Anyone had one?
Looking at a 2017 model.
Mrs Zip would drive to work on electric and I'd zoom down to the coast on petrol. Loads of gizmos and no road tax.
Looks like a complete winner.
How well does a bike fit in the back?
What's the motorway mpg like?
Is it a real big beast to park? The one we are looking at has cameras galore.
Can the car heaters be turned on to warm the car up in electric mode? If it could be warm for Mrs Zip to get into and defrost the car in the winter I reckon it will be new bikes all round.
Check the real world reviews against your intended usage. I considered one but realised I’d never get to work and back on a single charge so it didn’t add up.
I believe the new model is much better.
Mrs zips round trip is 8 miles.
I think when I gave the van version a look a cursory bit of research at the time couldn’t yeild a price for replacing the battery
I am pretty sure they were known for getting very low miles on battery (as were many PHEVs of that era) and then very low mpg.
I've used one for one trip - Daventry to Huddersfield and back - MPG was mid 20s from memory. Petrol-only fuel economy is not their strong point.
A friend of mine has had a 2015 model for five years. I have co-driven it from Herefordshire to North West Scotland (600 miles each way) four times so I probably have driven 1500 miles in it. He uses it mostly for driving to his volunteering twice a week (10 miles each way) plus other local trips with the occasional longer trips.
Each time we have been to Scotland It gives about 34-35mpg on the motorway three up and well laden with stuff. Once charged ( 4-5hrs) it will now do about 22 miles if reasonably flat, less if you encounter lots of gradients, when newer that was closer to 25 so there has been a deterioration.
His general use gives him approaching 70 mpg as all but the last long drag up hill to his house is done on the electric motors.
so the positives are that it fulfils his normal needs almost entirely on electric power, it is very relaxing to drive if you are just bumbling about as with regen on its maximum setting it’s almost a one pedal car and has a reasonable amount of space. We have never tried putting bikes in it though, and I think you might have to take at least the front wheels off as the boot isn’t very tall.
The negatives are it’s relatively poor consumption on longer trips and that it has a small petrol tank- to avoid range anxiety on our trips north we fill every 220-250 miles. Oh and it beeps all the time- cruise control, lane departure etc. etc. and the built in satnav is seriously poor
the one he has doesn’t have parking sensors just a rear view camera. Having said that it is easy to place as the extremities are quite easy to judge
Don't think a 2017 would be free road tax, i'm sure they're £170 a year.
My neighbour is on his second or third, he hates it, poor electric range and performance, terrible FC when the battery decides to stop playing (gets too cold where we live, takes ages to heat up, even with the preheater running).
Only benefits are that he and his wife use an outsized kiddie seat for one of theirs, and it fits ok. They also have a small, smallholding (a nanoholding?) which they need something a bit chunky to access 3 or 4 months of the year.
He keeps getting new ones as his BiL gets it *really* cheap from work, and they only do about 6-8000km a year.
BiL works for Mitsubishi.
2015 Mitsubishi PHEV, owned for 5 years
zero tax, but tax rules changed around 2016 whereby I think if new the car costs over £40,000 you pay a luxury tax
8 mile round trip would be no problem on electric, in the coldest parts of winter we still get 18 miles of electric range
you can preheat the car whilst it is charging, but some technical gremlins means it is not straight forward, we only use this feature to defrost the car when frosty
1. charge the car plugged in
2. heat the car, which for our model drains the battery, and will not simultaneously charge
3. Thereafter top up charge the battery for maximum range
much better to use the heated seats and heated steering wheel for majority of the time
boot is big, but I still need to take front wheel off, much prefer my tow bar bike rack
Motorway mileage is around 33mpg but as 90% of our journeys are less than 30 miles, we can go many weeks between filling up with petrol
our model is 2.0litres which works but is slow, newer models are 2.4litre which must be better
lots of warning bells for door open, etc. which are tiresome but does not diminish from what a brilliant 5* NCAP car it is versatile, low running costs, we love it for our needs
it also has a 4WD lock button which is brilliant when driving around farms on electric, the tow weight limit is low, but perfect for a small livestock trailer with all the electric torque as well
I’m hoping it will last long enough until we can afford a Kia EV9
Apparently they are terrible - rubbish efficiency on both battery and petrol.
If you want to use it for both short and long trips I'd imagine the 25mpg on petrol would more than offset any commuter savings. If you can manage two cars then you may be better off with an older model Nissan Leaf. My wife drives 13 miles to work and the fuel saving pays for about £4,500 worth of loan on its own. Not the extra insurace though.
i thought they were a creation purely for a company car, BIK tax dodge
Yup, late 2015 model owner here too. I echo what the actual owners above are saying - 35mpg generally if you are doing a long motorway trip, apporaching 40mpg if you drive like a nun. A bit agricultural in handling compared to similar sized vehicles I've been in.
My battery is about 6Kw usable battery now (come out of the factory with 9Kw usable as hold back a fairly large 25% to protect the battery). If you're serious you can buy a dongle (OBD) very cheaply, download PHEV watchdog on andoid and see how healthy the car you want to buy is.
