[Closed] "Muslim" terrorists attack French magazine in Paris

I was trying to get you to realise the hypocrisy of your views as everyone else can

The issue is you are happy with our govts and your beloved Israel, who can do no wrong, funding and executing attacks abroad that, if other countries[iran] did them you would call them acts of terroristm.

You would and you do

What about bombing UN schools where women and children are hiding from bombings?
OK for israel and bad for Iran I assume

Explain?

So what are the leaders of islam going to do about the murders committed in the name of their religeon?

What can they do?

Government forces vs Individuals, very different. There has always been conflict and sadly there always will be. You have to be strong to protect your yourself and your interests. Sending a drone strike onto a terrorist training camp in Yemen is perfectly justifiable. Shooting journalists or school children is not. If you all know my answer why ask a question ?

Sorry, who's interests again? It seems to me that the people pulling the trigger to "defend our interests" aren't necessarily the ones on the ground or in the streets getting killed as a consequence of it.

jambalaya - Member

@Northwind ISIS and Shia / Sunni sectarian violence is killing far more Muslims than is the West. The policeman executed on the ground was an Arab. To describe the West's action in the Middle East as anti-Muslim is nonsense,

Not sure who you're actually responding to but it's definitely not me.

So are people really saying that the west deserves this kind of thing then? Because of a few cartoons?

Government forces vs Individuals, very different. There has always been conflict and sadly there always will be. You have to be strong to protect your yourself and your interests. Sending a drone strike onto a terrorist training camp in Yemen is perfectly justifiable. Shooting journalists or school children is not. If you all know my answer why ask a question ?

So when terrorists deliberately kill, say 5 civilians - in your opinion this is several orders of magnitude worse than a bombing campaign that takes out a handful of [i]suspected[/i] terrorists but kills hundreds of civilians too? 😕

A single drone strike in 2006 is thought to have killed 69 children. They're also almost certainly illegal under international law. I bet you don't give a shit do you?

I want to know what as a faith they are going to do about stoping these crimes done in their name?

FFS not again!!

What about bombing UN schools where women and children are hiding from bombings?

Civilians are always killed in wars, its very regrettable but its unavoidable. Hamas knew that when they instigated the conflict with 6 months of rocket fire on Israel and by the kidnapping and murder of the three teenagers which they have know acknowledged was carried out by their operatives.

Civilians are always killed in wars, its very regrettable but its unavoidable.

Using violence to achieve your political aims = exactly what the terrorists are doing.

It's just that we/Israel/the US are much, much better at killing people.

@grum it's not a breach of international law to fire at a target, that may turn out to have been a mistake but civilians are always killed in wars, in fact in modern times civilian casualties outnumber military ones. It's a sad fact and one we should all take into account before entering a conflict but it remains a fact.

@jamby

....and the israelis responded by relentlessly shelling one of the most densely populated countries in the world for a month killing 1000 men (all terrorists apparently) and 1000 women & children

which ones are the more evil again?

Shooting journalists or blowing commuters up on a train isn't the same as a drone strike on a pickup gunship or a training camp.

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore - the Israeli state was founded by terrorists and lauds them as heroes.

Israel granted a general amnesty to Lehi members on 14 February 1949. In 1980, Israel instituted a military decoration in "award for activity in the struggle for the establishment of Israel," the Lehi ribbon.[22] Former Lehi leader Yitzhak Shamir became Prime Minister of Israel in 1983.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

How about massacring a whole village jambalaya? Then making heroes out of those who did it? Pretty sick eh.

Around 107 villagers were killed during and after the battle for the village, including women and children—some were shot, while others died when hand grenades were thrown into their homes.[2] Several villagers were taken prisoner and may have been killed after being paraded through the streets of West Jerusalem, though accounts vary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre

he ones full of hidden rockets, the ones where rockets are launched from just outside or the school which was hit by an errant Hamas mortar with the video to show the playground where allegedly there where people was actually empty ? Journalists where kept in the hotel or hospital and shown and told what was approved by Hamas.

