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Make that 3 left...
Well 46 up and 2 left, will cook go all the way through?
What a knock from Alastair Cook there, I know I was suggesting dropping him back to 3 but this was the change he needed and he looks like he can keep going. Lead up to 86 now and every run is important here to put some pressure on the Aussie batsmen. It's a pitch you can get in and out on it seems.
I hope some people are turning this on for a watch up there, a smiling Stuart Broard getting bat on ball very well now.
Woke up to cook on 150 then 197. Great stuff and he has prolonged his England career here now. Just hope we surpass 100 lead
244 not out....
Handshakes from all the Aussies as cook leaves at the close. Such a great day to watch here with cook being superb.
Great to see board smiling out there too. Tick it over for 500 and cooks 250? Making them head back out to bowl for 10 overs could be fun.
Cook at his best. As I said yesterday, as any batsman but especially an opener, getting in and set is the hard bit. Once you're in don't do what Root did (again!) and get out for a perky 60-odd, make it count properly.
Go out again tomorrow, and instruct Jimmy to slog everything, might be worth another 20 and get Cook to carry his bat - no-one's done that before in Australia I think.
It's never been done at the MCG but as I went with TMS today the last Englishman to carry is bat was a certain Mr Boycott who was out on 99 in that game.... He didn't go on about it much
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cricketers_who_have_carried_the_bat_in_international_cricket#Tests
good spot.....
I bet he didn't mention who it was batted at 10 / 11 and left him stranded either.
The story was told in full at a resonable level of agitation... definitely one removed from the Christmas card list 🙂
I nearly had to brave Chanel 9 and risk KP and Warne in the same commentary box
any idea what time / what partnership was on, will try to find on TMS iplayer
Looks like I didn’t miss much after tea then......
Bit after tea I think
What a day for me to spend on the beach. Typical!
Oh well, sun tan topped up, interesting ales imbibed, leafy sea dragon and sting ray sighted, and glances at cricinfo kept me smiling. Are there highlights on any of the UK terrestrial channels?
There are free highlights via the BTsport website after 7PM UK time
Thinking back on the whole Moeen Ali as England's best spinner thing.
Who was the last great English spinner (with the exception of Swann)?
I can't think of anyone post-Laker.
Lock and Wardle were contemporaries of Laker and had issues with chucking and authority respectively.
Underwood doesn't count - he wasn't a spinner.
Edmonds and Emburey did the biz for a good period of time, so they definitely have to be considered 'good'.
Tuffers was always overrated for me - overly obsessed with flight, to the point of not actually spinning the ball at all. Yes, we all* loved the antics, but occasionally taking a five-for against the Aussies in a dead rubber doesn't reall do it for me.
*Not sure Athers would agree.
The Wheelie Bin was the definitive expression of the Hussain-Fletcher era - an acknowledgement of our dearth of spinners and effectively a way of inking fifteen overs, no maidens, none for forty into the scorebook. I would have preferred the two teams to come to an agreement over trading runs for overs and not had to have watch over after over bowled outside leg stump. In his defence, when he was allowed some personality, he could produce some really nice bowling. Be he certainly wasn't a 'great'.
Monty! Alas, poor Monty. Probably the best prospect we've had. Absolutely ripped it, at a lively pace and drift through the air. The coaches did good with him and toned down the silly hip swivel in his action. Unfortunately he had zero to offer in any other aspect of the game and was doomed to be the 'specialist' who played in India and at the SCG only. Plus marks for having a wee off of a balcony onto some bouncers, though.
In other news - isn't cricket a great game!
I've been proved totally and utterly wrong by Steve Smith, Nathan Lyon and Shaun Marsh, pretty much right by Cook (came good in the end), Broad and Anderson (reduced to buying or boring out their wickets most of the time).
The worrying thing for me is who is knocking down the door to get into this England team?
Look at those on the periphery - only Mark Wood could be considered exciting and he might just well go down the same path that the other short-run explosive bowler (Simon Jones) went down.
Thinking of the others:
Craig Overton - really good gusto and performances, but I just can't see him being a world-beater.
