My dear old things, it's STW TMS!

Looked ok when I left the radio in the car, now at my desk it's a disaster (again).

<sigh> so now they're into that tail I mentioned. I think Ali currently counts as "tail".

[quote=zokes ]Most of the locals I speak to are still scared of Broad with the bat

They've not seen him bat much recently. I'd like to think his most recent knock showed a turn around, but he was still mostly just throwing the bat and got lucky. He's a long way from the batsman he was when he could justify a number 8 berth - he looks a couple of places too high at 9 based on other recent form! (yeah I know you said that already, just agreeing)

However, you put an 'ideal' lineup of:
1) Cook
2) Stoneman
3) Vince / Malan
4) Root
5) Stokes
6) Bairstow
7) Ali
8 ) Toby RJ / Woakes / Overton
9) Wood
10) Broad
11) Anderson

I should think the ideal line up would include both Vince and Malan (if you're choosing only one, then on current form there's no contest, TBH we're still looking for a solid number 3), with Stokes and Bairstow batting 6/7. I'm not sure we need 4 other quicks with Stokes in the side. Ali drops to 8, which however much he might prefer batting higher is probably where he's batted best.

To be honest, unless we’re somewhere where spin is imperative, I’d drop Ali and keep Vince and Malan. He’d do well terrorising the club level to get his mojo back before a bout of F.C. to earn his place back.

My reasoning for this is that Wood has to be picked given his speed. Stokes has to be for both ball and bat. But, whilst I’m assuming Broad’s star is back on the rise, and Anderson continues to be the first name on the team sheet, we need a slot for the next crew. TRJ was very unfortunate not to be fit, and Woakes and Overton, if a little unspectacular have worked bloody hard and taken some key wickets.

Vince will always sell his wicket cheaply IMO. I'd play Foakes as keeper and move Bairstow up the order. Malan is promising and Stoneman deserves a bit longer. TRJ would probably come back in when fit, in English conditions anyway. Moeen needs to rediscover his mojo. Pick Crane where conditions permit.

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Stokes
Foakes
Woakes
Broad
TRJ
Anderson

What's not to love about Stokes, Foakes and Woakes?

Nah beat them at their own games...
Smith
Warner
Smith
Warner
Smith
Smith
Bairstow
Starc
Starc
Starc
Lyon

Stokes, Foakes and Woakes?

Almost as good as “Lilley, bowled Willey, caught Dilley”

Though I preferred “the batsman’s Holding, the bowler’s Willey”

Stoneman - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Vince - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

Root - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

England on this tour - aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

It's the hope that really gets you in the end, though.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

[img] [/img]

the trouble with England is they play English conditions test cricket everywhere..... doesn't matter if we only get 300 as long as we get them quickly Anderson will bowl 'em out for 200 with the ball hooping about all over the place (we've seen them struggle in the UK in good conditions too). The kookaburra ball doesn't swing as much so you need at least 500 if not more to win batting first and a good spinner.

^^Gatting has let himself go a bit. ^^

It will soon be over, will miss TMS but just want the tests to end

We have one dayers to go, T20 and then some tests in NZ....

[quote=zokes ]My reasoning for this is that Wood has to be picked given his speed. Stokes has to be for both ball and bat. But, whilst I’m assuming Broad’s star is back on the rise, and Anderson continues to be the first name on the team sheet, we need a slot for the next crew. TRJ was very unfortunate not to be fit, and Woakes and Overton, if a little unspectacular have worked bloody hard and taken some key wickets.

I think Wood hasn't been picked because of his perceived fragility and lack of suitability to the longer form of the game - he didn't play much FC cricket last season. I suppose your 5 pace bowler attack does allow you to play a luxury bowler though. Just not sure given recent form that we can afford that luxury when we desperately need to shore up the batting. At least with proper batsmen to 7 (assuming Stokes counts as that rather than just an impact player), Ali at 8 and a number 8 at 9 we can afford to have a few failures - otherwise we're reliant on Ali firing in most matches, whoever is at 8 being more reliable and Broad chipping in more often than he does.

