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but, really… using a foreign object, brought specifically on to the field of play, in an attempt to alter the condition of the ball in order to gain an advantage; that’s just effing BS and totally completely 100% indefensible.
To this can I add instructing* the junior player to actually do it, possibly because he's the one that least focus would be on.
* he could and should have told them to sod off, of course but the pressure that was potentially put on him, we might never really know. At least Smith had the honesty to say it was a senior player plan; Bancroft can't and won't accept censure but let's not condemn him absolutely until we really know what his role was in the debacle.
accept = escape
seems their 2nd innings is going quite well - maybe some of ours should try getting caught cheating
I was a little worried that since retiring KP might not know what to do with himself, It's OK he has an opinion!!
He has a point. Let’s be honest - this will hardly be the first & only time this has happened. Journos will now be scouring archives for more footage
how come england picked an allrounder who couldn't bowl ?
If you are talking Stokes I’d suggest his batting form alone gets him in the team - a genuine all-rounder.
This will be the sixth match in a row - including the entire Ashes - in which England have failed to take 20 wickets.
Winless and 9 defeats in there last 11 test matches probably 10 in 12 after today( I'm in NZ and off to watch) stretching back to October 2016. No answer to the opening partnership issue for three years, No potential replacements for the ageing Anderson and Broad No established No3 and No spinner who can actually turn the ball picked in the side. It's been great fun supporting English cricket recently.
But at least we don't cheat. Not all the time.
So, Qantas and other key sponsors considering their relationships with Cricket Australia. TV deal for cricket still to be agreed. This could be very expensive.
Obviously it’s fairly amusing to see the Aussies writhing. Well, it was until I heard Jim Maxwell crying on air. 🙁
to their credit I think CA will come down on Smith and his leadership group like a ton of bricks.
Brailsford, sorry Lehman, has also got to be in the firing line as this fairly clearly isn’t a one off.
rain required for england, 1 wicket for NZ
one wicket to go then we can all go back to laughing at the Aussies
all over
aggers having a dig at the aussies 🙂
So the high and mighty Aussies get caught cheating - lie about it, then come clean only when the evidence is overwhelming.
Not so long ago Mr. Chest-Puffed-Out-Warner was ripping into Faf Du Plessis for alleged ball-tampering (which may or may not have been absent minded). Giving it all the usual "we play right up to the line, but only once we cross the boundary and we never cheat and any opposing player is welcome to a beer in our dressing room" BS.
I have zero sympathy. Smith will be forced to step down. Warner will never be made captain.
I still want to know what Quinotn De Kock said about Warner's missus, though.
I'll wager it's the old double-standards again - Warner will claim to be mortally hurt and that De Kock has crossed a line whilst conveniently forgetting all the trash-talk and slobber he has come out with over the years.
Hoist by their own petard. Lovely.
[i]dannyh wrote:[/i]
Hoist by their own petard. Lovely.
Isn't it just. Assuming they continue to be part of the team, Smith and Warner will deservedly get heckled for the rest of their career wherever they go (I'm thinking Bancroft might be let off after a while). I expect also by the Aussie crowd for a while.
Regarding the trash talk, Australia already had no moral high ground after Lehman against Broad in 2013 (and any excuse of Broad being a "cheat" has now definitively gone, not that it was one at the time given the long list of batsmen who don't walk when clearly out - eg Clarke just to choose a random example)
Not so long ago Mr. Chest-Puffed-Out-Warner was ripping into Faf Du Plessis for alleged ball-tampering (which may or may not have been absent minded). Giving it all the usual “we play right up to the line, but only once we cross the boundary and we never cheat and any opposing player is welcome to a beer in our dressing room” BS.
This Warner? 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
its getting worse isn't it! tape on the fingers!
A small amount of sympathy for Cameron Bancroft - must be hard to say no to the likes of Smith and Warner if they ask you to do something like that.
As for Stevie and Davie, couldn't have happened to a nicer pair of fellas. 🙂
Do us a favour and take the delightful Lehmann down with you.
I thought their performance 2nd Innings showed just how effective 'mental disintegration' can be. Pity it was self-inflicted.
Do us a favour and take the delightful Lehmann down with you.