Toby Roland-Jones - I cannot see any difference between him and Overton.
Gary Balance - I don't think so.
Tom Westley - all us leg-side lennies love seeing someone whip everything through mid wicket, but John Crawley did that and it didn't take international bowlers five minutes to work him out either.
Thanks Danny, I like your analysis. The "who next" question seems to be quite a vexed issue. But that said, the three new batters have all had their moments and could grow into their roles. Overton I agree will never be a Jimmy (but also note Jimmy's earlier performances- expensive and relatively unimpressive), but he might make a decent 4th seamer, particularly in conditions that suit. Whilst being cautious about picking a bowler for their batting, he seems fairly sound and capable of holding up an end, which shouldn't be sniffed at.
I think we have to accept that any new player will take time to grow into their shirt. Plenty will fail, but a few won't. the spinner position does seem quite intractable sadly.
Just seen that "catch" that got Broad out. The crims really are dirty cheating bastards 👿
Well that was a damp squib
Carried his bat though
*ripples*
That didn't last long.
Cook carries his bat; Anderson having a swish.
Lets see if the overhead conditions will help Anderson & Broad - here's hoping.
Yup, slightly amusing, but never mind. At least Bird went wicketless after all that whinging earlier 😆
I’m not staying up until 5 again today!
TMS in one ear, Live tv on the laptop and some work to try and get done, I hope I see England batting today.
I think we've finally found someone who is worse at DRS that Watto. The entire England team 🙄
Who was the last great English spinner
DRS has completely changed how spinners get their wickets, Swann was the first to really benefit, especially for LBWs, plenty of spinners in the past probably would have had far better figures if DRS had existed in their time.
I'd say the new guys will make their way in, you can't tell until you try them at this level. The new batsmen have impressed and Curran is doing OK with the ball for a debut.
Ali may do a better spinners job elsewhere but he isn't going to do it here, will see if he has to bat again if he can get something between the 2 styles shown so far.
[quote=zokes ]Just seen that "catch" that got Broad out. The crims really are dirty cheating bastards
+1 - that was shocking - TBH it was a shocking decision by the 3rd umpire, the last angle they showed you could clearly see the ball touching the ground.
Anyway, Broad didn't even hit it 😉
The umpires seem to be getting worse. All those incorrect LBW descisions overturned in Adelaide, that "catch" and the two inside edge "LBWs" here, no to mention Curran's no ball. What are the standing umpires actually for other than to hold the bowler's cap and glasses?
And surely if the whole idea of the tech is to ensure the correct descision is reached, why can't they ask the question about LBW themselves?
And rain stops play... For the 2nd or 3rd match now?
Shame as the scoring was well tied up, hopefully the bowlers will like the rest up and come out fresh and fierce again. I'd say wickets will equal runs out there, we see neither and we get a draw unfortunately
Meh, it'll rumble on to a draw, and Lyon, the most overran underrated bowler in history will get ten-fer in SYD, and rightfully they'll crow about a near whitewash.
Some knock by Cookie. Highest individual and overall innings score in which a batsman has carried. Longest knock in terms of time as well.
Shame it does seem to be heading for a draw but at least some pride is salvaged.
Hats off to Broad as well. Entertaining knock to back up some good bowling.
To be fair, Broads knock was rubbish - all top edges & mishits! Amusing to watch & very useful for us. But not good.
Broad cannot complain any time he gets given out wrongly.
Karma - and despite being an England supporter I am happy that this particular chicken has come back to roost. Lots of people winked and laughed at Broad hitting the cover off the ball and not walking - for me he actually brought the game into disrepute.
In any case, surely it is in his interests to get given out ASAP? It just means less opportunity for him to make himself look like a coward and/or get hurt in the process. The yellow streak down his back is so wide and bright its a wonder he isn't a banana.
Broad is hardly alone in not walking
IMHO hitting it and walking for LBW is a far worse crime
If top order batsmen can't tell they've hit it how can Broad be expected to know.
Broad cannot complain any time he gets given out wrongly.
