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I've been idly pondering the possibility of buying a motorbike, and was reading an article on Harley Davidsons where it was said their engines are really reliable, and good for over 250,000 miles. I vaguely remember that when I last had a motorbike service intervals were regular. However, I thought things might have improved in recent years, as some cars now have 20,000 mile service intervals.
It looks like Harleys have a 5,000 mile service interval, with an (optional?) 2,500 mile oil change/check. I see that dealers are offering a 0% interest service scheme over 30 months and 15,000 miles, obviously anticipating an annual mileage of 5,000. It works out at around £750 (plus consumables and parts) for 15,000 miles.
Most Hondas seem to have a 3,500 mile service interval.
I thought BMW might have longer intervals, so checked the K1600, and that has 6,000 mile intervals, although some owners are recommending oil changes at 3,000 miles. A major service is at 18,000 miles.
Anyway, I'm wondering why bikes need regular servicing. I can understand it for highly-stressed engines, but I would have thought that a modern low-revving four-stroke might survive on less frequent attention. Other than voiding the warranty, is there any reason why something like that BMW couldn't cope with 18,000 miles between services?
I wouldn't imagine the oil would last 18k miles when most motorbikes will rev and be used up to twice the speed of a car engine. The oil on a motorbike also lubricates the gearbox unlike a car.
Smaller sump = less oil = higher concentration of waste products in it. Same reason vans have huge service intervals - they have a bigger sump.
Incidentally re the Harley - if it's a purely American designed engine then that compares well with cars in the US where they spec part synthetic oil that needs changing every 5k miles or sometimes even 3k!
Motorcycle servicing (fluids, filters and plugs) is very easy, just do it yourself.
Valves etc can be a bit more daunting, but any bike mechanic will do them for you. Harley charge about £100 an hour
a modern low-revving four-stroke might survive on less frequent attention
eh?
triumph daytona clocks - redline at 14k, rev limiter at 16k. my cbr600 redlined at 12k, revl limiter at 15k
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if you're looking for low revving, you're looking at big preferably air cooled twins,
Motorcycle servicing (fluids, filters and plugs) is very easy, just do it yourself.
IIRC harley need special tools for changing the oil. the "born to be mild" target market doesn't enjoy getting it's hands dirty.
My Honda NC700x [i]redlines[/i]* at 6200rpm.
It requires 8,000 mile service intervals.
Based on half a Honda Jazz engine. Different powertrain approach than most other motorbikes. And great for it too - 75mpg for me.
* more "throws you over the windscreen when you hit it first time" than redlines really 😉
reading an article on Harley Davidsons where it was said their engines are really reliable, and good for over 250,000 miles
Have owned three and they need just as much attention as any other motorcycle. They're simple machines - some might say primitive - but apart from the most basic maintenance everything else is more of a PITA than it should be
I think BMW have pushed their service intervals out a bit but mostly it's just accepted that this is how bikes are so not that much impetus to change, especially if it comes at a cost of power or weight. The average mileage of a bike is generally pretty low. Also like craigxxl says, the same oil lubricates the gearbox so it gets [i]mashed. [/i]
But its not all one way- frinstance my SV needed oil roughly every 3500 miles, but it takes 2 and a half litres. My Mondeo needs oil I think every 12500 miles but it takes 6 and a half litres. So it works out not so different- more labour but the labour is very simple. In general, working on a modern bike is a pleasure compared to working on a modern car. Though not always. Tyres are a significant cost, mind.
Harleys ought to be good for longer life in principle as they generally have a heavy, unstressed, low-revving motor which is given a quiet life. Though IIRC when they put the same engines into Buells, they specced a much shorter oil life because Buells are all ridden by headbangers and Harleys are all ridden by bank managers, those that ever get ridden at all anyway 😉
Thanks. That makes sense. I had a Honda 4-stroke V-twin which red-lined at 13,750rpm, but I assumed a larger mile-eater would have a lazier engine.
It's still a bit daunting if I were riding around 20,000 miles per year. Mainly time and hassle. When I last had a motorbike I used to do some maintenance myself, but when I butchered something the bike could be off the road for a few days, and it could be difficult to get it to a real mechanic! Working outside isn't ideal either - it always seemed to be dark and cold!
Are there any bikes which are reliable and run forever on little maintenance?
