[Closed] Mumsnet q: Am I being unreasonable?

yes I think perhaps yabu, how old is your daughter? did you get a present from your daughter on your birthday?

It is unreasonable for your ex to expect a present, that has to all intents and purposes come from you.

But it would have been far nicer for your daughter to have something to give to her mum that she chose herself, with your help.

Shared responsibility for your daughter, so shared responsibility for this too.

It's difficult, but I suppose this is why communication between the two of you is important, for the benefit of your daughter.

Your ex is texting you saying that she's not got a birthday present from "your" daughter? I fail to see how that's your daughter being upset, that's your ex being manipulative.

you should be encouraging your daughter to give her mum presents yes. Its true it comes from your wallet when they are young. But this isn't about you or your ex, its about your daughter having a present to give. Its a toughie. I would honestly buy something token, something you buy together with your daughter. It doesn't need to be big and expensive, it needs to be from your daughter and chosen by her.

Just buy her some socks

I guess ideally I'd hope for a reminder text before the event rather than a heap of criticism when it's too late.

But yes, shared custody means sharing all the administrative/organisational family crap too.

I guess not offering up any opportunity for her to place you in the role of 'shit dad' would be the wisest course of action.

Get some flowers from the 24 hour garage. Every woman loves receiving those.

I'd be explaining that you hadn't really considered that perhaps you should have done it and you'll remember next year.

Then stick a Chain Reaction brochure through her door with circles around the stuff you want about 2 weeks before your birthday.

in retrospect, assuming your daughter is still young, I'd probably say yes, you should have organized a pressie. TBF going shopping with kids to buy them gifts to give their grandparents/parents/friends is a normal thing to do. i can see how ppl would say it's part of preparing them for the activities of the week ahead or whatever.

I'm not saying your ex might not be adding an extra layer of unreasonableness on top but the kernel of the complaint might be legit. you might have to take it on the chin.

Suggest she contacts her solicitors to find out the caselaw on the issue, you might want to refer her to Arkell v Pressdram...

Get some flowers from the 24 hour garage. Every woman loves receiving those.

Hold on there Rockefeller, no need to be so extravagant, go for walk through the cemetery, and see what you can find, if you're lucky you might even find an arrangement spelling out "mum".

Anything to ensure the child doesn't get upset/involved in the adult bickering.

PS I don't think you're a terrible person or anything...

I do

Hold on there Rockefeller, no need to be so extravagant, go for walk through the cemetery, and see what you can find, if you're lucky you might even find an arrangement spelling out "mum".

Genius, I salute you sir!!

It's not your responsibility to buy your ex birthday presents. Her family should sort it out, I am sure the grandparents could give your daughter some money to buy their daughter a birthday present.

Part of being a parent is encouraging your kids to cherish and respect [i]both [/i]parents.

Whatever your feelings towards your ex, you child will be happier and better adjusted if she has happy and functioning relationships with [i]both [/i]parents.

So yes, you should have reminded her. However crazy/manipulative/evil your ex is towards you, your daughter should have her illusions preserved at her current age.

I'd say you dropped a ball there. You might not care that your ex got a present but you should want your daughter to be happy and proud to have been in a position to give her mum one (now that you can't - or is it too soon for that gag?). Could other family members have helped her to do that - yes. But so could could you, and as the dad you were probably on the top of the list to make it happen. Your feelings one way or another to her mum are irrelevant here.

Anything you can do to make as much of your daughter's life as smooth and pleasurable as possible with great relations with both parents in what is always going to be non ideal circumstances should remain top of your priority list imo.

Hmmmm. I'm in the "You've done nothing wrong" camp.

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I don't think you've done anything wrong either but I'd have taken her out and bought a present for your ex. Even if you hate her it's a) for the child really and b) keeps things smoother between you and the ex.

wot samuri said although your ex could as easily have checked a day ro two in advance with either you or the child as to whether a present was int he offing and sorted something out rather than wait until the day itself and then act surprised nothing materialised (which smacks of making herself the victim deliberately).

I've lowered the response from 'Welcome to being a single parent, it's your responsibility' to something a little more harmonious.

On reflection, as much as it irks me, a present would have been the right thing to do :/

On reflection, as much as it irks me, a present would have been the right thing to do :/

Maybe... but being a bloke, I would totally understand how you missed this first time around.