The person who made most fuss about Broad not walking, Clarke, knocked the cover off it in Adelaide in 2010 off KP's bowling. He reviewed the umpire's decision, and then did an awful lot of swearing when the big screen showed just how much he hit it. As Junkyard says, very few Aussies walk, so it's not as if they have any grounds to complain.
Claiming catches you clearly dropped like Usi did is a new low for me. Well, that and the standard of umpiring, which is by now starting to make Billy Bowden and Darryl Hair seem competent.
It just means less opportunity for him to make himself look like a coward and/or get hurt in the process. The yellow streak down his back is so wide and bright its a wonder he isn't a banana.
Alright mate, let's see you stand there and get peppered with a combination of 90+ mph bouncers and toe crushers. 🙄
So much to say.
Usman's catch - I'm going to defend here, I thought he'd initially claimed it but then signalled he wasn't sure. It was a brilliant catch, that bounced out and under him before he got it back in his hands. I don't think he knew one way or the other, the umpires on field gave a soft signal out (maybe on his word that he thought he'd caught it) and then the third umpire has to have a clear reason to overturn, which there wasn't.
As for Broad or Smith.... bowlers bowl, batters bat, umpires umpire. These were the early days of DRS, which was brought in remember to overturn clear errors, not for the 'maybes' that we now see and which would have clearly given Broad if the Aussies hadn't burnt previous reviews on wrong'uns. By the same token when you are given out and you know you shouldn't be, if you accept that you're in the umpire's hands for then, then why not the same when you get a let off. It might have been blatant but he was within his rights. As was Clarke to review his, although clearly he's a dreadful judge and made himself look a nob when he then chuntered on about it.
It seems to be offering the possibility of being interesting...
Yeah we will see, it's a big ask to get through all of them by tea.
Hmmm. I did sort of jinx that didn't I...
Unimpressive
Yep they don't need to get any runs and don't want to get out, stalemate situation there, I wonder if there will be a point that smith fancies the chance of 5-0 and declares
Well that was the up and down test, some of the best and worst bits there, in the end the pitch won as they said hopefully we get some of England's best spinners out there, Swann is out here in the commentary box
Meh. Sensible enough descision in the end. Nobody was winning from there. The pitch, and to some extent the rain, beat everyone.
[quote=theotherjonv ]Usman's catch - I'm going to defend here, I thought he'd initially claimed it but then signalled he wasn't sure. It was a brilliant catch, that bounced out and under him before he got it back in his hands. I don't think he knew one way or the other, the umpires on field gave a soft signal out (maybe on his word that he thought he'd caught it) and then the third umpire has to have a clear reason to overturn, which there wasn't.
3:20 in http://sport.bt.com/video/broad-dismissed-in-controversial-circumstances-91364239670259 - it's not when the ball initially bounced out, he actually got it back in his hand before it touched the ground, but as he rolls over the ball his hand quite clearly rolls so that it isn't under the ball as his body presses down on it. I can't see how there is any doubt the ball has grounded. Though the main problem clearly comes from the on field umpire giving a soft out signal when there is no way he could be sure.
As for Broad not walking, the only difference from what lots of other players have done is that it was more obvious to everybody else that he'd hit it. Clarke et al haven't walked when they've known they've hit it - IMHO that's actually more blatant cheating when the fielding team is guessing whether to use a review, because as pointed out DRS was in operation when Broad didn't walk, and it's not his fault Clarke couldn't review.
I read this morning that the ECB are allowing Ben Stokes to be available for the forthcoming IPL.
[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42533216 ]Stokes given permission to play in IPL[/url]
Did someone at the ECB have a flutter on an Ashes whitewash? Why would they agree to him playing at all if they won't permit him to play for the national side?
And why isn't the CPS being given the hurry up on this?
I smell a rat...
And why isn't the CPS being given the hurry up on this?
Because he has been a prat.
If I or you acted in a similar way and ended up in trouble with the rozzers we shouldn't be able to expect special treatment so why should he.
I know his motives were probably quite honorable, but he had a couple of opportunities during that altercation to de-escalate and he didn't take them.