You crack me up on these threads jambalaya. Spectacularly missing points and avoiding awkward questions. Anyway, do you believe Israel creates conditions which foment terrorism? Or do Palestinians just not like Jews? Is it purely a religion thing?

So again, jambalaya - are you against terrorism and condemn it wholeheartedly, or does it depend?

How about bombing a train full of civilians?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)#Cairo-Haifa_train_bombings

What your argument boils down to is - 'we are the good guys, so whatever we do is fully justified - we can kill 10 times as many people as the baddies, but we're still the good guys'.

lol humans are pretending to be something other than slightly evolved apes..

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore - the Israeli state was founded by terrorists and lauds them as heroes.

House!! 😀

So are people really saying that the west deserves this kind of thing then? Because of a few cartoons?

No. HTH.

It hasn't worked.

Head of MI5 speaking later today,

[i]It is too early for us to come to judgments about the precise details or origins of the attack but it is a terrible reminder of the intentions of those who wish us harm.[/i]

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11332986/Charlie-Hebdo-attack-terrible-reminder-of-terror-risk-says-head-of-MI5.html ]Reminder of the terror risks we face[/url]

Just another reminder for you BTW that you will no doubt ignore

Answer the ****ing question jamabalaya you massive hypocrite.

You crack me up on these threads jambalaya. Spectacularly missing points and avoiding awkward questions. Anyway, do you believe Israel creates conditions which foment terrorism? Or do Palestinians just not like Jews? Is it purely a religion thing?

The terrorists exist and they would do so independent of Israels actions. The West tried to appease Hitler and it didn't work out. What you see on the streets of Paris yesterday is exactly what Israel is dealing with on a daily basis.

you think I avoid issues

😀

It's not [i]just[/i] me is it?

hmm do you think the french will try the israeli tactic of cramming all the muslims into a giant concentration camp, put big walls around them, restrict their food, power, sanitation etc?

Another useless thread with the usual suspects spouting rubbish like stuck records to demonstrate their impeccable 6th form activist credentials. You'd all bend over backwards to take it from anyone, as long as it justified your comfortable contrary views. Sanctimonious, solipsistic, infantile idiots.

Another useless thread...

@kimber - you forgot to mention the Egyptians, their closure of the Raffa broder crossing is far more significant and has a far greater impact on Gazans than the Israeli border crossing. The Eyptians have demolished all houses within a few hunderd meters of the border and done all they can to destroy the smuggling tunnels. Gazan shops are full of food shipped in from Israel

@bainbrge - its a debate, a lively and at times hostile one but its a debate. If you don't want to read it follow another thread.

It always interests me all the mud slinging, the fact is the governments of the UK (Labour, Coalition), US etc agree with me. An inconvenient truth for some here I suspect.

jambalaya - Member
Quite surprised you think I avoid issues.

An inconvenient truth for some here I suspect

Thanks for your contribution bainbrge - you really turned things around.

Quite surprised you think I avoid issues, I comment very openly and directly.

You've completely ignored several direct questions I've asked you - not only in this thread but in several others.

[b][u]I'll ask you again jambalaya[/u][/b], is terrorism wrong full-stop, or does it depend on the circumstances/who's doing it? Was the terrorism which helped found the state of Israel justifiable, and is it ok to laud those who committed those acts as heroes?

Don't take it personally. It's a hackneyed debate tactic, usually deployed by people who are, in fact, doing the same themselves.

It's not really a hackneyed debate tactic to ask someone to answer a simple question which they won't because it reveals their own staggering hypocrisy. And what questions/issues are you suggesting that Darcy or I are avoiding?

Good thread so far, lots of differing views, I find myself agreeing with totally contradictory ones. I haven't seen any divine intervention from the mods despite calls to make people "disappear", no bans I'm aware of, this freedom of speech thing has a lot going for it.

