[Closed] Mitigating the energy price rise, heating/hot water

im probably very similar to you at the moment - (system 200L +35kw boiler). The main thing im looking at is turing off the constant circulaion pump which is activated duing peak periods (for those that don't have that - I have 2 hot water pipes running round the house (flow and return - much like rads) - it stops the 5 minute run to get hot water to the taps. it's probably a bit wasteful.

cylinder manufacturer here....

if it is a modern cylinder with the proper controls (cylinder stat/Motorised zone valve), heat loss is likely to be 60-80W/hr so about 1kWh lost overnight. if its in the airing cupboard then its not 'lost'. cost of heating the cylinder fully in the evening and then letting it sit hot overnight is about 5p.

cutting down the amount of hot water used is going to save you more money than worrying about fine tuning the 'hot water' heating timings.

can you fit a low flow shower head? some have replaceable inserts to restrict the flow.

In terms of the heating, lowering the room/boiler stat controlling the heating is the simplest of the things you can do, and one that has the biggest user-influenced impact on energy use.

I have the heating on for about 45mins in the evening when it is cold (below 13 degrees in the lounge), never in the morning or during the day. I'll guess I'll probably have to make that 30 mins now.
Hot water heats up when I turn the tap on for washing up, already use the minimum possible.
I will probably have a slightly shorter shower in the morning.

I lost my sense of smell from COVID over a year ago. I think I'll just stop showering.

I'm not far off the same as SFB, I rarely have it on in the evenings at the moment tbh now though as i'm not exactly cold following the commute home then I'm at the gym or working around the house between 7-10 so only goes on when 5c or below or so outside.

Does get me worried about damp mind, I'm hoping as long as the ventilation is kept on top of all is good?

and will see if the organic thermometer notices..

😀

I've one of those too, the alarm on it is incessant....

I've given up trying to save Elec. The Wife simply cannot survive without every corner of the housing being lit night (or day) and the Teenager thinks it's only proper to leave his PC on 24/7 for others to enjoy his Minecraft Server.

I've trimmed a few mins off the timer, turned the combi down a bit and hoping for the best.

turned the combi down a bit and hoping for the best.

if its a condensing boiler , make sure you dont turn it down too low (or up too high - but I guess that is unlikely with current prices) - for the condensing heat recovery to work and therefore for the boiler to be operating efficiently ,the water temperature has to be quite set to quite a specific value. If it goes too low you could actually be costing yourself more money.

check you boiler manual for the details, but for example:-

https://www.viessmann.co.uk/heating-advice/what-temperature-to-set-condensing-boiler

im starting to think some poeple live in caves - do you not like to be comfortable?

@P-jay

Teenager thinks it’s only proper to leave his PC on 24/7 for others to enjoy his Minecraft Server.

It might be more cost effective to rent a virtual server at a hosting company, rather than leave a home PC chugging away 24/7

https://www.techradar.com/uk/web-hosting/best-minecraft-server-hosting

im starting to think some poeple live in caves – do you not like to be comfortable?

Must admit some of you must be able to tolerate the cold better than I can 13 °C? Mrs f would leave me...........

turns heating off.....

Gas isn't the issue in our house as the heating is really efficient (25 year old boiler too) but since boarding the 'last' half of the attic, our room and my daughter's get really warm, so heating goes off at 7pm, rather than 9:30.

WFH has increased electric as the conservatory runs off an oil filled radiator, and water use. That said we are now returning to the office part time, so when I'm in only I don't have the heating on as much.

My electric is a mare with a 'hot tub' and two gaming PC's

Need to educate my daughter to use the dryer less !!

im starting to think some poeple live in caves – do you not like to be comfortable?

I'm starting to think that some people have absolutely no ****ing clue that many people can't actually afford to keep their house at 18c.

I recently lowered all phases of our central heating timer by 0.5 degrees, and turned the hot water output down from 62 to 60 but as its condensing can't really go lower.

We are already 100% led lighting, so its mo'jumpers for us.

By co-incidence we are having a new back door and bathroom window fitted tomorrow both of which are 20yo and leak drafts through badly during a north/east wind.

so its mo’jumpers for us.

TV blankets are good, mine is deployed Oct-March 🙂

No heating at the moment,

Can't afford it at the price it is now never mind what it's about to become

Wonder how much I spend on electricity repeatedly filling up the hot water bottle

Return to the office starts for us next week, but realistically there's one of us going to be home most days.

