[Closed] mr gove

II wonder if all the fools who voted con would now vote con now, i blame a lack of education for them voting conservative, they obviously didnt read the history books labour provided about how the cons systematically destroy the state enterprises.

must say I was a bit surprised they got two thirds final salary as a pension thought I was doing ok on fifty percent

The average pension drawn is £10,000.

From www.teacherspensions.co.uk

"If you were a member of the TPS before 1 January 2007, your pension is 1/80th of the average salary for each year of pensionable service. Individual days count as 1/365th of a year." - This is most teachers.

To get a 2/3 final salary pension they'd need to work for 53 years - or until they were 75, assuming they entered the classroom at 22.

Is this Gove bloke the one that they call "two brains"?

Just shows how far numeracy standards have slipped when the people that run the country have gotten their numerators and denominators mixed up.

Two Brains is Willets

The average pension drawn is £10,000

Given teachers salary that is a surprisingly low figure, not sure what the average wage is, but if they only get 50% of final salary i'm sure they earn more than 20 grand a year
My final salary pension having paid 31 years was frozen in 2009 which pays 50% and expect to get about 15 grand a year even with the last nine years or so reckoned at career average

Apologies if I quoted the 2/3rds incorrectly, relied on info from the BBC which said

It is a final-salary scheme, based on a 1/60th accrual rate with a normal pension age (NPA) of 65, offering a pension of two-thirds of final salary.

For those who joined before 1 January 2007, the NPA is 60 but the accrual rate is 1/80ths plus 3/80ths lump sum, offering a pension of half final salary.

The full entitlement is only there for people who work continuously. The majority of teachers are women, many of whom take career breaks to bring up kids. They retire with nothing like the full pension.

Seeing as there are a few teachers here maybe they can answer a question that has puzzled myself and friends for years

Why do they always congregate around one table in a pub no matter how many of them there are? Can always tell when teachers are in by the amount of tables that have no chairs around them and one great big group just about balancing their drinks on a solitary table

Why do they always congregate around one table in a pub no matter how many of them there are?

They are secretly planning dastardly ways of undermining the very fabric of our society.

safety in numbers innit, we're always wary of attack from 'angry hard-working parents'

firstly we form a corral around the drinks....also if we have all the chairs, they can't be used as weapons against us

(CBA punctuation, etc)

What BillMC said.

Also, believe it or not, some teachers have been in the Real World ™ before becoming teachers, so they don't spend from age 22 to retirement paying into their teacher's pension. In my department, of six of us only one went straight into teaching at age 22.

The full entitlement is only there for people who work continuously. The majority of teachers are women, many of whom take career breaks to bring up kids. They retire with nothing like the full pension

Can you buy extra years? not agitating just interested as we used to be able to before the final salary deal was stopped. I paid in to cover the days lost when we went on strike, never bought any extra years though

You can make additional voluntary contributions. A colleague did some sums and worked out he'd break even if he lived to 84 or something.

I should probably look into buying extra years, as I didn't start paying in until I was 25.

Future teachers will be stuffed. Student Loan repayments, plus extra pension contributions, plus stupid house prices, plus no jobs because they're full of old duffers who can't retire yet.

Is the teachers pension fund one of those that is fully funded , it has no defecit and does not appear to need a top up from the public purse? Unlike say the police and fire service ones.

Is the teachers pension fund one of those that is fully funded , it has no defecit and does not appear to need a top up from the public purse? Unlike say the police and fire service ones.

I believe so.

When it was renegotiated 4 years ago, a cap was placed on the government's contribution, so any future deficit would be covered by members. One of the reasons why we're a little annoyed...

Why do they always congregate around one table in a pub no matter how many of them there are?

Nurses do too. We are also plotting to undermine the fabric of society. HTH.

NUT chap on radio 4 this morning was suprisingly un-ranty. Particularly liked his response to the NUT's strike ballot respone/turnout being akin to the AV referendum, (but with 92% 'yes' vote).

No mention of CRB/liability implications (discussed earlier in this thread) from the spokesperson they wheeled out cos Mr Gove was too busy. In backing up the parents-comeing-in-to-help idea he did however describe the functions of school as twofold, 1) education and 2) childcare.

I bet that will go down well.

I thought the teachers renegotiated their pensions T&Cs about 4 years ago? What happened?

ransos - you are right. They did and one of the key things is this put a cap on the taxpayer contribution - any future deficit will be made up by the teachers own contributions.

What happened - the government want an enemy to fight so decided to use public services by attacking the pensions of the public servants to provoke a dispute.

Its nothing to do with finances, its everything to do with politics.

Same as the NHS pension fund which has also been reviewed. For many years the NHS pension fund has been in surplus with more being paid in than taken out. This is still the case now. This excess money has been used as revenue by the exchequer not saved or invested. In the future the NHS fund will tip into deficit. Then the government has to make up the shortfall. This is only fair as they have spent billions in surpluses.

Public sector pensions are affordable and sustainable in the main. cuts to them will not save the exchequer significant money as reductions in pensions simply mean more folk will end up on benefits as average pensions are low - just a few thousand a year. The scandal is that private sector do not have decent pensions for most workers and that is a shortfall that will have to be made up by the taxpayer in the form of benefits

[url= http://www.newstatesman.com/education/2010/09/gove-8220-parents-school ]Gove on strike[/url]

There he did something that I am sure no other leading Tory has done, and which helps explain his understanding and empathy with left-wing critics: he was on strike for as long as four months in the bitter confrontation between the National Union of Journalists and the Press and Journal, which derecognised the NUJ against the wishes of the journalists and then made scapegoats of the union leaders.

