or Crawley
Who bats 5/6 - Bairstow or Pope
Who makes up the bowling unit
I personally think it'll be closer than we think, but the Aussie's should win it.
The Aussie choices:
Khawaja. Travis Head is one of these players who looks nailed on to score runs, but pretty much never delivers.
Carey. They need someone of some seniority in the job.
Starc. They can afford a luxury bowler given the rest of the attack. He creates rough for Lyon and he is an x factor bowler.
England's choices.
Malan. He's got more nous than Crawley.
Pope. He's the best prospect we have and an edge from Hard Hands Jonny never falls short of the cordon.
Bowling - first three seamers have to be Anderson, Broad and Wood, but age counts against the first two for a whole series and Wood is such a bust a gut bowler I don't think he can play five tests.
Anyone following India NZ? First game was a cracker - NZ taking a beating rn though.
10-fer
I personally think it’ll be closer than we think, but the Aussie’s should win it.
Hmm, I reckon we'll not win a single Test. Not saying we'll lose 5-0, but I have a feeling the Aussies will hit some form, especially when they're playing an England side that's been so bedraggled this calendar year. Hope I'm wrong.
It’s on BT sport 😣
Oh well, TMS is it then.
resting the worlds greatest swing bowler, better win the toss! 😉
England to bat.
Australia XI: Warner, Harris, Labuschagne, Smith, Head, Green, Carey (wk), Cummins (c), Starc, Lyon, Hazlewood.
England XI: Burns, Hameed, Malan, Root (c), Stokes, Pope, Buttler (wk), Woakes, Robinson, Wood, Leach.
Will watch the start. Fingers crossed 🤞
ffs!
hope this does turn into "Trent Bridge Revenge"
🙈🙈
That wicket is very green
Time for bed!
And so it begins... 🥺
Root didn't look comfortable from the moment he came to the crease.
20-3. Time for bed. Reckon the Aussies will have chased down our total by the time I get up for a pee in the night.
Well that could have been a lot worse after a dismal start!
147 is the maximum in snooker so there is that.
I woke at 01:00, turned on TMS, heard Zaltz say “Englands worst start”, turned it straight back off and went back to sleep without hearing the score.
Green pitch, gloomy conditions, rain around. Let’s leave our two best swing bowlers on the bench and bat first.
i'm not pretending it's a good start, but as one of my experienced captains always said, you can't judge a score or a pitch until both sides have batted on it.
Lets be positive.
Hameed looked good, and 25 in your first Ashes knock is not disastrous, particularly when the rest of the team has collapsed around you.
Pope looked good too, and if he fires we at least have some runs in the middle order, add Buttler to that comment too.
Finally, the pitch is a green top and we have in Chris Woakes one of the finest bowlers on that kind of pitch.
Anderson is injured, hence him being left out. But Broad’s omission is baffling, unless he has a niggle too?
Coukd have been worse after the start I guess and the non existent preparations. Pope. Butler and Hameed coped ok.
Rain for 3 days please
11:30pm start tonight then. Not a good start yesterday but let's see how our bowlers go. Don't forget Jimmy pulled up in the 1st Test in 2019 which I still believe cost us victory. They'll have been mindful of that considering the recent injuries to both Broad and Jimmy, especially coming in to the series so cold.
Smashed round the park? I swear that track is even greener
Decent start from Robinson/England so far but they need wickets asap.
Edit: Got one! Harris gone from Robinson's bowling.
arse!
Yup the no-ball wicket was a real gutter. England have bowled well could easily have a couple more wickets.
late wickets always welcome.
Seems those calling for Khawaja over Head my well be proved wrong…
staring down the barrel of an innings defeat, Stokes looks done already 🙁
staring down the barrel of an innings defeat, Stokes looks done already 🙁
Yep.
Leach hit out of the attacker, Stokes injured, it’s going to be a long few weeks.