I do want to know, however, what has happened to the arsehole who threatened to use a bottle - he needs to face some action as well.
Did someone at the ECB have a flutter on an Ashes whitewash?
I don't think having Stokes in the side would have made the slightest difference to the result.
I don't think having Stokes in the side would have made the slightest difference to the result.
I [i]think[/i] it might well have made a difference. But we'll never know. 😉
Agreed, he was a prat by allowing himself to become involved, at least Alex Hales had the sense to not throw his fists about, unless he was the one with the bottle? Genuine question.
I think it might well have made a difference. But we'll never know.
Big 1st innings top order runs win test matches for the most part, with Cook and Root out of sorts England were not going win anything.
Big 1st innings top order runs win test matches for the most part,
I disagree a bit, big runs set a platform that bowlers can win games from. No runs, and for sure you'll be battling to save games, but as per the last test big runs mean little if you can't take 20 wickets and our attack hasn't proven its ability to do that apart from a few times and under favourable conditions, like in the pink ball test.
Stokes has the ability to get a key wicket at a key time, like Flintoff adn Botham before him, and I think that's been missing. And where bowlers hunt in packs, if we'd had him to bowl agressively and get those key wickets, Anderson and Broad would have had far better chance of success against new batters rather than plugging away against good batters who are well set on flat pitches.
Stokes has the ability to get a key wicket at a key time, like Flintoff adn Botham before him, and I think that's been missing. And where bowlers hunt in packs, if we'd had him to bowl agressively and get those key wickets, Anderson and Broad would have had far better chance of success against new batters rather than plugging away against good batters who are well set on flat pitches.
not in australian conditions Flintoff for example....
* 23/11/06 1 Brisbane 30-4-99-4 5-2-11-0 0 & 16 0 Lost
* 01/12/06 2 Adelaide 26-5-82-1 9-0-44-2 38* & 2 0 Lost
* 14/12/06 3 Perth 9-2-36-0 19-2-76-0 13 & 51 0 Lost
* 26/12/06 4 Melbourne 22-1-77-3 dnb 13 & 25 0 Lost
* 02/01/07 5 Sydney 17-2-56-1 dnb 89 & 7 0 Lost
botham didn't take a lot of wickets down under either
2/11/82 1 Perth 40-10-121-2 6-1-17-0 12 & 0 0 Draw
26/11/82 2 Brisbane 22-1-105-3 15.5-1-70-0 40 & 15 1 Lost
10/12/82 3 Adelaide 36.5-5-112-4 10-2-45-1 35 & 58 2 Lost
26/12/82 4 Melbourne 18-3-69-1 25.1-4-80-2 27 & 46 0 Won
02/01/83 5 Sydney 30-8-75-4 10-0-35-1 5 & 32 4 Draw
14/11/86 1 Brisbane 16-1-58-2 12-0-34-1 138 & dnb 0 Won
28/11/86 2 Perth 22-4-72-1 7.2-4-13-0 0 & 6 4 Draw
26/12/86 4 Melbourne 16-4-41-5 7-1-19-0 29 & dnb 3 Won
10/01/87 5 Sydney 23-10-42-0 3-0-17-0 16 & 0 3 Lost
even though they won more
The thing with someone like Stokes or Flintoff is that he is the kind of player who [u]could[/u] change a game almost by force of will.
Chuck them the ball when Smith was set for example. It could cost you 25-30 runs in three or four over, but it could also get him out. It would have been nice to have that option because who are we going to chuck the ball to and say 'three overs, bust a gut, but get this bugger out'? Woakes? 😆
We never really got into a position with the bat to allow a Stokes innings to take the game away from them, and he is not as potent with the ball as Flintoff was, so I doubt he would have made a huge difference, but he would have made some difference. What we really needed was some pace and a good spinner.
It's not masses of wickets though, it's that ability to get [u]that[/u] wicket when needed. As Dannyh said, might be 1-20 in 4 overs but if that unjams the games, it's still better than 0-70 in 25 overs
Exactly. The type of player that Stokes typifies is the impact player.