Almost as good as “Lilley, bowled Willey, caught Dilley”

Though I preferred “the batsman’s Holding, the bowler’s Willey”

The former is the other way round, catcher Willey. The latter sadly is a myth.

I personally think that in the days of more 20/20 and proposals for 4 days tests , we should cherish every chance we get to watch Test Cricket.

However its not easy saying that right now after recent showings in Aus!

We have one dayers to go, T20 and then some tests in NZ....

Not interested in the Mickey Mouse, so irrelevant.

Sadly, going to NZ could well paper over some cracks as the wickets are usually pretty puddingy over there.

The latter sadly is a myth.

I bet you’re fun at parties

all of us like cricket and cycling, I don't think we are the life and soul of any social gathering 😀

I still prefer '....standing at slip with his legs apart, hoping for a tickle'

Oh well, Malan gone to a corking catch.

Eng will be lucky to make 300 at this rate.

Well that didn't take long... Ali wafting at stuff, maybe Broad needs to come in then...320-330 will make it tough for England, don't think they will get there, though at least Starc is slowing down

Garry seems to have Ali dancing on the end of a string. Ali just seems to have completely lost any ability to pick the spin.

Paine and Smith are utter shite heads. Trying to get Curran out after having his bat grounded and after the over was obviously completed. Utter pricks.

Curran currently outscoring Ali, he is playing fairly well there with the exception of the last short ball.

Curran seems to have decided that as long as he dosn't walk past one, it doesn't matter how it's spinning if he slogs it on the half volley 😆

Is Monty the Aussie's catching coach?

2 Dropped in 2 overs...

That 2nd one looked even worse in the replays

Limp from Ali

So what can these 2 do, given Lyon hasn't had one yet quicks will still be king today. I think Warne has lost his bet with Broad getting 100 for the series

I've just been reading how Joe Root as a captain thinks tactically he's been quite good! ???? and he seems optimistic about winning in Sydney. I realise of course that he is only one part of many moving ones but he is the captain and his team haven't taken 20 wickets once all summer, First innings they've averaged 356 and second it's been 215 (Australia 20wkts x 3, 1st Inns - 439 2nd Inns-191, didn't need to be more as Englands scores were so poor). Only positive for me this summer so far has been the emergence/competence of Dawid Malan.

SHOT! from Curran

EDIT: ....and from Broad

Well positives,
Broad has his Mojo back with the Bat
Curran looks like a very useful player
Malan, Stoneman & Vince have all shown the makings of Test batsmen

I hope these new guys get a solid chance to form the backbone of the next Ashes side.
Another 6 from Broad there, finding some gaps and smacking them, if they can run this up past 350 it will be a huge rescue job.

Yeah, Root has been fairly inept in his tactics. I still agree with his decision to bowl first in Adelaide as it had Trent Bridge 2015 written all over it. Given how poorly we batted when conditions improved, we could have been out for less than 100 on that first day. But, that's about it. Fielding and bowling choices questionable. should have declared in Melbourne. Should have had a mechanism in place to get Curran out as night watchman with fewer than three overs remaining. Personally, his own shot selection and concentration have been poor also.

He has a lot of talent with the bat, but if Warner can manage to convert from being a T20 slogger to being a very good test opener, i'm pretty sure Root, who is technically superior and an out and out test player should be able to build the mental aptitude consolidate centuries..

Balls.

Curran, joint 3rd best score for England there - unless Jimmy and Broad get going, time to see what Crane is about with the bat.

zokes - Still not a customer
Yeah, Root has been fairly inept in his tactics

So if Ben Stokes does come back into the side at some point how do you fit him in?
For me it would be to replace Woakes. I agree that Curran has looked impressive in quite hostile conditions. Does he eventually replace either Anderson/Broad? Do you stick with Vince? he has many detractors and not many big scores. Do you persevere with Ali or hang your hat on Mason Crane as the future? I say this because 2 years ago the Australians weren't at all convinced with Nathan Lyon and now he's one of the first names on the team sheet.
Do we as fans just satisfy ourselves with home victories more often than not (like India)
As usual for England, More questions than answers,

For me Ali either needs to be back playing county or with England A at this point. In this team Stokes for Ali no questions asked, Crane needs a go with the ball to see how he stacks up. You could also juggle around and have Stokes replacing Vince really just up at 6/7 moving the rest up.
The 80 Runs from Broad and Curran might mean this game ends up on day 4....