The seamers bowled remarkably well. Warner should have been out 3 times at least.
Australia took every chance. We didn't.
To be fair to Leach, they have shown no faith in him all year. You can't then chuck him the ball when you are under the pump in an Ashes test and expect him to rescue you.
What really annoys me with this English team though is that they spend so much time worrying about the future that they forget to actually win any matches. We spent all summer not picking our best side because they wanted to have everyone at their best for the Ashes. Even when we get to the Ashes they don't pick the best side for the first test because they are worried about the second. How about just trying to win some bloody matches. Maybe it will become a habit.
Seems those calling for Khawaja over Head my well be proved wrong…
I was one of those. In this instance he has played a decent knock. Not a knock that makes you sit up and say "that's him in the middle order for the next five years", though. However, when batting at 6 you have to play the hand you're dealt with whatever partners you have.
England have been a distant second in all departments. Pretty sure the Aussies generated more nicks per 50 balls than England, they all carried and most were caught. England have also shelled catches and missed direct hit runouts. If I was Rory Burns I'd want it to puss down solidly for the next three days and get the first available flight out of Queensland.
England have been a distant second in all departments.
Second definitely but I dunno about distant. The Aussie Fox commentators kept going on about how lucky Australia had been to not lose more wickets early in their innings. England got the toss wrong, clearly.
Root is going really well right now (jinxed him, soz) - England now only 140 runs behind with 8 wickets in hand. Still think Australia will win the game and perhaps comfortably but it's not been the shellacking some have even making out.
I'm not even sure they got the toss wrong yet. It's a decent cricket pitch; bit for the bowlers early which England didn't deal with, turning flat through days 2-4 where if England had held catches, not no-balled Warner, Aus could have got 100 or more fewer runs. Then it might deteriorate later. A bit uneven, a bit of turn, Leach might have a role yet.
There's a long way to go but could be a lead and a run chase on day 5 if England's middle order can also do their thing, Buttler and Stokes setting up a total. They got the toss right, just haven't then (or yet) used that advantage.
Another point to consider. Even if this is lost, if we can make Australia bowl for 2 whole days, the next test is only a few days away, the attrition on bodies is not insignificant and we have Anderson and Broad in the shed and ready.
Regardless of what happens next this Root and Malan partnership has showed England aren't just here to make up the numbers/get pushed around. Really superb fightback.
Good point re tiring out the bowlers/fielders also.
I just can't help thinking there will be a collapse at some point tomorrow but I hope I'm wrong.
The Aussie Fox commentators kept going on about how lucky Australia had been to not lose more wickets early in their innings.
Warner dropped a fair few edges short of the slips. Maybe the pitch flattened out a bit, but even so....
Warner has a reputation as a hard-handed dasher, but actually he adapted very well early in the innings.
When you're outplayed in every department on days 1-2 you are struggling. Even though there has been a bit of resolve shown on day 3, England still need at least 3 sessions lost to rain in my estimation and given the last few years.
When you’re outplayed in every department on days 1-2 you are struggling
If England were outplayed in every department for two days then Australia ought to be in a much stronger position. As I said I still expect a collapse but England are now -60/2.
Did you actually watch day 2? England's bowlers were all over Australia for significant periods but Australia rode their luck massively. They capitalised on their luck so fair play to them, but I didn't see them outplaying anyone except maybe Leach.
You're employing post-hoc rationalisation based on the score not on the actual play.
England are going to have to make at least 500 to give themselves any sort of target to bowl at. they have been on the defensive since the first session.
The momentum is with England now. I don't think they'll try and win the match but a draw is a much better result for them. Hopefully they'll bat through day 4 and grind down the Aussie bowlers, it already looks like they might be a bowler down. If Root scores big in this match and Anderson and Broad come back in, Australia will be worried.
crap
FFS I’m off to bed.
It's the hope, etc..
Thought a collapse would be on the cards but not instantly. 😩
bloody Nora 🙁
Buttler and Stokes in already, jeepers.
