Years back I rode to Oporto on a MZ251. Ferry to Cherbourg then whatever was the coast road to Oporto. The only map I had was the Stormriders European surf guide. Camping gear and bodyboard on back. Every time I saw surf I'd stop, camp and surf for a few days. Fun trip.
Hi OP
I've no idea if off-road touring is on the agenda, but a group of enthusiasts have put together the Trans-Euro-Trail, a back lane/offroad tour of Europe (38,000km I think if you wanted to go right round!). Might be a nice relaxed option for camping trip as I think that the majority of the riding is pretty easy.
Lots more information at https://www.transeurotrail.org and https://adventure-spec.com/tracks/
I'm hatching a plan to do some of it next year...
That TET looks amazing.
Yeah, smallish dirt bikes would be my preference too. That opens up the option of lots of offroad sections (road riding gets tedious quickly).
I wouldn't use a smallish dirt bike unless the trip was planned around off-roading. I've had loads of dirt bikes, including a DR350, and while I loved the bikes I wouldn't want to do a lot of road miles on one. A CB500 (or even a CBF250) or similar would be much better if it's an on-road trip.
A CB500 (or even a CBF250) or similar would be much better if it’s an on-road trip.
Crap offroad 😉
Oh another thing I took my mate on a two week Alps tour about 3 months after he passed his test. Initially he found the riding quite stressful and a little intimidating. You don't get to practice many hairpins training for you test.
By the end of the trip his riding was transformed, hes now a really good rider and he puts that down to touring the Alps. You will do more corners in two weeks in the Alps than a year in the UK 🙂
6 years on we are off again on a long trip and I have to work hard to keep up with him now 🙂
Someone mentioned the Honda CBX500 there is a shop/company doing some conversions to adventure spec. Rally Raid iirc. Looks Ideal.
Crap offroad
Fine on dry tracks - not good if it's soft etc.
I wouldn't necessarily mix a bit of off-roading into a long road trip myself - especially for a beginner as off-road bikes with reasonable on-road manners tend to be quite heavy. If I was going to take a DR350 or the like then I'd be thinking about somewhere like Iceland maybe, and do as much of the riding off-road as possible.
I quite liked my DR350 for commuting and for off-road stuff but it was purgatory doing any significant road mileages on it. Even the XT600 I had was the same - absolutely horrible on-road at any kind of speed.
It's much like mountain bikes vs road bikes! I struggle with having to ride on roads. It's just dull.
It’s much like mountain bikes vs road bikes! I struggle with having to ride on roads. It’s just dull.
If so then you're just not going fast enough - road bike or motorbike.
Oohh!!! That told me!
One of the reasons I agreed small dirt bikes were a good idea was to keep speed down for a 19 year old novice.
But hey. You're so fast.
I think a long trip like that might be good fun on something like a Honda C90 or a Vespa.
Around 20 years ago a couple of friends and I started planning a wee adventure. Fly to Rome, buy some cheap second hand scooters and then ride them back to Britain over the alps camping/hostelling our way. We very nearly did it - the barrier was finding a way to insure an Italian registered bike, to British license holders who did not have an Italian address. Can't re-register as British until the bike is here, so no way to get British insurance. This was in the early days of the internet so investigating was difficult, made all the worse by the fact that we basically could only speak "holiday Italian". Wonder if its possible now with improved comms and modernised insurance products?
People are over thinking this.
Get lad to pass A2 test (too young for A, but old enough to go to Afghanistan ironically)
Buy suitable bikes.
Book ferry
Ride bikes and have fun. / Repeat until bored,money runs out our you have to go back to work.
If you like maps and planning do a bit of that in the mean time to build the excitement 🙂
People are over thinking this.
Get lad to pass A2 test (too young for A, but old enough to go to Afghanistan ironically)
Buy suitable bikes.
Book ferry
Ride bikes and have fun. / Repeat until bored,money runs out our you have to go back to work.
This. No more, and no less.
Oohh!!! That told me!One of the reasons I agreed small dirt bikes were a good idea was to keep speed down for a 19 year old novice.
But hey. You’re so fast.
It was supposed to be a joke - although it doesn't seem to have been taken that way!