Repeated thread, you know, the one that got closed down a few days ago..

Lifer that link ios pschofansy of the highest order
header gives

He has immense charm

What sets him apart," he says now, "is that he has the precious skill of making people who don't agree with him like him and respect him. He is persuasive in a personal sense. People who don't agree with him start agreeing with him a bit.

Just to add to the intellectual debate...

[b]Mr Gove does have a very punchable face.[/b]

That is all, carry on.

I didn't post it because of the writer's impression of Gove but as a source of the striking story.

Watched the thing from the "Campaign For Real Education" on breakfast TV this am. Between her and Gove I suspect I'd need to recruit David Hay as an assistant..

I always thought strike was last resort after all other means of protest have been exhausted. Work to rule etc. Can they hand on heart say that there is no alternitive (yet) to strike?

That is all

I always thought strike was last resort after all other means of protest have been exhausted. Work to rule etc. Can they hand on heart say that there is no alternitive (yet) to strike?

I'm still conflicted as to whether the strike is the right thing to do, but it's certainly keeping the topic in the news more than if it was just the negotiations going on. The speed of the implementation of the change being introduced along with the government's seeming disinclination of negotiate on some points means that there's not a lot of point in waiting until after negotiations have ended.

Gove's every move seems to be driven by classic free market economic concepts - what barriers are there to a free market in school education? - well the fact that teachers pay and conditions is negotiated nationally is percieved by free marketeers as a "distortion" similarly that the fact that teachers have to be qualified creates an artificial "scarcity"
Think the tories are very happy to pick a fight with teachers

laughably whilst taking central control and removing the support (not control) of local authorities

[url] http://www.localschoolsnetwork.org.uk/2011/01/government-bullies-schools-considering-academy-status/ [/url]

Future teachers will be stuffed. Student Loan repayments, plus extra pension contributions, plus stupid house prices, plus no jobs because they're full of old duffers who can't retire yet.

I'd say future [b]everyone[/b] will face this issue. It is beyond mere ideology, too - the issue is one of expectation. And the expectations have been too high for too long.

But, of course, with tories in power, public sector workers are going to get a kicking in this regard....

Berm Bandit - Member
Watched the thing from the "Campaign For Real Education" on breakfast TV this am. Between her and Gove I suspect I'd need to recruit David Hay as an assistant..

Best not spoil Hay's chances for the big fight, I’ll give you a hand if you want.
I would normally never strike a woman but in this case I am willing to make an exception!
She was/is a hideously annoying stuck up old bag.

Gove is my MP.

A very decent chap 🙂

it's equivalent to saying he'd be happy for anyone to go in to work as a copper if the police went on strike!

Well the public seem quite good at dealing with burglars so why not. I'm off on Thursday, I think I might tell the kids this evening that it's ok school will be open and I'll be teaching them. That should go down well.

allthepies - Member

Gove is my MP.

A very decent chap

his plans for pe reform were inspired to cut a shedload of funding and use the olympics as a model to replace pe lessons twaaaaaaaaaaat of the highest order imho

Gove is my MP.

A very decent chap

A case of one knob voting for another?

I always thought strike was last resort after all other means of protest have been exhausted. Work to rule etc. Can they hand on heart say that there is no alternitive (yet) to strike?

A one day strike now is the lesser evil to educational attainment. All exams done. Working to rule for a few weeks would have a much bigger effect. Although I agree the current strike may have been premature.

Franksinatra; As a teacher, a work to rule; 35 hours and not a second more,would have a FAR greater impact on childrens education than one day strikes.

Other news;

The BBC also reported on the forthcoming meeting between union leaders and Francis Maude and spoke of there being “very little room to manoeuvre” because the raiding of public service pension funds was part of the “deficit reduction plan”.

And I thought the excuse was everybody living longer?

Tehre is no desire to negotiate at all from the Government side. ~Tehy want to either provoke a strike or destroy the pensions. preferably both. They have already said what the solution they will impose is in broad.

Strange to hear this attitude to striking from Gove, he seemed quite keen on it when he was in the NUJ.

Nobody seems to have realised that the teachers are on holiday in the next few weeks for a long time, so Gove will just change the pension when theyre off , and when they come back it will all be done, so easy and theyll fall for it.

Mr Gove does have a very punchable face.

😕 You're kidding me........why would anyone want to punch this face ?

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Same as the NHS pension fund which has also been reviewed. For many years the NHS pension fund has been in surplus with more being paid in than taken out.

You've been called on this before TJ, but you trotted it out again - the NHS pension scheme is unfunded, it doesn't not have a fund, it has never had a fund,

do you understand this concept, *[u]there is no fund and never has been a fund[/u]* it is a [u][b]pension scheme[/b][/u]

*there is no fund and never has been a fund*

yes, but it has always been in surplus

Zulu - its you that as usual has no idea at all what you are drivvling on about.

What I said is absolutely true.

For decades and still now each year more is paid in pension contributions than is taken out. This surplus has been used as revenue by the exchequer rather than being invested or saved. So if the [i]scheme[/i] goes into deficit in the future then its only fair the exchequer makes up the deficit as the exchequer took the surplus. Bit like an employers contributions holiday leaving a fund in deficit.

The NHS pension is affordable, sustainable and reasonable. Its nasty envious selfish types that want to destroy one of the small bonuses of working for the NHS.

Reducing the pensions will not save money as more people will end on benefits.

He looks like pob

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Once again, that is all, carry on...

. So if the fund goes into deficit in the future ...

What fund?