I once had the misfortune to spend an hour or so in a club pavilion bar with Lehmann holding court (he was a county teammate of a lad who had played at the club and they both pitched up one Saturday evening). Typical boorish Aussie ocker with some very un-PC views on a number of things. Not a nice bloke.
Thanks for posting that link @zokes, I followed some of the other articles and the Aussie press are going for blood! So good to see 😃
Bang n the money @dannyh, my sentiments and thoughts too.
It reinforces my thoughts from the last Ashes, where they were achieving reverse swing in home conditions and yet our quicks, who lets face it, are better proponents of reverse swing, couldn't get the ball to move in the air. I call Warner has been on this Since their drawn series with Bangladesh, where they were pretty ordinary IIRC.
The journos are having their fun with this - and there's a few good ones out there. I like this couple of paragraphs from a Grauniad article:
Similarly Darren Lehmann may or may not get away with the suggestion he had nothing to do with this. But he has overseen an infantilised team culture where such a plot was so easily conceived and where fear of being discovered by good old Boof was clearly not much of an issue. Nothing less than the sack will do for Lehmann. He should be profoundly embarrassed already, although past conduct suggests this may not be the case.
And this is the wider issue. Punishments to one side, there is no doubt the urge to pile in on Australia, to clutch at one’s pearls, to reach for the smelling salts has a lot to do with the attitude of this Aussie team, the unpleasant way it has presented itself over the last few years, all the while preaching about the imaginary “line” Australia alone is qualified to police. Pre-planned sledging routines, boorish pub-level insults, strutting physicality on the field: this has a corrosive effect on everyone concerned. These Australians have few friends in world cricket. They can hardly expect sympathy now.
Chuckle.
Can’t disagree though!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/43543713
Smith, Warner and Bancroft sent home - extensive (lol) investigation says the coaches knew nothing and can stay. Smells fishy
So, Smith, Warner and Bancroft sent home. Lehmann presumed innocent.
What about Cummings, Starc, Pattinson and all the other bowlers? I cannot believe they honestly thought and believed it was their awesome abilities and skills generating all that reverse swing?
Are CA going to bottle it? Apparently they're negotiating broadcasting rights at the moment, although I'm unable to see how a soft stance would help them here.
Jim Maxwell was on R5 saying that Warner was prime instigator and should be banned to play for Australia for life. Smith passed Warner and Bancroft talking about it and said 'I don't wasn to know what you're planning'. Apparently he didn't know the actual plan.
To me I thought it was odd how England struggled to reverse the ball in the Ashes compared to the Aussies. I guess the camera footage is now being checked?
Can't believe Uncle Fester is hanging on, given there are only two scenarios, one in which he is complicit, the other in which he is clueless.
Can’t believe Uncle Fester is hanging on, given there are only two scenarios, one in which he is complicit, the other in which he is clueless.
Could you please keep politics out of this thread?
🙂
Although Lehman’s use of the walkie-talkie might have been along the lines of “I don’t know what you’re doing but get rid of that NOW”, I suspect KP’s view is closer to the truth:
https://twitter.com/KP24/status/978692309771579394
Yeah right. It was all down to the bloke that got caught and the bloke no one likes. It wasn’t the leadership group after all and the radio palaver with Hanscombe didn’t really happen and the coach wasn’t aware and the bowlers didn’t realise and it never happened before....
Plausible deniability, taped up fingers and a return to normal service now the lawyers are involved. CA had now better hope that everyone sticks to the script they’ve been given. They’d also better hope that the hours and hours of banked footage that will be scrutinised now doesn’t pick anything else up.
The SMH is covering this very well: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/darren-lehmann-slips-through-as-cricket-australia-tightens-the-noose-20180328-p4z6lh.html
Cricket Australia's stance is just making it worse. Refusing to use the word 'cheating' and opting for "looking for an advantage" and never straying from media/PR bullshit speak "sharing the anger and the disappointment of the Australian cricket family" . Shameful
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They should void all the bowlers wickets tally from every match warner, smith and bancroft have played in. You can imagine the atmosphere in the dressing room 🙂
Rumours are that Smith and Warner will get a 12 month ban, no news on Bancroft though i think they're trying to play him as the innocent newbie being bullied by Warner. Tim Paine is the new skipper.