Thermostat set to 18°, might need to be more selective with valves on the radiators when rooms aren't being used.

Blankets already get deployed in evenings, and sometimes working in the day.

It's my feet that get cold first, need better socks

if its a condensing boiler , make sure you dont turn it down too low (or up too high – but I guess that is unlikely with current prices) – for the condensing heat recovery to work and therefore for the boiler to be operating efficiently ,the water temperature has to be quite set to quite a specific value. If it goes too low you could actually be costing yourself more money.

I recently lowered all phases of our central heating timer by 0.5 degrees, and turned the hot water output down from 62 to 60 but as its condensing can’t really go lower.

My Worcester combi condensing boiler has weather and load compensation via a smart thermostat, and sets itself to a flow temperature of 50-55 degrees for heating. This is in line with other advice I've read about the most efficient temperature for condensing.

https://www.theheatinghub.co.uk/why-our-condensing-boilers-do-not-condense

ETA - I'm probably going to fit smart TRVs throughout the house so the bedrooms and lounge can stay off during the day without having to do it manually. I WFH so do need some heating.

TV blankets are good

How do you see what is on the screen?

I’m probably going to fit smart TRVs throughout the house so the bedrooms and lounge can stay off during the day without having to do it manually. I WFH so do need some heating.

But what's the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you're working in?

Same as SFB
Except i cycle my ch in a 30 min on, then 30 off cycle. X3 so the timer is on for 90 mins a day.
Hot water, low flow and longish run means i can get in once its warmed up. Get soaked, switch water off. Go crazy with the shower gel and then, by opening the flow slowly the combi doesn't trigger so i use the hot water in the pipe works to rinse down.
Keeps my gas bill down to a £20 a month average currently.
Thinking of a self build solar tank to feed the combi
Works out around £400, indirect tank, 30mtr copper, pump, pid controller, temp guage, prv, ally back plate, glass and some insulation.
The sun hits the south face front of my house for hours, its 9mtr long. So a box of 5mtr x 1mtr will produce alot of hot water. Cycle that through the coil with a tiny 12v pump then feed the vombi off that tank.
Washing machine is hot fed as is the dishwasher and shower obvs.

Heating only ever comes on in the evening for Mrs Pondo's return - normally 18 degrees, will knock it down to 16 and see if blankets are enough to stay comfy.

This ****ing country - it's like we're aspiring to become fifties East Germany.

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

A heater just for the one room is probably cheaper overall but a smart system gives me better control of the house - different programmes for weekdays and weekends for example. Plus my wife also WFH so we'd need two radiators.

Wonder how much I spend on electricity repeatedly filling up the hot water bottle

if you use an electric kettle, and only fill it with enough to fill the HWB (say 1Litre) then its about 0.1kWh or 2.5p.

Singletrackmind - £400 - not a chance. the tank to prefeed your combi needs to be unvented and compliant with building regs. your insurance will be void if you are found to have installed a non-compliant unvented cylinder and there's an issue.

This is what happens if you mess with hot water. There used to be a wall between the cylinder and the rest of the flat!

edit - not sure why the photo's not there but its nasty. trust me 🙂

I think I'll be buying a down suit, for the house in winter. Lots of ready brek too

We've been in the current house three years now, thankfully the previous owners paid for a very good heating system, large rads, big bore pipework and quality boiler so the house heats up quickly. Changed the stat to a modern one which can modulate flame height and monitors outside temps. So far I've been insulating everywhere like a man possessed, loft is now a foot thick everywhere, this winter I've been under all the suspended floors and installed 100mm there, noticeable difference to how long the rooms retain the heat.
I've sneakily reduced the temps throughout the day and I've adjusted times so it turns on an hour later and off an hour earlier, not been rumbled yet.
Solar panels fitted when we first moved in and we've got much better at using the generated electricity when it's available and staggering our high usage appliances. Wifey bought an air fryer a couple of years ago, turns out does a much better job of cooking and is far more efficient than using the oven.
One of the dole scrounger layabouts.... sorry... children has landed himself a full time job and moved out so hefty saving on food, water and electricity bills, one down one to go.
I'm seriously considering fitting a log burner in the spring, had one in the old house and loved it and due to a good supply of free wood made a huge dent in the heating bill, wasn't going to bother as the new house is far more efficient to run but if further rises in October are to be believed I'd rather have it than not.

this winter I’ve been under all the suspended floors and installed 100mm there, noticeable difference to how long the rooms retain the heat.