The reason you need to change oil on a motorbike more often is because the oil also lubricates the gearbox and the wet clutch, hence more contamination in the oil and the shearing forces of the gears.
Most bikes these days have longer intervals than they used to. My Honda is 8000 miles for example
Most bikes aren't cheap to run. Tyres are expensive and don't last as long as a car in general too.
That said, all the running costs on my bike will be equivalent to just the fuel on a diesel car doing around 43mpg, so if you choose wisely it can be done.
Also, I get between half and one hour of my life back per commute because I'm not stuck in traffic. 🙂
I wouldn't imagine the oil would last 18k miles when most motorbikes will rev and be used up to twice the speed of a car engine. The oil on a motorbike also lubricates the gearbox unlike a car.
Most Harleys, BMWs (boxers up to '14) and Guzzis (amongst others) have separate gearboxes. On a Harley you don't need to change the oil, just keep topping it off. 😛
In addition to having small oil capacities many motorcycles have wet clutches so any material that is worn off the clutch plates will circulate throughout the engine if not trapped by the filter.
My CBR250R has service intervals of 8000miles and does 90mpg without trying too hard.
If you're looking at a motorcycle as an economical way of getting about then Harleys should be near the bottom of your list.
Ive got a Triumph Tiger Explorer and its service intervals are 10k miles. And the tyres last about 8k 😉 Gone are the days when I needed new tyres at 3k miles and a service at 6k!
Are there any bikes which are reliable and run forever on little maintenance?
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Virtually indestructible
I hadn't realised about the engine & gearbox/clutch using the same oil.
I wasn't really thinking about a Harley - far too much chrome to keep clean! I get the impression they're probably run by marketing men these days. There's obviously a huge brand thing going on.
I was initially thinking of something which uses the least amount of fuel, and was looking at the Honda Wave 110i (C90-type scooter). However, the maintenance schedule and other issues had me looking at bigger bikes. I'll have to try and weigh up all the pros and cons.
EDIT: Just seen Rocketman's C90 pic!
[i]Are there any bikes which are reliable and run forever on little maintenance? [/i]
+1 c90
[i]It's still a bit daunting if I were riding around 20,000 miles per year. Mainly time and hassle. When I last had a motorbike I used to do some maintenance myself, but when I butchered something the bike could be off the road for a few days, and it could be difficult to get it to a real mechanic! Working outside isn't ideal either - it always seemed to be dark and cold![/i]
I ran a Triumph 1050 for 20k in a year, dealer serviced every 6k. At least it meant it got washed 🙂
I always change the oil and filter in my bikes at around 3000, even though most of my recent ones (all Triumphs) have had 6000 service intervals. It's quick, easy and relatively cheap. I'm going to do the valves on this one (Bonneville) myself when it's time, too. Only a twin though. What could possibly go wrong?
I always change oil/filter on a bike a minimum of once a year even if less miles than manufacturer says, more often if higher mileage etc.
+ again for C90. We have a 25 year old step through Yamaha Townmate in the shed which doesn't seem to want to die, still alwys starts first kick and runs like a sewing machine in all conditions.
My Yamaha FZ6 (a Fazer, basically) has 10,000km service intervals.
IIRC harley need special tools for changing the oil. the "born to be mild" target market doesn't enjoy getting it's hands dirty.
Dunno, my dad sold his sportster for a BMW Serato. The only PITA on the Harley was the oil filter was a big car style canister that was awkward to get to between the frame tubes, think it needed a special hex socket to reach the nut on top as there wasn't the space for the normal screwdriver and hammer. Nothing unusual.
Oil changes take hardly no time at all to do yourself, less time than giving it a good clean! And they don't have big sumps so you're using no more oil than a car engine normally. I'd not worry about them.
Never paid anyone to service my bikes. It's really easy. Oil gets changed every year, even if under the recommended mileage, and more often if over. Plugs are easy, filters easy. There's not much more to it, other than brake pads and they're a doddle too.
I keep every receipt for maintenance items, and nobody has ever not bought a bike from me due to lack of garage service history.
Accessing the front plug on mine was a pain in the arris so I ended up fitting iridium plugs- zero performance advantage imo but that was 40000 miles ago (so I think 6 sets of replacements due) and they're as good as new. To be fair, I never did 40000 miles on a standard plug so maybe they'd have been fine too.