Have to agree with the more rational end of C9WWOS here that the Aussies are giving a hard time all the way through giving no chances.

and 346 all out, Anderson trying to get the hell out of there to get Run out.
Much better than when Broad came to the crease.

[quote=mikewsmith ]Malan, Stoneman & Vince have all shown the makings of Test batsmen

Malan has probably already guaranteed his place to at least the end of the summer, if not on the next winter tour. Stoneman shows signs of being a Test batsman (especially given it's tough at the top and so many others have failed there). However Vince only looks like a Test batsman. Until he gets out flashing at a ball wide outside off having scored 20 that is.

Given he's not converting to 100s at 4 (sure he's racking up the 50s and the runs again, but you feel he could do so much better), maybe it's time to try Root at 3 again?

Another 6 from Broad there, finding some gaps and smacking them, if they can run this up past 350 it will be a huge rescue job.

It would have been, and still a good effort by the tail, but they didn't quite make it, and I can see Smith making the England total look puny. I suppose he's got to fail sometime though, right?

I suppose he's got to fail sometime though, right?

We could spike his lunch with picolax, but I think that’s the only plan with any certainty of success

So, here we go... 1/1

Good to see Bancroft gone early but he was never the danger man, Khawaja looks unsettled and leaving the bulk of the scoring to Warner.

But... apart from the half hearted LBW shouts and the edge that didn't carry it's not doing enough to challenge them - as warner nearly clips one to Bairstow

Yup, good to get Warner out. Him or Smith on their own are a handful enough, having the pair of them at the crease makes it very hard work.

Do the Aussies have anyone else other than Usi at three? He only ever seems to score big when they're not under pressure.

Smith batted 3 in India earlier this year with both Marsh's and Handscombe in the team. Smith at 3 seems a lot more daunting than Usi there but it does leave him open to being in too early if something like this happens.

What do you suppose it is about the ECB set up / expectancy of our test captaincy? Okay, so Cook managed to hold on to most of his form when he became skipper, but we can go back to Botham, Flintoff and now Root, whereby all their natural talent is stripped away from them as soon as they become captain of the test team.

Do other countries have this issue? Certainly not with the likes of Smith and Kholi, even MS Dhoni continued in his rich vein whilst captaining India. Alright, it's not an absolute, but when Root was selected to be captain, my heart droid sink a bit as the tendency to score next to **** all looked on.

Happy to be proved incorrect with stats, but sometimes, it's not about the best player, who makes the best captain, S Waugh being a prime example. I'm sure there are many examples of fine English cricketers who became the test captain and continued to either score big or take wickets, but, unless we go back to the mid C20th, none are springing to my mind.

Well, KP's average during his short captaincy was 52.5 (whilst we won 1, drew one, and lost one away to SA and India), vs 50.8 for the rest of 2008. Not sure that really counts though!

I'm sure there are many examples of fine English cricketers who became the test captain and continued to either score big or take wickets

Without checking the stats, Gooch, Atherton, Hussein and Strauss held up pretty well didn't they?

Not the slightest hint of a wicket this morning. Aussies to finish the day on 475 with Eng losing cheap wickets before the end of play.

Doesn't seem to be heading any other way. Smith managing to somehow still hit it well whilst being knocked off his feet by a Broad delivery.

Do we not train debutants where the line of the popping crease is?!?

On the plus side, Mason Crane appears to have quite excited the Aussie commentators, they seem to be pleasantly surprised by both his bowling and his ticker.

and the faint hope of a wicket overturned on review...
Going to be a long day, forecast 42c tomorrow going to be grim out there

And usi has gone, not seen it but assumed he just got bored and wanted to go back inside for a bit

Nice ball actually - dragged him out wider than he thought he was going then ball through the gate for a stumping. Crane is quite good fun to watch bowl, I just wish Root would set a more aggressive field for him. There have been a couple that would have been caught had we had more close in fielders.