Think a 12 month ban for Warner, never to be picked again. 6 months for Smith which will be a cop out - 12 months will give him no time with the World Cup and Ashes and cricket Australia will not his reintegration at such a late stage to be an unwanted distraction.
It seems Smith kind of turned a blind eye to the tampering specifics although not sure why that means a lesser ban for a captain. Can’t see The coach lasting much longer although a complete lack of self awareness as with the others, may keep him in the job a bit longer.
Jim Maxwell was interviewed on Radio National this evening: apparently 12 month bans from all Australian cricket for Warner and Smith. No news on Bancroft.
I am starting to feel sorry for Smith though: they’re making him front the media in a hangar at Sydney the moment they touch down from Jo’berg. Not quite sure what publicly interrogating a no doubt very sleep deprived, jet lagged and utterly crushed man will do for anyone.
[i]lunge wrote:[/i]
Rumours are that Smith and Warner will get a 12 month ban, no news on Bancroft though i think they’re trying to play him as the innocent newbie being bullied by Warner. Tim Paine is the new skipper.
It's confirmed - not an official announcement yet, but you can usually rely on the accuracy of cricinfo stories. 9 months for Bancroft.
[i]Scamper wrote:[/i]
Can’t see The coach lasting much longer although a complete lack of self awareness as with the others, may keep him in the job a bit longer.
Exactly the sort of qualities you want from a coach. He might survive the immediate fallout as implausible as it seems that he had no knowledge when you review all the available evidence, but he's damned if he does damned if he doesn't - this happened on his watch.
Related but not, Paine has had a heck of a 6 months. just before the Ashes he couldn't get into his state team, now he's the captain of his country. That's some turnaround.
So who had a cheeky $100 on next Australian captain being Tim Paine?
I am starting to feel sorry for Smith though: they’re making him front the media in a hangar at Sydney the moment they touch down from Jo’berg. Not quite sure what publicly interrogating a no doubt very sleep deprived, jet lagged and utterly crushed man will do for anyone.
While enjoying his and Warner's discomfort, I think if I was still facing a year ban (from all cricket in Australia) for something which carries a match ban in ICC terms I wouldn't see the incentive to take part in a deflection exercise for CA.
TBH I'd be on the phone arranging my summer season in England. I'm sure plenty of counties would snap up pretty much the best batsman in the world.
IPL ban as well, that's a good few dollars out of their pockets.
Was starting to feel a little sorry for Smith, but having now read the charge sheet, no chance.
As for Warner he evidently tried to keep his head down on the pitch and post match.
I think it's the same link I posted earlier, but Smith and Warner also banned from the captaincy for 2 years - not that I'm sure what difference it will make, I can't see Warner ever getting anywhere near being captain now - he'll be lucky if he ever plays for Australia again - whilst it's as effective as he's been it's hard to see Smith being considered again either
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22939470/steven-smith-david-warner-banned-12-months-cricket-australiaand in other bad news for them they've also been dropped by the IPL
http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/22939978/david-warner-steven-smith-axed-ipl-2018
edit: oops - updating story, Warner banned for life from captaincy, Bancroft banned for another 12 months after his playing ban ends - again I can't see it making any difference, Bancroft might yet be captain but not for several years anyway
and more details:
It seems kind of tough on Smith - he's not instantly dislikeable in the way Warner is - but I agree with Scamper, looking at the charges it seems that as usual it's the cover up which gets you. How daft of him - I suspect he'd have escaped with lesser sanctions if he'd just fessed up properly in the first place.
Yup, I retract my sympathy. Quite literally a cheating, lying scumbag. Warner gets "house" by being a cheating, lying and manipulative scumbag.
All three banned from any domestic cricket beyond club level. I strongly suspect that if they try to subvert that punishment by playing first class matches overseas, the already slim chance they have of ever being able to wear that sodding floppy green headgear will completely evaporate.
I think the bans are fair. Amazed Lehmann is still there though.