The real clincher here, is that [i]your daughter[/i] would have felt happier if she had given her mum a present. And it is your daughter who is important, not you or your ex.

sorry

If i'm entirely honest, I forgot it was her birthday until last night, when she mentioned it while I was dropping off some school uniform 😀

We were only together 7 years

The real clincher here, is that your daughter would have felt happier if she had given her mum a present. And it is your daughter who is important, not you or your ex.

Maybe she would, maybe she wouldn't. Not all daughters are raised as cartoonesque fairy princesses.

It's all well and good to moralise, but I'm not seeing anything to suggest that it's actually anything to do with the daughter. The "acrimonious" ex sent the text, it could readily be a work of fiction to make the OP feel guilty. Tell her to get stuffed, buying a hostile ex presents indeed, cheeky mare.

It's all well and good to moralise, but I'm not seeing anything to suggest that it's actually anything to do with the daughter. The "acrimonious" ex sent the text, it could readily be a work of fiction to make the OP feel guilty. Tell her to get stuffed, buying a hostile ex presents indeed, cheeky mare.

It's open to interpretation - not even the op was there. I can imagine being that kid though (maybe I was brought up a fairy princess 😉 ) realising it was your mum's birthday, seeing the pile of presents and cards from friends and family and not having anything to give yourself. But then I like giving presents, way better that receiving them imo.

One question though. You have to ask yourself why your daughter never told you, or asked for any money...

How old is she ?

No-one's really going heavy on the moralising. It's a pragmatic thing, and probably best to err on the side of caution if there's any chance the daughter is actually upset.

Also opens up the opportunity to buy some confectionery the ex dislikes which will have to be consumed with a smile because it's from the daughter...

Picolax Belgian chocolates?

Hmmmm. I'm in the "You've done nothing wrong" camp.

Bit unreasonable to be expected to remember your ex's birthday, does she sort out a pressie for the OP?

Age of child is pivotal IMO.

Ex is still being a manipulative cow though.

'Dear Ex.
That's odd, she made ME a wonderful card.
I guess she just loves me more.'

does she sort out a pressie for the OP?

This will be an interesting answer. As the OP said they have been separated a year (so he'll have had a birthday) I'm guessing yes. If no I might have to change my original opinion.

I don't think you're being unreasonable.

But as I occasionally forget to get my wife presents from the kids I'm not sure I'm the best person to ask.

Here's the rub, she's only 4.

It's my birthday in a few weeks and I know my gf has already got me a present from her. I neither know or care what's going on in my ex's life. As has been mentioned, better communication would have solved the situation. There's a lesson in there somewhere

I have no children, and am not separated. However, I think this calls for apology rather than angry self-justification - for your own peace of mind if for no other reason.

When you've fulsomely and sincerely apologised, you have some moral high ground for the next time she decides to call you a "shit dad" in a tedious, petty and confrontational way.

🙂

Thread reminds me why I'm emigrating should me and the wife split up

You should read the actual Mumsnet thread going on about you. She really doesn't like you, does she? 😯

[DearDeidre}
Since its been a year, the question is what happened last year and at christmas and fathers/ mothers day. This probably set a precedent.

Also I assume Ex doesnt have a current boyfriend ( or one that doesnt really take too much interest) and possibly feels your benevolence needs to extend over to her side to make up the difference. I guess she realises that your GF has done the bit for your birthday already.

Anyhoo just help your daughter to make something special instead next time which should mean more to her and give you more quality time and costs less!
[/DearDeidre]

You should read the actual Mumsnet thread going on about you. She really doesn't like you, does she?

She really doesn't like me, I doubt there's a mumsnet thread though 😀

if the kid cant reasonably go to a shop on her own with some cash then i think you do have some responsibility to make sure the kid doesnt feel bad on her mums birthday.

at this stage your relationship with her mum is all about [b]not[/b] playing the agnst game. anthing that avoids confrontation is a good thing.

suck it up, say sorry profusely and move on. dont try and buy yourself out that`ll make it worse. make sure she gets an xmas card from the nipper!

It's just dawned on my that my 4 yr old son's never given his Mum a birthday present - so that's my fault right?

Edit - he's never given me one, phew.

It's just dawned on my that my 4 yr old son's never given his Mum a birthday present - so that's my fault right?

yep...

*phones social services*

For Balance

'How about the fing house you're living in, bh?!!'

Disclaimer - **Strongly Recommend You DO NOT take my advice**

(and yes you did drop a bollock there.)