The locals do seem to rate him fairly well there, he seems to at least be a bit of a handful which is promising.

So the real question isn't will S Marsh get his 100 tonight but will Mitch...

Well as the day draws to a close here there is a hint of delirious in the Tms box, Australia will March on and as somebody quipped winning the toss won't help England avoid batting last. Lyon will rip them apart.

But it's been an awesome day for charity with $800,000 raised so far this test so please all dig deep and donate
https://www.pinktest.com.au
Glen has been on TMN and the TV talking about the cause and the fund raising so a bit more will help them.

I've figured out who Tom Curran is impersonating with his bowling.

The run up is Dominic Cork, elbows jutting, looking like someone running through deep mud. The action is Andre Nel, but without the pace.

I can't see him being an integral part of the Test side for long, unfortunately.

No, sadly he seems to be just a bit too slow at this level. Might be good as an injury replacement on a pitch that suits, but definitely seems to be lacking penetration here.

But then that latter point nearly applies to all of them.

This no pace in the English bowler lineup business......because apparently we don't breed them. Not sure I understand the logic - West indies scarey quicks didn't seem to struggle to be effective in English conditions in the 1980s. Just because English conditions also favour swing does not mean we can't grow our own proper fasts too surely. And with central contracts and all surely you could see potential in youthful very fast fast medium and pay them to spend their time getting even faster rather than pounding themselves to death on the county circuit..

Just turned the telly on. Now 517/4. FFS.

Convert - mark wood is the obvious example to disprove your comment but I accept that his fitness has a big ? over it.
Australian climate and weather conditions, in general, favour speed over swing/seam. English conditions favour swing/seam over outright speed; I accept that Windies, Lillee, Thommo had great success in england but since their days there has been an increased tendency for groundsmen/keepers to produce wickets which reward the national team skillset so....Australia - flat, dry; England - slightly green.
Spinners, on the other hand, if they're good enough will pick up wickets irrespective of the surface.
It almost suggests two different teams - one for home and some significant changes for away.

All out for less than 100?

One reason the WI quicks didn't struggle was that there was no punishment for bowling 12 overs an hour in the 80s. Don't get me wrong, they were amazing bowlers, but if you'd increased their workload by around 15-20% per hour.......

Then maybe they'd have bowled us out quicker. Or maybe they'd have struggled more.

What we wouldn't give for a raw young bowler like Harmison now........

[quote=dannyh ]What we wouldn't give for a raw young bowler like Harmison now........

We have a 90mph 25yo bowler. The trouble is he's not up to bowling more than 24 balls a day.

Slight advantage Aus

Hopefully not; score seems par.

Winning here at that score sets a record, Roy is doing well

Anyone watching?

Nope, listening though. First time this winter I've considered paying for BT Sport.

Worth it I think, this series could be close, it's a different style and confidence there. Good that it's not just the test team with a few extras

Not able to watch but have been listening and feeling slightly aggrieved that international cricket on TV here in the U.K. resides behind a paywall that I find morally and ethically wrong.

Live and free (I do get it online with my phone contract) or you can pay for a year pass. There is bbl live nearly every night here too

The main thing getting it going is Englands running is very aggressive worth watching

Certainly not the same mind-set as the test team! It's been very entertaining to listen to.

Plenty of space in the MCG tonight now

Looking at the scorecard, Moeen must have bowled really well? I was obviously sleeping during the con's innings 🙂

Can definitely hear the barmy army though!

The aussies all seem to have coordinated their fancy dress costumes and have come as empty plastic seats 😆

I think Roy got bored...

Or his finger hurt, Morgan on for the winning runs or a collapse for 30

zokes - Still not a customer
The aussies all seem to have coordinated their fancy dress costumes and have come as empty plastic seats

😆

Well, Root's there and has now made his requisite 50, so I'm betting on the latter

Hmmmm