All reports over here indicate he was trying to find out “what the **** is going on”. I accept he’s culpable for the team culture that led to this situation, but I can also accept that he had no direct knowledge of Warner’s actions
It seems kind of tough on Smith – he’s not instantly dislikable in the way Warner is
I know what you mean, it's taken years of polishing for my hatred of Smith to reach the level I have for him. And I don't know why, he is a brilliant player, and I can't put my finger on any specific incident that brings it to the level, but he is absolutely the most hate for any sportsman I can muster (so I'm delighted that he hopefully will never play the game seriously again)
Change of subject slightly. Went to see 'dear old thing' Blowers talk last night. His '78 Retired' tour to plug his book.
Really nice evening. Very interesting. He did two 50 min stints with a 20 minute break. He then came out to the foyer to sign anything you asked and chat away to the punters for as long as it took. Pretty impressive for a man of 78 to do 30+ dates like that pretty much in succession.
The first half was a retrospective of early TMS days, Brian Johnson, John Arlott etc. The famous 'leg over' commentary, streakers etc. The second half was more about Blowers more recent career.
Nice evening. Worth going if you have a venue near you that hasn't sold out!
Interesting reading Aussie social media about the bans. Consensus seems to be:
Smith - Very harsh, good guy, he'll be back after a year playing grade level.
Bancroft - Touch harsh but given he was the one caught then perhaps not unreasonable.
Warner - Double it. The guy is a bully and should never play again.
Lehmann - How the heck has he got away with this? Get him out.
That’s pretty much the long and short of it, Lunge. A spot of contrition and genuine remorse goes a long way towards forgiveness. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s captain again two years to the day if he can keep his form.
Warner on the other hand. He’s had it unless something spectacular happens.
Bancroft wasn’t all that anyway. Suspect if an opening slot pops up he may make a reappearance. He’s not instantly dislikable, just pretty dense.
Ah, and boof has fallen on his sword. Yeah. Not sure I’ll miss him.
One tragedy of this is that it’s made Clarke think he’s remotely relevant 😂
glad Lehmann has gone. Seemed strange to think how Australia could make it right in the eyes of cricket fans with him still in charge. A wise move. Plus he is a tw*t
@freester. Sounds like the same show as when I saw him at Edinburgh Fringe 5 years ago. Cant blame him for repeating those classics though!
[i]zokes wrote:[/i]
That’s pretty much the long and short of it, Lunge. A spot of contrition and genuine remorse goes a long way towards forgiveness. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s captain again two years to the day if he can keep his form.
I guess it's possible, but it depends on there not being somebody else who's stepped into the gap and done a good job of it. The interesting more immediate question is whether he can be selected for the World Cup and Ashes next year despite not having played any cricket apart from club cricket - I presume he will just be picked on the basis of past form as the batting suddenly looks a bit bare with him and Warner gone. Hardly ideal for him to have to come here to try and regain form, where the crowds won't give him any mercy at all!
In the same way Bancroft has the problem that somebody else might have made the spot his own - though with 2 openers spots now up for grabs there's a good chance that they won't both be taken and he does at least have the opportunity to play the second half of the domestic season.
I guess nobody's discussing Warner's chances of playing for Australia again?
...actually I suppose I'm forgetting that the IPL presumably comes after the end of the ban and before the WC - will Smith get bought for that next year?
Lehmann gone - good. He gave up any hope when he started whining about people being nasty to his team after his previous form about 'sending Broad home in tears'
In other matters:
@freester. Sounds like the same show as when I saw him at Edinburgh Fringe 5 years ago. Cant blame him for repeating those classics though!
Can't remember who the comedian is / was but had a very good section about every time he tours the crowd get restless if he does 'old' material; in some cases people even go and see him a couple of times on the same tour and then moan that he hasn't come up with 90 minutes of brand new material for each date of the tour rather than just each tour!
Whereas if you go to see a band and all they play is new stuff, they get moaned at and told to do the old favourites!
I'm pleased Lehmann is off too, he has presided over the whole team culture and more than likely instigated and encouraged the more aggressive attitude and behaviour that we have all witnessed over the last couple of years.
Id still like to see their senior bowlers being taken to task, although if they are delusional enough to think they had just got some magical gift, like Billy's Boots, then perhaps that's punishment enough?!