If it fits your use case, it's not a bad option if not a little dated. For us it's versatile enough to allow us to get rid of our 2nd carwhere no other option (that we could afford) would.
I’d imagine the 25mpg on petrol would more than offset any commuter savings.
OP estimates 90% of their miles being local so to avoid owning a 2nd car the PHEV sounds like a good fit to their use case. Where's the 25mpg coming from please? - it seems Honest John supports the 35mpg feedback from the 2 or 3 people above that have actually owned one?
And from the same paper: “Freddie Starr Ate My Hamster”
massive inefficient 4x4 with tiny battery, just enough to slide under the BIK rules for company cars? there are good PHEV's out there but I cant see how these qualify..
I'm sure I remember reading an article suggesting most were returned after the lease period with the charging cables still wrapped.
Ineffecient on ICE? - like you say, they are big & carrying 300kg of battery so not too disappointed as a real user with 35-40mpg
Inefficient on EV? - 6kw usable battery gets me best case 24 miles / 18 winter (4m/kw or 3m/kw). For a car that size that doesn't seem inefficient. Naturally, if your average journey is more than this then you can look away now.
I recall that news article, it had no evidence to support it and seemed just to be driving clicks by appealing to what people wanted to hear. Even if true, they didn't come with type 2 chargers from memory so they're referring to 3-pin granny cables so not surprised if they weren't used - I could count on one hand the # of times I've used my granny cable.
Look, I'd be the first to admit they have a limited use case (I'd not buy one again for example as my needs have changed) but if it hits them it's still a viable option. It's a little ironic that this isn't appreciated when EV owners (I am one of these also) then get frustrated in forums with ICE drivers thinking that because EVs don't work for their use case then they can't work for anyone.
ah, you have one. the reaction makes more sense now.. 😉
they are big & carrying 300kg of battery
You sure? The battery in my car weighs 300kg and it can take me 150 miles. Now I know that the PHEV is heavier and less aero but that doesn't sound right.
Anyway the OP might also want to check out the Passat or Golf GTE, they do more on electricity and are more efficient on petrol too.
By the way my views were based on my work-mate and my neighbour's ownership, they both hated them. But as always, YMMV, literally in this case. Oh, my other mate also had one, he hated it too but then he is very picky about cars and changes them regularly because they piss him off in a variety of ways.
You're right sorry, probably 184kg...
https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1410
Yeah, I'm sure as many people hate them as like them. I'm kind of somewhere in between, just would prefer discussion was around facts than falsehoods
For a car that size that doesn’t seem inefficient
That's like saying 'for short person you're quite tall'.
It's inefficient precisely because it's big and also not very aero. Those are disadvantages of any car, in my view 🙂
Work mate had one. As mentioned awful on fuel and very poor battery range. Took a hit just to get rid !!
I had one from the fleet at work. In 2016 everyone ordered one as a BIK tax dodge (tm)
Utterly horrid. Max elec range 20 miles, max range with a full battery and full tank about 250 miles. I seemed to be always filling it up. The company banned them quickly as it doubled the fuel bill.
It went 'bong' all the time and when you tried to hoof it up a hill it went 'moo' rather than 'vroom'
Interior quality - the plastics were somehow hard and yet flimsy. The seats were flat and unsupportive on long journeys.
Outside - when it went back it was noted that stone chips had caught above the windscreen and it had rusted through!
I was glad to see the back of it.
can the charging from the petrol engine be disabled?
Yes. It is really noticeable how much this saps the power and drops the mpg
Yup, theres a charge button next to the save button, both next to the handbrake. I can see the logic of saving the battery till you hit a city but can't really see a benefit in charging the battery off petrol, I've always assumed it's inefficient
I was being practical, comparing it to similar cars in it’s class.
I'm fat, but if you compare me to all the other people of my weight I'm bang on average! I like this idea 😉
I'm only half serious but ultimately choose as efficient a car as you can. It's quite important.
I like the idea of PHEV as well but I suspect there are better PHEVs. That said, as one of the earliest ones, it's probably one of the cheapest especially given its poor rep.
I had one as a hire car for about 3 months. I think it was a 2.5l 5 cylinder turbocharged petrol engine that acted as a generate or for the electric motor. Pretty sure it doesn't drive the wheels.
Self charging electric range topped out at 30 miles (60 if you plugged it in).
Want the heater on? 25 miles. Radio? 23 miles. Need to put your foot down to get onto that first roundabout? 15 miles left. 3 miles through town and you're down to petrol only. Lucky to get 30mpg on a long run down the motorway. Realistic MPG was low to mid 20s.
Hilarious though when you floor it off the lights. It Revs the petrol engine to 7k and you crawl along at 7 miles per hour.
There wasnt much space in the boot although my regular car was a Superb estate which is massive. It did fit my bike in with the seats down. The driving position was nice and high but it drove terribly. It didn't want to go through corners and didn't ride particularly well. I can't see why anyone would intentionally own one but there's plenty of them about so maybe it's just me. I'm guess a lot of them were sold off the back of zero road tax and low BIK value.