With the bat his principle role is to grind the oppo into the dirt when we already have some runs on the board and the ball isn't doing anything. Chris Cairns and Adam Gilchrist spring to mind here. Occasionally they can also launch a brilliant counter attack - although more often than not it is just another wicket lost.
With the ball it is about getting [u]the[/u] wicket. From nowhere if necessary. Three or four overs, I don't care if you go for thirty, just get Smith out.
The likes of Woakes typify the competent all rounder. Reliable, unspectacular. Teams have to have a mix of 'boring' and 'flair'. The very best players pack both into one man, otherwise it is about mix of players. If we had been getting runs on the board, the likes of Moeen would have had a better tour.
at least Alex Hales had the sense to not throw his fists about, unless he was the one with the bottle? Genuine question.
I'm late to this thread and I'm sure it has been mentioned before, but Hales was an even bigger jeb end kicking a guy in the head when he was on the floor then ran away before coming back to loiter. Class guy
Clearly I haven't furnished myself with the finer details of the fracas. I seem to recall that the ECB didn't impose a ban for him, so they obviously reward certain behaviours more than others.
think we have the definitive definition of "clutching at straws" 🙄
I don't think so, I think we've both said he may have made a difference but I am still convinced we'd have lost the series. Just maybe not as pathetically as we have.
You can't be saying that a current England side without Stokes is better than one with him?
It was always going to be tough and losing Stokes didn't help. He was one misdemeanor away from missing a test anyway but the circumstances and subsequent disruption must have been huge for the team mentally, more than the fact he was missing physically... though the team wouldn't be worse for having him, true.
Breaking News....
Woakes out Crane in for him so probably 2 spinners with Ali been given a chance (or we don't have another bowler who they want there) So assume that is Curran still in there for Overton too?
Confirmation
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/mason-crane-leg-spinner-test-debut-england-ashes-sydney-scg-chris-woakes-injured/2018-01-03
and Starc to replace Bird
http://www.cricket.com.au/news/mitchell-starc-returns-test-squad-jackson-bird-dropped-australia-ashes-england-scg-fifth-test-sydney/2018-01-03
So no double spinner for Australia
Back to the Anderson vs Bird thing, I think we have a winner:
Bird: 0-108 off 30ov
Anderson: 4-107 off 59ov
😆
And I hope Crane is better than his stats. A FC bowling average of 44 is more than a little worrying when it's against Warner, Smith and a few others who like to swing the bat.
That's quite a tail we have now - it doesn't seem all that long ago people were talking about how deep England batted.
Jaffa
So far, so good at 24-0; stoneman on 20 so another quick start by him - let's hope it continues.
Why oh why did you post that
122-3 all got starts all got out 400 is the target if your going to win
That's quite a tail we have now - it doesn't seem all that long ago people were talking about how deep England batted.
Most of the locals I speak to are still scared of Broad with the bat, so having him at 10 has certainly added an air of depth to the order. On his day they'd be right, but it's very rarely his day with the bat these days.
However, you put an 'ideal' lineup of:
1) Cook
2) Stoneman
3) Vince / Malan
4) Root
5) Stokes
6) Bairstow
7) Ali
8 ) Toby RJ / Woakes / Overton
9) Wood
10) Broad
11) Anderson
and that's a fairly formidable batting lineup if they all play to their potential. It also gives you four fm bowlers, one f, a spinner and two part timers if you have Malan over Vince.
It's a wonderful whatif, I suppose, but injury, indiscipline, and abject form seems to have robbed us of most of it.
The moment I turn the radio on...!
Argh
Root you brainless ****ing nobhead. Straight into the trap, exposes another batter to 15 balls at the end of our day, 4 times this series now.
Bairstow on review.........
tiny nick (phew)
a simple trap for root. I shouted at the telly
also showed a revealing stat - top 6 world batters currently (Root is 6) all convert 50's to 100's at 40+%, Smith is #2 and 51%, Kohli #1 @ 57%
Root - 26.5% - gives it away too often.
Think I'll go back to bed.
FFS. sums up the series. its almost funny
Johnny would be entirely in his rights to insert that shiny new bat into Joe Root
FFS