Don't get me wrong I like off-roading and off-road bikes (even raced them a bit) and for a while my preference was off-road motorbiking instead of road motorbiking (and I still prefer mountain biking to road biking although at the moment to a lot more of the latter). The problem on longer trips is that off road bikes (barring the really big ones) tend not to be great for road mileages - even at legal speeds. Also if the off-road bike has proper off-road tyres on it then they can have quite limited road grip (my old Honda CRM250 on enduro tyres used to be quite short on road grip) especially in the hands of a novice rider. At one point I even started putting together a DR350SE for long distance stuff (big tank, fitted luggage etc.) but got rid of it when I realised that while it was still reasonably ok off-road I didn't enjoy riding it on-road for much more that 50 miles at a time, as it was just too slow and uncomfortable compared to road bikes.
I'd quite like to a trip like the OP describes with my own son and for that I'd probably go with something like a Honda CBF250 in preference to anything with an off-road bias. Not too fast (but still with enough go to be safe in traffic) but with decent comfort, handling and grip etc.
If I was going to do a trip using off-road bikes I'd be thinking about going somewhere like Iceland and doing the majority of the riding off-road - that'd be fun.
A friend of mine from my off-roading days once started a round the world trip on a C90 and got as far as Iran before it terminally broke down and he gave up. He was a notorious mentalist though!
Could already be in France by now. #justsaying...
Rachel
No, at the start of my motorcycling years I rode a C70 from Newcastle to Wolverhampton avoiding motorways; it took 9 hours, I was almost blown off the road several times by huge trucks and the engine seized in Stafford, leaving me with piston slap.
I did Stoke-on-Trent to Pembroke on a C70. It took all day. Stopped in Llandrindod Wells for a gallon of petrol (£1). I later upgraded to a proper motorbike and discovered that you don't really have time to enjoy the scenery on anything faster than a C70.
I'd say the important thing about motorcycling round Europe is to make sure you don't just keep riding. The problem might be where to leave a bike and all your stuff while you take the time to look around.
My two penny’s worth
i would plan a trip, have a goal, Nord Cap to Palermo for example. Or what ever takes your fancy.
Bike would be your choice but something like a DR 350/400 would be fine, I once did a Tenere to Israel, Yugoslavia was memorable 😂
you will get pissed off with each other. You will get wet and tired. You will make lifetime memories.
Drivers s in Europe IMO are better behaved to bikers.
You know now how sharp the bend coming up is by the number of shrines, very handy in Greece and Yugoslavia.
Do it.
Everyone suggesting this bike or that bike, as our cheating friend once said "Its not about the bike" it doesn't matter just get out there and start the adventure. C90 or Ducati Panigale. one won't be better than the other it will just be a different experience 🙂
A restricted bike (is it 33bhp for new riders?) will be fine.
i personally wouldn’t fancy riding a single cylinder bike across europe, a twin will be smoother.
tyres/servicing will be no problem, take a couple of hammocks with you, to add versatility to your sleeping arrangements.
its looking like it’s gonna be a hot summer, go for it.
47BHP on an A2 license I believe.
I wouldn't worry about the logistics of keeping your bike going in Europe, yeah some shops want a couple of weeks, but some don't. We've got tyres fitted WYW, no probably not the brand you want, but worse case you might have to change both. Servicing? How many miles are you planning to cover? couple of sockets and spanners in your kit, buy a filter, oil and something to catch the old oil locally and you're done in an hour.
Sounds like a brilliant idea to me, yeah there are pitfalls, there always is, but it sounds like the benefits out weight the risks.
Thank you all for comments and encouragement. The point of the trip, which my son suggested, is to get him away from his current (bad) scene, try and break some (bad) habits, have time out, give him an immediate goal/purpose (pass test, ride a bike, don't fall off!), let him grow up a bit. These were his comments.
I've toured a lot years ago, and re some of the comments here, done many miles on a Honda C70! So I'd love to do it, because I love bikes and I love my son and if it can help, then there's no question. So where we're at now despite a bit of a setback with him which causes me to wobble whether it's a good or right idea but ...
- he's booked his CBT/part 1 test for this week
- he's got a start of plan - down through France, edge of Switzerland, down to Nice area, ferry to Corsica, Mrs A and other son fly out for a few days with us, ferry to Italy, loop around Italy to Dolomites where my cousin works, then up via Switzerland to Germany. All up for grabs. Predominately camping so dusting off the tiny tent Mrs A and I used to tour with! It might be ambitious Vs mileage at the moment but don't want to dampen enthusiasm, and potentially we can take our time.
- Aim for minor roads, looking at c.150 miles per day split into 3 blocks eg 1-2 hrs after breakfast, stop for coffee/break, 1-2 hrs, lunch, 1-2 hrs, arrive at campsite and chill. Include plenty of rest days
- Looking at restricting my Bandit 600 which runs really well, uprated suspension etc and then I'll get an early Tiger 800 and really load up with the gear etc, so he's got little to carry. No off-roading planned as I hate that on motorbikes!