Vince recalled. Any guesses on how he will get out?
I'll go for quickly. Majestic cover drive, yet hopelessly mistimed and it's snaffled by 3rd slip.
Especially as Cook is unfortunately back in the pavilion with under 5 overs played.
Lbw this time, for a bit of variety. I note that Woakes has more test 50s...
17-4! 10 overs.
3 for broad; 1 for anderson; wood must be fancying this - if he gets a chance.
And back to the Aussies temporarily: David Warner has just done his sorry/not sorry. All just seems a little apologetic for being caught. Also interesting that the question of “who else knew?” still isn’t going away.
Zokes - that was hugely unconvincing.
Reporters limited to one question each; Warner blubbing was unconvincing; did not answer any question directly - just followed the media training instructions.....loud deep breaths, blub, sound contrite, apologise to everyone.....wife, children, every australian living or dead, south africa, nelson mandela and repeat ad nauseam.
A thoroughly unconvincing performance and unbelievable in the sense that I cannot believe it - nor will anyone else when they hear it.
Yup, that pretty much echoes the first comment made when news24 cut back to the studio here. Nobody is buying it.
So where will the first crack appear? Can't imagine the Aussie media letting go easily so Bancroft, Smith & Warner can expect to be door-stepped and pushed at every opportunity. I would never have tipped Warner as someone who would cry in public - unless it was in his long arm interest; cynical? Nah not me Bruce........
I managed to catch Bairstow making his century last night. What a lovely looking ground they are playing at. Anyone been?
Great Test match this. Trying to keep reminding myself of what a brilliant sport it is in light of all of the cheating Aussie stuff.
Re: Warner; the press aren’t letting up on him.
I think the only reason he’s not spilled the beans is his own self-interest in the hope that he might play for Australia again (or at least earn megabucks in the IPL).
Although whilst the press are still digging into him, it’s worth noting that the shallow locals have now returned to their one-eyedness, judging by the defensive nature of the Facebook comments on that article.
Feeling rather chuffed today, Victor read my tweet put last night. its the little things in life sometimes.
David Warner discovers that acting like a **** for years leads to him not having many mates. Ahhhh, bless. Tough titty.
Give it a few days and his agent will try to get the ‘just an honest, but easily led, guy from the wrong side of the tracks’ line in again.
Truth is, he’s such a monumental bellend that no one wants to play in a team with him and are more than willing to let him be the one that gets pushed off the end of the plank.
Or maybe his agent just told him he’d better get his crying boots on. Smith and Lehmann both had a blub-a-thon, so Warner had to follow suit or he’d look bad. Pretty undignified stuff for a nation that prides itself on its fortitude.
I'm thinking he might have been better off leaving out the bit about playing for his country again, or at least to have remembered to switch off the tears for that bit - it's hard to avoid thinking that's what he cares about most (I'll allow that he also cares about his family, so it's not quite the only thing).
It goes on.... https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/more-turmoil-likely-as-banished-trio-consider-legal-options-20180331-p4z78k.html
I can’t imagine CA being too thrilled about the prospect of “who knew what when” being discussed publicly under oath!
I have to say I’m developing a bit of respect for Smith. Maybe I’m going native down here, or perhaps it’s just refreshing to see a high profile public figure accept responsibility for their actions, which sadly is s very rare act these days.
He could easily have wriggled out and gone down the appeal route and taken the whole lot down with him. He comes out of this better than DL who seemed to miss that being the boss meant not knowing was as bad as knowing. Warner has been quiet, his age is a bigger factor there - the years to earn after his ban are reduced and he is the most tainted of the lot. He will almost certainly not be making it into commentary or endorsements.
You two have gone native. Not sure what you are respecting or admiring here. he is doing what he has been advised to do [ and possibly agreed behind doors] to make sure he returns to the fold at a later date. Its just paying the long game
Seems like everyone is happy to burn Warner in the process. but that is just because of the type of person he is. Not even sure the Aussies loved him
Warner has been quiet
Reportedly he’s been lawyering up. Can’t see that getting him far now Smith and Bancroft have set the president that by accepting their sanction they believe it fair punishment. Which is a shame 😂