I suppose that arguing for deportation of someone who's ancestry comes from a different country might be analogous to deporting me to Denmark if I committed a crime (blowing up a random mosque, say) because the original "Woppit" came over in the 5th century with Hengist and Horsa and settled in the midlands.

You could argue that a born national (of whatever lineage) is a country's own problem to deal with, but you could also argue that the deportation to a country who's culture is more aligned with their own silly views (Saudi Arabia, let's say, or "IS") should be welcomed by the deportees.

However, the terrorists don't want to necessarily live in a country like that, they want to make YOUR country like that so that they can live in it.

As Chris Hitchens once said - (I may be paraphrasing here) - "You'd think religious people would simply be happy with their religion and just get on with it but no, they won't be happy until YOU believe as well..."

Its all about power and control Wopster. They don't really care if you believe or not, as long as you're subservient to 'it' and the rules that they then attach to 'it'

Thats why when they finally get their belloved Sharia Caliphate, they then all furiously set about a deadly game of 'I'm more Islamic than you'. With predictable results. Its like a not-even-remotely-funny version of the Life of Brian

thats the pyramid selling bit of it.

Predictable response from Pegida [url= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jan/08/paris-attack-german-anti-immigrant-islamist-threat ]link[/url]

Shocking survey result;

[i]A survey published on Thursday but conducted in November, before widespread coverage of Pegida, showed that 61% of Germans believed Islam had no place in the West.[/i]

Definitely not avoiding any questions/issues then jambalaya? 😆

So we can assume that you do think sometimes terrorism is ok, but only when it's the good guys doing it.

grum

Definitely not avoiding any questions/issues then jambalaya?

He's trolling the **** out of you Grum. Give up.

It's a hackneyed debate tactic, usually deployed by people who are, in fact, doing the same themselves.

or if you prefer

It's not really a hackneyed debate tactic to ask someone to answer a simple question which they won't because it reveals their own staggering hypocrisy

Putting it bluntly if iran and israel did exactly the same thing Jambalaya would call one terrorists and then tell us how the other was both legal and the victims fault....see bombing of UN schools for an example

See if he answer directly about the formation of israel as well

Head of MI5 speaking later today,

It is too early for us to come to judgments about the precise details or origins of the attack but it is a terrible reminder of the intentions of those who wish us harm.

difference between understanding the causes and "think its ok"
your insistence that all violent action is terrorism makes your statement impossible to [s]answer[/s] respond to - but you already know that.

@ binners

I think you've made a massive point, there.

I agree.

difference between understanding the causes and "think its ok"
your insistence that all violent action is terrorism makes your statement impossible to answer respond to - but you already know that.

You can debate my definition of terrorism if you like - but you can't debate that the Lehi gang were terrorists under any definition.

jimjam - you may well be right but I think he might genuinely believe his own hypocritical BS.

@ binners

I think you've made a massive point, there.

... and I think the squabbling kids clustered around our discussion should stop for a minute and think about it.

14.27 Two armed men have been reportedly spotted in the woods outside Villers-Cotterets.

Our photographer Heathcliffe O'Malley, who is on the N2 outside of Paris, near the village of Longpont, has just spoken to a man who was warned to leave a local restaurant "because the police were coming".

The restaurant owner said that he had been told "two armed men are in the woods".

Police are gathering in what looks like a farmhouse, outside the village.

[qoute]Its all about power and control Wopster. They don't really care if you believe or not, as long as you're subservient to 'it' and the rules that they then attach to 'it'
Well of course. That's precisely what religion was used for in "the West" for centuries. it's nothing to do with belief, it's to do with idealism and control.

The terrorists exist and they would do so independent of Israels actions.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If Israel didn't behave the way it did, terrorist organisations wouldn't get volunteers to stuff envelopes, let alone kill people. It is precisely the hopelessness of a struggle against Israel and its US client that makes people turn to the promise of fulfilment in the afterlife via a bearded imaginary friend.

even two cops down, the gendarmes will realise that the world is watching closely, from both sides.

so i will go for dragged kicking/screaming

would anyone be surprised if they died in custody tho'