It will definitely pre heat the car in the mornings though. You can to program it to be ready for the time you want to leave.
i thought they were a creation purely for a company car, BIK tax dodge
<br />That’s the reason I got one.
Seemed illogical to have a weighty car that only did mid 20 mile in electric then you’re lugging around a dead battery. I was doing 450 miles commuting and had to refill at least once a week.<br /><br />Was nice getting into a preheated car on winter mornings and all round cameras helped with parking. Bike went on bars so can’t comment on boot space.
Have a neighbour who has just got a BMW X3 with the huge petrol hybrid engine, as a tax dodge. He doesn’t have a home charger and has never plugged it in anywhere. He is surprised how bad the petrol consumption is.. 🙄
New version, same principle I guess. Big heavy battery being carried about and only of benefit if used with a full charge for miles within battery range.
Big heavy battery being carried about and only of benefit if used with a full charge for miles within battery range.
when it’s lugging a big heavy ICE that’s doing nothing!
Seemed illogical to have a weighty car that only did mid 20 mile in electric then you’re lugging around a dead battery.
Not illogical at all. If you're driving less than 20 miles, electric. If you're going a long way, use it as a hybrid. Emptying the battery first then using the petrol engine to both drive and recharge the battery, that's illogical. Pretty sure you can stop it doing that. What did the manual say about that?
even when the battery is discharged the car will still have the benefits of a hybrid over a straight petrol engine (same as a prius has over a golf) - however in a big old bus that petrol engine would probably be doing 25mpg without electrical assistance, so 35mpg isn't too bad, its just not the 45mpg that a diseasal might get.
My folks have a PHEV xc40 (significantly smaller than one of these) and they only fill it up every 6 months - for them its perfect.
Have a neighbour who has just got a BMW X3 with the huge petrol hybrid engine, as a tax dodge
the engine is a 2 litre 180bhp unit. hardly eventful in a moderately large and pretty heavy (2 tonne) vehicle its about the minimum most people would consider
I know I'm comparing apples with bananas here, but I'm gobsmacked the running costs of these things compared to my last two cars.
Both big estates. Both £30 a year tax. Both manage 50mpg+, often 55mpg, on long trips, maybe 35mpg and 45mpg around the doors in town. Cheaper tyres and insurance etc.
It's a big extra cost for a car that has a little bit of extra grip in a muddy field and taller boot space...
(Fwiw, we had one as a hire car at work and the three of us who drove it find it hilarious how slowly it went despite making lots of noise as it revved out).
I don't own but did look into them.
There was a really helpful Facebook UK owners group that I joined for a while when doing the research.
I've a 40 mile round trip commute with public charging nearby but battery range degradation with age plus the meh economy for all other driving (and the fact it is a big SUV) put me off.
For the right use it may make sense but we'd have been doing way too much driving on petrol only to make it do so.
Both big estates. Both £30 a year tax. Both manage 50mpg+, often 55mpg, on long trips, maybe 35mpg and 45mpg around the doors in town. Cheaper tyres and insurance etc.
The point about the PHEV in general is that for many trips you're doing infinity mpg which is a lot better than 35mpg. The car in question on this thread though, the Outlander, is criticised for having poor MPG on petrol partly because it's a big SUV and possibly because people may not realise that you aren't supposed to fully drain the battery then let the petrol engine charge it back up again.
The point about the PHEV in general is that for many trips you’re doing [s]infinity mpg[/s] running on electricity, which is a [s]lot[/s] [b] marginally [/b] better than 35mpg.
You don't think running on electricity is much better than running on petrol?
Friend of our has one, I think she was saddled with it by her shitbag hubby when he scuttled off with his new GF, leaving the PCP in her name. She always seems to be charging it whenever we go by. Apparently it will do her shopping run (a couple of miles) on leccy.
If the use case is you need something large, expensive and mostly useless on The drive, then I guess it's a winner...
You don’t think running on electricity is much better than running on petrol?
I think using electricity to move nearly 2tons of petrol engine and 4wd SUV around is really inefficient.
I'm just reading - 2017 Outlander battery is 12kwh, so assume 13kwh to top it up with losses. At 27p/kWh that's £3.50 odd to top up. And some folk are getting 20-25 miles maximum, some less. So that's 15p/mile in leccy. My Leon 1.4tsi would do the same 20 miles in town for 10p/mile on petrol.
I'm not sure if you take the 'whole of life' efficiency this would save much compared to a more efficient vehicle. But that's the cost of a 4wd SUV.... Which was my point.
Edit:
Big car in cost more shocker...?
2017 Outlander battery is 12kwh, so assume 13kwh to top it up with losses. At 27p/kWh that’s £3.50 odd to top up. And some folk are getting 20-25 miles maximum, some less. So that’s 15p/mile in leccy. My Leon 1.4tsi would do the same 20 miles in town for 10p/mile on petrol.<br /><br />
just shows how tech has moved on I guess. My i4 would go about 45 -50 miles on 12kWh of energy, which would cost me 90 pence home charging on Intelligent Octopus. Though new EVs are very costly compared to the cars referenced