Early days ...
Oh and any thoughts on
- clothing recommendations - textile or leathers? I have my old leathers so I'm sorted but it's so different to what was on offer 15yrs back!
- sat nav. Want to stay off major roads where possible
Thanks
Test the tent before you take it. The first night in our old Tadpole which had been in storage for the time we used family tents it rained and... .
Sounds good, keep an eye on the bikes especially in Marseille and Nice which have both won crime capital of France awards. Even campsites in SE France an Italy are dodgy, sometimes a place with a garage for the bikes is worth it for peace of mind.
I prefer textile to leather.
I went 30 yards along the road in a set of hein gericke jacket and trousers without a scratch.
They were ruined like, but that’s their job eh.
Bandit is a good call, not too big to handle and 47bhp plenty for a newer rider.
Well, if you have questions about bike travel, you need to get down to the Horizons Unlimited HUBBUK this weekend.
I’m there helping setup and the weather for the weekend looks fabulous.
https://twitter.com/rachel_norfolk/status/1006549558682415110
Rachel
I don't think it would be the greatest idea. With him currently having no experience of riding a bike to going around Europe is ambitious. Personally I would head around Scotland, then hop over to Ireland. If he is then comfortable with it then head to France and beyond. Forget planning it and just use a map, pick you next destination the night before and make it an adventure.
If not already said then make sure you have some bike to bike comms in your helmets so you can chat along the way. It also makes it safer for overtakes if the lead bike can let you know the road is still clear when they're following you.
This might come as a shock but Scotland is in Europe...
rachel
Am I the only one thinking that quite a few of the comments on this are from people who have never actually toured Europe on a motorcycle 🙂
Oh and overtakes are entirely safe without bike to bike comms, if you are relying on someone else to tell you its clear then I think you already have the wrong idea.
Am I the only one thinking that quite a few of the comments on this are from people who have never actually toured Europe on a motorcycle 🙂
As stated above I've toured some of the Welsh bit of Europe on a motorcycle 🙂
Love the idea of Scotland and Ireland (rain, cold, shit food) being easier than France, Spain and Italy.
It looks like a great trip. Definitely test the tent - once put up my Quasar in germany and had all the seam tape fall off as the glue had crumbled in the airing cupboard! Bike choice sounds fine.
Sat navs: second hand tomtom rider 2nd 3rd or 4th generation. The 4xx series look nice and have finally got the features the previous generations excelled at, but I still keep finding stupid mistakes in the OS (its frikking raining, that's not my finger on the screen, its rain you heap of clog-wearing plastic tat!). Garmin generally seem inflexible to me from a planning perspective, though good point to point on the day.
Edukator speaks wisely - vehicle crime in bits of the med can be horrific. I tend to keep away from staying on the coast.
Am I the only one thinking that quite a few of the comments on this are from people who have never actually toured Europe on a motorcycle
If your comment was aimed at me, I’m sorry to disappoint you but spent many years living in Germany, a short distance from the Harz mountains and would regular take off for Bavaria and through into Italy or go through France to the Pyrenees when I had the time off. I still ride on the continent but it is mainly two up now.
The comment about bike to bike comms. They’re cheap now and riding as a group it’s great to be able to talk with each other. When your caught behind slow traffic and you have an inexperienced rider with you, being able to let them know the road is clear is much safer then them feeling under pressure to overtake and catch up.
craigxxl So how come you think its going to be anymore taxing then riding in Scotland? Within a week he will be dialed into it and having a great time.
I use bike to bike comms with my mate now and it is great and brakes the boredom on motorway slogs, good to change plans on the move etc. Occasionally we will let someone know its clear on a blind corner. I still hate doing it though its not natural and not something to be taken lightly or encouraged really 🙂
Comment was not aimed just at you 🙂
People used to set off on round the world trips on bikes that were expected to brake down, without even all the maps for where they were going let alone a GPS.
I will repeat it really is as easy as:-
Pass test
Buy bike
Ride bike to Ferry
Repeat until Bored or run out of money or time.
