Going to declare an interest here, as I work for E.ON. We make 2.3% profit on your gas and electric bills. £2.30 in every £100.00 or just over £32.00 if you are paying about £1400.00 per year.
I'm pretty sure there's not a lot of large business sectors that take such a small percentage. A large proportion of your bill goes towards environmental protection measures, (wind farms, insulation of homes) social support and distribution, all of which are mandated by the government.
And since when has the choice of 6, (large) suppliers been considered a monopoly? No-one complained too much about this "broken" market for years while energy prices were low did they?
edit - And the reason for our creaking infrastructure and lack of investment is primarily because the govenment hasn't developed a coherent energy policy for years.
Tthew - and you noticed how no one talked about ROI or ROCE only profits? Funny that? Chukka was also stunned when asked to comment on future trends in global energy prices!!!
THM - it's the chapter after 'using taxpayers money to bail out bankrupt banks' 😉
Different book again Binners!
would you have imagined that the single most important initiative that your party would propose would be a two year price control on energy? Was that top of anyone's list?
Nope not in our* wildest dreams could we imagine Ed would actually have an initiative let alone an important or a well thought out and useful one
(check out the purple ties next week
I cannot work out if you are toying with us or you know a secret from the Illuminatti!
* I am not technically a labour supporter as I am actually left wing
If he was so worried about the rising living costs then he could have removed the tax on energy, but then that would mean a loss of money for the government, so not a cat in hell chance he'll go for that.
This is the deal breaker for me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24218329
I definitely won't be voting Labour.
Fill up already crowded areas with more houses, expand the existing towns, don't worry about the roads. Gridlock.
Scary.
Going to declare an interest here, as I work for E.ON. We make 2.3% profit on your gas and electric bills. £2.30 in every £100.00 or just over £32.00 if you are paying about £1400.00 per year.
[img] http://www.cyclechat.net/attachments/gas-prices-retail-v-whole-001-jpg.29863/ [/img]
This is the deal breaker for me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24218329
I definitely won't be voting Labour.
Fill up already crowded areas with more houses, expand the existing towns, don't worry about the roads. Gridlock.
Scary.
I don't they're proposing more people, just more houses.
Does anyone actually beleive what any politician (whatever party they represent) says when they're trying to get elected?
They all sound like they're lying and look like they're dreaming.
Outside of the whole debate of what is or isn't right as an acceptable margin for a company to make, what will the implication be for share values if some kind of fix is put in place?
If share values drop, that in turn would potentially affect the value of pension funds that are corporate investors in the energy companies. How would the people who are saying renationalise or regulate feel if that course of action sliced their pension pot?
It goes a lot deeper than some simple "fat cat making massive profits" argument.
DezB - Member
This is the deal breaker for me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24218329
I definitely won't be voting Labour.
thats actually a vote winner for me
Aren't a lot of the privatised utilities now in the hands of private equity anyway? So overall I doubt the impact on pension funds will be significant anyway
This is the deal breaker for me http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24218329
Is this just outright nimbyism or are you thinking about your buy-to-let investments? I can't for the life of me think how, in the midst of a major housing shortage, anyone could think that building more houses is a bad thing.
Sticking new houses in already existing urban areas is a good idea for transport of goods and people too, public tranposrt (in private hands) is viable in these locations, there are likley to be jobs locally, walking and cycling can be encouraged. It's all good (assuming the appropriate legal agreements are in place to provide suitable amenities as well).
Oh Dezzy baby.....
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Aren't a lot of the privatised utilities now in the hands of private equity anyway? So overall I doubt the impact on pension funds will be significant anyway
Er, where do you think the PE funds get their investments from? Yep, they include institutional investors....
On the face of it, he's pitched this roughly in the right place: on the side of you and me, rather than "big business". It's a differentiator to challenge the Tories.