It's not about you or your ex or the gift, it's about your daughter--it shouldn't be a big deal for you to remember her mum's birthday and if you didn't want to buy a gift you could have helped your daughter make a birthday card and do a painting to give to her mum
Yabu

Surely your daughter would only feel bad about not giving a present if someone made her feel bad about not giving a present.

She's 4, she doesn't really know she's obliged to buy her mum a present. She wouldn't feel bad for not knowing.

Surely your daughter would only feel bad about not giving a present if someone made her feel bad about not giving a present.

She's 4, she doesn't really know she's obliged to buy her mum a present. She wouldn't feel bad for not knowing.

+1, see "your ex is a manipulative cow" comment.

"sorry love , I had forgotten your birthday, I really hope "child" was not too upset I will make it up to her and make sure we remember next time."
would be my response but I would not be expecting any presies from my child paid for by my ex in future.

apologise and say it wont happen again and she needs ot do the same for you - see also mother and fathers day

She is upset about this so just sympathise and move on . Ask here to express herself in less acrimonious terms though.

Its not worth arguing about IMHO and you both want your child to give birthday cards and presents and receive them from the child.

you need to teach your kids to do the right thing and not do what you want - its not manipulative to want a card from your child on your birthday and you should be a parent and make sure it happens.

good

Edit - he's never given me one, phew.

+1 - that's got me thinking now...

 

Ask here to express herself in less acrimonious terms though.

followed then by:

Its not worth arguing about

Good luck with that approach!

apologise and say it wont happen again

FTS.

Tell her to stop expecting her ex to buy her presents, and it will happen every year from now on.

CharlieMungus hit the nail on the head. Your ex is using your daughter for emotional blackmail purposes. Which is a really shit thing to do. And if you go grovelling to her, she wins and knows she's got you over a barrel from now on.

I know little about the psyche of your average four year old, but I doubt she'll be seriously traumatised for life by being unable to buy her mother a birthday present BECAUSE SHE'S FOUR unless mummy has been whispering in her ear or just making up the whole thing to make you feel guilty. She should be telling her that little girls don't need to buy presents for mummies and daddies, but can draw a picture for them instead. Rather than sending passive-aggressive text messages to her ex.

Seriously, even if it's true it's a nasty thing to be doing to you and you'd be well served not to play those games.

I'm in the nothing wrong camp but then I don't have kids.

At 4 I do wonder if your daughter felt bad about not having a present or if your ex told her that she should feel bad?

Personally I think there is a valuable lesson to be learnt here. Birthdays and Christmas are not about buying presents they are about family and spending quality time with people. Next year help your daughter to make a card (go mad with the pasta and glitter). Then get one of those charity donation cards. That way your daughter gets some time with you and still gives a present and a charity gets a donation.

at the age of 4, make a card with them to give to the mother - Charlie Mungus is right

and you can now say 'I'm setting clear boundaries so that you're not obliged to get me anything and so that our child isn't a parcel service'

Grandparents / Mothers siblings also should be keeping their eye on the ball with this one too now that she's a single parent

Good luck with that approach!

if you go grovelling to her, she wins and knows she's got you over a barrel from now on.

I doubt she'll be seriously traumatised for life by being unable to buy her mother a birthday present

little girls don't need to buy presents for mummies and daddies, but can draw a picture for them instead.

IMHO most folk expect a card from their children on their birthday so make sure it happens. Not a big deal really.

Poundland!

Does your daughter actually even feel bad, or did your ex tell you she did?

Very mixed responses so don't lose sleep over it. Seems to me the ex is pissed YOU forgot her birthday. My guess is she isn't with anyone else and she's down about the lack of attention?

Thanks Freud for that insight- its not what she said it was about then 😕

[quote=njee20 said]Does your daughter actually even feel bad, or did your ex tell you she did?
neither of these events happened if you re read the OP he assumed it but it was never said

perhaps the mum hid it from the daughter perhaps she burst into tears . we do not know

I got a text this morning from my ex, it's her birthday along the lines of 'shit dad, it's my birthday and your daughter has nothing to give me'

I'm sad that my daughter is upset

And if you go grovelling to her, [b]she wins [/b]and knows she's got you over a barrel from now on.