If you had actually read my original post you would have seen that I hadn’t ruled out mainland Europe but suggested going around Scotland and Ireland first, both of which have some fantastic roads. As the OP had stated his son has gone through a bad patch I didn’t think it was the best idea to take him completely out of his comfort zone with roads, laws and languages he wasn’t familiar with, all whilst been a novice on a bike with nothing but your own company for hours on end. Not everyone takes to biking naturally, I’ve known plenty of people who’ve passed their bike test, bought the bike all the gear and then sold it all because it wasn’t what they expected or scared themselves shitless and the furthest they ever went was the local biker cafe. Dealers are full of used bikes with bugger all miles on them. Keeping within the UK and Ireland for the first part of their trip he can see if it’s what he really wants whilst still seeng parts of the UK they may never have seen. If it doesn’t work out then they can return home, get the car or book a flight and modify their getaway. On the continent he may feel pressured to continue not enjoying or worse not concentrating and have an accident.
The comms is an aid which can help in tricky situations whilst allowing them to talk when they want.
Yeah comms are great and can relieve boredom an be useful if there are any issues, but for overtaking when you can't see probably the least useful part of having them.
I agree loads of people pass there test ride locally for a few weeks and give up. Maybe if they went on a bit of an adventure with their Dad, rather than being scared to do anything exciting by all the people telling them how dangerous it is, they might not.
The trouble with this country now is people are too cautious, how are young people meant to develop a sense of adventure and confidence when everyone is telling them "oh better not do that you might not like it, or it might be a bit more dangerous than your playstation"
I despair 🙁
I've ridden with comms with a newbie rider. Didn't do much harm, didn't do much good. Personally I wouldn't bother in this situation, on balance it's just one more thing for him to think about. We didn't bother with comms after the first two rides.
I've also ridden in continental Europe with a newbie rider. It was easer for them than UK roads. Less junctions, less cars, better roads. I'd have no concern about that. Frankly I think it might be better if all UK riders had to do a week in the Alps/Pyrenees before they take their chances on complex and dangerous UK roads!
I'm with Bazzer: Buy a bike of almost any kind: Ride bike to Ferry: Repeat until Bored or run out of money or time.
I agree with you about people being over cautious but at the same time throwing them in at the deep end doesn’t work either. I’ve had both with all the excitement of going for a week away for the excuses to come a few days before then you end up going alone. The others that have wanted to do the Pyrenees only they don’t want to ride the twisties when you get there instead just sitting around before cutting the trip short just to do the long slog back again. One of the reasons I hate riding as a group now and would rather just grab my kit and go.
I agree its not for everyone, but a lot of people would like it if they actually took the time to increase their skill set, its a lot like mountain biking strangely 🙂
The most important thing taking a newbie on an Alps trip is your attitude more than theirs. You have to understand its not going to be as fun for you and you are not going to be able to press on like you would normally. If you do that everything is golden. So part of it is understanding the person you are with and behaving appropriately.
Instead of saying not sure if you will like it so lets not go. Say its going to be a learning curve and hard in places, but its going to be rewarding and a bit of an adventure.
I have got into situations where I have thought how am I going to get me and my bike out of here. Did I get home and say never doing that again. No me and my mate laugh at it now and its a great story 🙂
"Do you remember the time when we had that real problem in Morocco, we can laugh at it now"
or
"Do you remember when we were too scared to go to Morocco"
I know which camp I would rather be in 🙂
throwing them in at the deep end
Having ridden in Continental Europe with a newbie I'm firmly of the opinion that Continental Europe isn't the deep end, it's the shallow end! Obvs the OP isn't going to ride through the middle of Paris. They'll be on road far quieter than UK roads with far less junctions.
Biking, cycling, camping, lots have the idea of what it’s like but the reality often differs. Some embrace the rough with the smooth whilst others just quit.
I’ve never pushed anyone out of their comfort zone but gradually increase the speed or techniques. I’d rather enjoy the scenery and the flow of the bike than race around and it become a blur. I don’t ride with idiots that want to go flat out either as they tend to run out of luck eventually and you spend the rest of your trip waiting for their bike to be recovered, visiting them in hospital generally having a shit time. Ive had that misfortune twice and won’t be a third. Those I do ride with I’ve known for a long time or met them on a trip and stayed in touch.
Your right about when things don’t go as planned been the better adventures and the ones you remember most fondly. A mate had his bike bike reversed into right in front of his eyes as we were having a bite to eat. He ended up marrying the women who reversed into his bike and now lives in Tarbes at the foot of the Pyrenees
Haha love that story.
I had a farmer stop the wheel of his trailer behind his tractor on my foot on a hairpin where I stopped to let him around. I didn't marry him 🙂
I’m sure he’s gutted.