However, it feels frustrating that, in order to assess whether this is really a workable policy, we're all going to have to do due diligence on the big energy companies to review their EBITDA and determine what proportion comes from retail gas and electricity, and what comes from all the other things they do.
centrica -4.9% today
If share values drop, that in turn would potentially affect the value of pension funds that are corporate investors in the energy companies. How would the people who are saying renationalise or regulate feel if that course of action sliced their pension pot?
Well the pension funds only hold about 6% of the value of the stock market. Maybe we could actually increase that if we didn't have to blow so much of our monthly wedge on energy.
Same goes for building new houses if we can start pushing down house prices maybe the next generation won't be so trapped by the monthly mortgage payment.
It's not the strongest idea really is it? It's a bit worrying that it seems to be being presented as a flagship policy...
The whole UK economy is facing strong headwinds in terms of current and future sources of growth. We're fighting to adjust to globalisation and the increased competition and change in balance of power this is bringing, capitalism clearly needs closer management to tame the swing from boom and bust...
The Tories are not exactly showering themselves with glory in what is supposed to be their strength - managing the economy...
And this is the strongest reason Milliband has given so far to convince us to vote labour...
My monthly outgoings are c£2.5k. The main component of that is my rent at £1k. My gas and electricity combined is £50... so holding down energy prices will save me what, £10-20 at most? I could save that my going out one night less a month...
So even as a populist vote winner it's hardly the strongest idea is it?
The mind boggles about the discussions these guys are having about how to deliver stable economic growth and stable living standards...
"Same goes for building new houses if we can start pushing down house prices maybe the next generation won't be so trapped by the monthly mortgage payment."
lol
You forget one incey wincey little thing....
People.... all people.... every single man jack one of us.... are greedy.
People will always try to better themselves... and thank goodness for that... otherwise we'd still be living in caves.
And if that was the case, guess we would have to worry about iphones/home entertainment/pouncy watches/stupid big cars... or heaven forbid... a bike for p1ssing about in the woods on ... let alone those big mortgage you are worried about.
brooses
This isnt Labours only announcement, its the one the press and in particular the tory press have picked up on and run with
the new home building plan has the potential to seriously affect the housing crisis and lower your rent
MILLIBRANDS lost the plot
I wasn't aware he had a plot to lose.
Frankly I'd prefer another 4 years of the current bunch of incompetents compared to Millibrand.
My monthly outgoings are c£2.5k. The main component of that is my rent at £1k. My gas and electricity combined is £50... so holding down energy prices will save me what, £10-20 at most? I could save that my going out one night less a month...
Lucky you. There are lots of people out there who go hungry so they can keep the lights and the heating on.
A fair point Kimbers. Everyone's on about the price freeze. But he also said he was going to break the big 6 energy companies up (god knows how!), which I would have thought had far more long term implications for the energy market, re: long term investment and pricing
And I really can't see how you could be too bothered about building new houses, unless you're a baby boomer presently using your house (well... its equity) as a cash machine to pay for shiny things and holidays, and are dependent on maintaining the present ludicrously unsustainable pricing, and constant above inflation increases
Kimbers - (to be fair) front page of The Labour Party website today is a summary of Ed's speech. And the first policy annncement is freezing energy prices. So hardly a conspiracy to highlight that this was positioned as the flagship policy and/or one of the top 5 policy initiatives.
Binners - on your favourite topic of the housing market, it is another funny aspect of the capitalist (?!?!) system that we (apparently) live in, [b]that taxpayers money is used to help first time owners buy over-priced properties[/b]. That seems to be another missing chapter!! You couldn't make it up.
I think the biggest thing that the media have ignored (probably cos it's a vote winner) is the childcare announcement. That's going to save a lot of people a lot of money, and a huge amount of hassle, and will be a huge vote winner assuming the tories don't steal it.
Indeed thm - the present taxpayer funded help-to-buy nonsense was described by an EU finance minister as the most insane economic policy he'd ever seen. And he's probably seen a few.