I don't like cricket. I hate it.
Oh dear me. England failure of planning and execution. Australia successful planing and execution.
Not hopeful for this rest of the series
Should've gone to bed when the TV signal went down. Ironically that was the only period in which they didn't lose a wicket.
I didn't see one dismissal where I thought it was an unplayable delivery.
I didn’t see one dismissal where I thought it was an unplayable delivery.
The one Burns got was a snorter. Other than that I agree entirely.
So now Anderson and Broad come in and if it isn't 50-5 and hooping around corners, the pressure is on them.
The sad fact is, in Oz with the Kookaburra, their bowlers move the ball as much as ours and are 5-10mph quicker. Even with the 'new' Kookaburra. So England are behind from the off. It is difficult to underplay how much movement is enhanced by the threat of a rapid, steepling bouncer. Only Wood is quick enough for that, but he is gun-barrel straight.
Leach disappeared at 9 an over for an extended period. Lyon looked threatening and kept it fairly tight when he wasn't taking wickets. In Australian conditions a series XI would definitely contain Root and Stokes if fit. Other than that it would be 9 Aussies.
I can't see Robinson taking those two catches that Hazlewood took, either.
I'm also hating Lyon's straight on ball being called a doosra or arm ball. It is neither, it is an undercut offbreak that skids because it lands on the flat part of the ball not the seam.
Doosra is impossible to bowl with a legal action (Murali was a chucker, sorry to say) and the arm ball is a seam up outswinger pushed off of the index finger.
England to Bowl
Stokes fit to play and a lot of bowling for root
Better start moving around when sun sets
Good to hear Ian Chappell talking sense about England's tactics, ie play Ben Foakes at wicketkeeper, Jos Buttler has already dropped two and is now very negative in the runs department. He's not, and never will be, Adam Gilchrist.... He also questions England's use of bowlers especially Ben Stokes' role.
I've found England's selection and tactics to be absolutely baffling. I know we're not that strong, particularly the batting line up, but it feels like the team has an arm tied behind its back.
I wish someone would change Chappell’s batteries
FFS Buttler
Oh. Dear.
Why are we not picking Foakes? Buttler just doesn't bat well enough at test level to accept his keeping.
With England it's always trying to win something in the future. Resting players so they can be good next week/month etc. Today was about not letting the Aussies score in the first two sessions so they could take all the wickets in the final session. Except they didn't and they will end up batting after tea tomorrow. What chance another 150 all out against Australia's 450?
Joe - how about you try and win what's in front of you NOW?
What chance another 150 all out against
Bit optimistic on the number of runs there.
I think one of the Aussie commentators on TMS (can't remember who) made a similar point about England trying to be too cleaver. Just try to get the batsmen out and win the test.
5/0
Evening stickball fans. Another one of my silly questions. I thought when I checked the end of play feed earlier that two hundred and twenty something runs for a team that spent all day batting seemed very low. Is that normal for a first day innings, in that it’s going to be cagey after the early wicket loss? Or was it pitch dependent today?
Is that normal for a first day innings
It’s not super low, but it’s definitely not a big score. They’re going at 2.5 an over, in test cricket you’d expect it to be 3, maybe 3.5 on the first day.
England didn’t bowl badly, quite tight but didn’t get the wickets.
More down to England’s bowling really. They set negative fields and bowled negatively. Lots of short stuff that was unlikely to take a wicket but hard to score from. The idea was to restrict the scoring until they got to those last ten (or 9 as it turned out) overs under lights with the new ball when they hoped to take wickets. It didn’t happen of course and was just another example of England trying to be too clever rather than just trying to hit the top of off stump and get them out.
I guess it’s possible that they’ll take early wickets tomorrow, but it’s more likely that Australia will make them toil in the heat, score quickly in the second session then put England in under the lights and do what we failed to do; take wickets.