That's been on my todo list for years - looks like such an unpleasant job, plus I'd have to make a mess of the lovely Victorian floor boards to make an access hatch etc...

Sitting in a 1930's built house I'm beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical! At least with WFH we get the benefit of the heating all day.

Edit: Going under the floors and adding more there is also an option though it does already have a layer.

I’ve shaved 30 mins off the heating, 15 morning and 15 evening and will see if the organic thermometer notices..

Back to the OP, we have a thermostat on the HW tank, so whilst it goes 'on' for an hour to heat it, as soon as its up to temp, the boiler shuts off. If it's already warm, then the boiler never fires.

Sitting in a 1930’s built house I’m beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical! At least with WFH we get the benefit of the heating all day.

All the rage..

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/7486/16190586106_9fe02c0704.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/7486/16190586106_9fe02c0704.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/qEGZbj ]External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/5470/17676765655_36bf85caa8.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/5470/17676765655_36bf85caa8.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/sW33zD ]Brick and Render External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/5448/17490453049_f16b43e4a2.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/5448/17490453049_f16b43e4a2.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/sDz9kk ]Brick and Render External Insulation[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr

I'm gonna guess that external insulation and re-render is not cheap...?

Sitting in a 1930’s built house I’m beginning to wonder when replacing all the external render with insulation then render is going to become economical!

I'm thinking similar, but indoor cladding/insulated plasterboard, as we live in a stone cottage. MrsIHN isn't sure, she's wary of the interior space lost.

Is that brick slips on the lower half @footflaps. Hmm might kill two birds and hide the super soft bricks our house has. I can see the cost being eye watering though.

Is that brick slips on the lower half @footflaps

I assume so, on my cycle ride to work. Quite a few houses in that street have done the same - looks excellent 7 years later.

We're a Victorian terrace in a Conservation area so wouldn't be allowed to do that....

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

The cap is due to hit £10 a day for energy later this year if the rumours are to be believed. TRV heads at £40 a rad look cheap by comparison and the payback starts to get very short. We heat two rooms Monday to Friday for Mrs S WFH timings. Everywhere else is tightly controlled at 19C for morning and evening (not the bathroom that's a balmy 22C for morning and 20C for a couple of hours in the late evening).

Insulating under the floors on ground floor is going to require the laminate in all rooms coming up as we have a very small underfloor gap beneath the joists. That will become more feasible as energy prices go ever skywards.

I’m thinking similar, but indoor cladding/insulated plasterboard, as we live in a stone cottage. MrsIHN isn’t sure, she’s wary of the interior space lost.

I did it on a previous house, an 1860 end terrace with solid walls. Barely noticed the difference in room size (you're only doing the external walls, not all of them) and the improvement was huge.

Barely noticed the difference in room size (you’re only doing the external walls, not all of them) and the improvement was huge.

You'll be taking off over 1" of victorian plaster and replacing with 7mm of modern gypsum, so that gains you a bit of space for insulation...

That’s been on my todo list for years – looks like such an unpleasant job, plus I’d have to make a mess of the lovely Victorian floor boards to make an access hatch etc…

I've done worse jobs, but not many, I'd been putting it off since we moved in but our energy supplier went bust last year and turfed us off the nice low tariff we had so it spurred me into action.

But what’s the cost of a load of smart TRVs vs the cost of an oil-filled radiator in the room you’re working in?

I don't have concrete proof that our smart TRV's (Tado) save money as I fitted them with a new boiler when we moved into the house, but I think they save about 1/3rd off the bill. Our 4 bed detached 1979 built house is heated all day, varying between 19c during the day and 21c in the evening downstairs, never feels cold. With all that in mind, our heating bill for 2020 was only £400 for a year...

You’ll be taking off over 1″ of victorian plaster and replacing with 7mm of modern gypsum, so that gains you a bit of space for insulation…

Dumb Q, but why would you have to take off the plaster? That seems like an awful lot of mess compared to some dot and dabbing of boards over it.

Dumb Q, but why would you have to take off the plaster? That seems like an awful lot of mess compared to some dot and dabbing of boards over it.

Get the space back and make it look neater?

That's what I'd do, but you could just leave it.

I’ve done worse jobs, but not many, I’d been putting it off since we moved in but our energy supplier went bust last year and turfed us off the nice low tariff we had so it spurred me into action.

Plus I'd be endlessly thinking of the Evil Dead whilst under the floor...