I've got to declare my hand here - I'm not in this situation but professionally I get to spend a lot of time dealing with kids with divorced parents. Schools so often become the messenger service between parents about their kids when things go really wrong and you get to see in far too graphic detail the seedy side of divorce. To be honest some of the mums I meet I can totally understand why the fathers divorced them - a nightmare! However the main thing I see are dads that have got themselves boxed into a diplomatic corner. As a bloke it pains me to say it but we don't seem to be very good at this. When pressed we revert to our teenage selves and see 'issues' as competitions (as above) that need to be won.

There are some dreadful female parents out there, don't get me wrong, but men seem to often be rubbish because they can't get a handle on the bigger picture and can't get over the rift between the two adults. They see compromise and conciliation as signs of weakness and ultimately 'lose' big as a consequence. Please don't think of it as a competition and don't use the language of winning and losing.

Your ex is acting like a 12 year old.

its about what you want the child to do and what is the right thing to do

The right thing to do, surely, is to not set a precedence where the mother thinks it's perfectly acceptable to use the child as leverage.

This isn't about the child, it's all about the mother point-scoring. I'd be shocked if the child was all that fussed either way. Daddy helping to make mummy a birthday card would be a nice thing to do of course, some quality father-daughter time together, but I'd be damned if you should be [i]obliged[/i] to do it. What's stopping granny from doing it rather than her having you over a barrel to celebrate an ex's birthday?

Out of interest, what would your girlfriend have to say about you buying presents for an "acrimonious" ex?

the mother thinks it's perfectly acceptable to use the child as leverage.

I'd be shocked if the child was all that fussed either way

Indeed it is almost like you have to show them how to behave so they get it or you could try ignoring their birthday but that would be harsh

Why not tell her you were planning to pop round and deliver it later?

OK... I'm speaking from my own personal experience with shared care, or half custody or whatever you wanna call it..

We opted for this as we wanted what was best for the kids, not what was best for us or best financially.. With this in mind we have made every effort to remain a team, put our differences behind us (which is where they belong) and put our family first..

So we still support each other in what we do, we still put communication at the top of our priority list, and we still act with love and compassion..
The respect and admiration that we get from our new partners and our family and friends for acting in this way is very rewarding too

Now that may seem naive, idealistic and unrealistic but it's not..
We've cut out the shit that we didn't like, like each other's company and co-habiting and bickering about our own self centred expectations, which has freed us up to live the lives that we want and focus on what is important.. The kids

I received some really nice, thoughtful presents this year and the erstwhile Mrs yunki will get the same in return, it's incredibly simple to live with love and compassion, especially when you don't have to put up with crap sex and nagging..

She has said that she would like a card from the child on her birthday.

So who is this all about, again? That's a very different situation from "the child wanted to give the mother a card."

Regardless, why is this a responsibility exclusively foisted on an estranged ex-partner? He's the child's family, not the mother's. Will mummy soon be sitting with daughter, lovingly crafting a birthday card for daddy?

I do not know why you wish to use such emotive language to describe the situation.

Because, really, it's a deeply unpleasant situation IMHO. "It's my birthday, where's my present, you've upset your daughter" is manipulative and downright bloody rude to start with, but being expected to behave like a couple when you're not just stops you moving on with your life. By all means be civil to each other, and if as time goes on you find that you become friends then buying each other birthday presents might turn into something that you'll want to do as friends. But this couple-y expectation is just... icky. Sorry.

there you go.. ugly thoughts breed ugly situations.. quite possibly ugly kids too

good luck cougar! 😆

Scrap that.

What Yunki just said, instead. Good work sir.

I think my beef with the whole thing is the way she's done it. She could easily have pre-empted this and mentioned it in a civil discussion beforehand. But instead she's sent a shitogram after the fact. To what end, what's that achieve, other than to make the OP feel shitty (which, it appears, has been largely successful)?

Yeh, you nailed it </thread>

I think my beef with the whole thing is the way she's done it. She could easily have pre-empted this and mentioned it in a civil discussion beforehand. But instead she's sent a shitogram after the fact. To what end, what's that achieve, other than to make the OP feel shitty (which, it appears, has been largely successful)?

I think you just nailed being divorced but she is also right this time.
you need to rise above it and not join in.

I got a shitty text from my ex when the birthday gifts I helped the kids choose for her were not deemed up to scratch

They were for her 40th and she wanted something she could keep like jewelery or something

Unfortunately despite all the idealism I spouted above, rising above it is sometimes still the most valuable tool in the armoury 😀