Lets set up the perfect conditions for the next credit fuelled bubble, and subsequent crash, shall we? But how could we make it far worse this time around? Hmmmmmmmm.... we could put the taxpayer directly on the hook for the losses. Brilliant!!!!
In the face of Osbournes answer to the housing crisis, Millibands policy looks like the very model of common sense, and I don't know anyone but the most incredibly stupid or terminally self-interested (both?), could argue for the status quo, with a straight face
And I really can't see how you could be too bothered about building new houses, unless you're a baby boomer presently using your house (well... its equity) as a cash machine to pay for shiny things and holidays, and are dependent on maintaining the present ludicrously unsustainable pricing, and constant above inflation increases
Guess it depends on how far you think they can take this policy … one day confiscating privately owned land bank… (most of which is down here by the way….. there’s been little point in house builders owning land up by you, where most of unused land is council owned ) … the next, forcing second home owners to sell up…. and then finally, making you rent out your spare room.
[i]Is this just outright nimbyism or are you thinking about your buy-to-let investments? I can't for the life of me think how, in the midst of a major housing shortage, anyone could think that building more houses is a bad thing.[/i]
Well, you northerners don't live in the overcrowded south where they take already overcrowded towns and expand them. They are not catering for people who live in the area - they are attracting new people to move into the area.
And I'm far far removed from any of the "baby boomer' 'buy-to-let' owner or any other of the bollocks spouted.
The childcare thing will also be good for the economy getting people back to work quicker and improving education standards too
"In the face of Osbournes answer to the housing crisis, Millibands policy looks like the very model of common sense, and I don't know anyone but the most incredibly stupid or terminally self-interested (both?), could argue for the status quo, with a straight face "
Strangely enough, it turns out that the developers are not evil capitalists, intent on making "hard-working families" suffer by denying them somewhere to live. Amazingly, they actually want to build houses, cos that's what they do. But, they can't build them unless they are confident someone can afford to buy them. So what is needed is a "help to buy" scheme. Oh, hang on, we've got one of those already. And look, it's working: "Over the 12 months to June 2013, housing starts rose 7% to 110,530 compared with the year before."
[i]walking and cycling can be encouraged[/i]
Evidence that you don't think about the real world. People don't walk to work. 99% of people don't cycle to work and wouldn't even if they could.
[i]So what is needed is a "help to buy" scheme.[/i]
Yeah, I was looking at help-to-buy scheme houses. They are the ones that are priced £20K over the local pricing to take advantage of the scheme, yeah?
Dezzy baby. We agree on that then. The answer isn't to carry on building more and more houses in the south. The answer is to make some attempt to re-balance the countries economy. Surely that benefits everyone. And building a £50/80/100 Billion pound train set isn't actually doing that
Based on what he said I may actually consider voting Labour next time. I certainly wasn't going to vote tory.
But, saying that, I actually work within the energy industry and all the hand-wringing by the big firms must be taken with a large amount of salt.
😀
Oh, hang on, we've got one of those already. And look, it's working:
If artificially inflating a bubble for already overpriced properties, in one very specific area of the country, is your definition of working, then I suppose it is, yes
How quickly Do we seem to forget the years of muppet based gov spending by Labour. Each time the Tories drag our sorry backsides out of the u bend just in time for the general masses to have utter memory loss as to who put us down there in the first place. Then Tories sell off state services and we all lose.
Politics in its current form (which seemingly hasn't changed since the creation of the Labour Party)utterly leaves me cold. Bunch of useless weirdos that you avoided like the plague when you went to school with their sort and now they get over paid to pick at the bones of what was once our great empire.
Reality check! We are a small voice on a big blue ball and there are more pressing issues we can all fix with a bit of common sense. No more nanny state, no more taxation of this, that and the other. No more sweeping statements about saving this and freezing that followed by hand bags at dawn until the media get bored.
Politicians, please just quietly get on with sorting our country out, so people can have jobs and pride in themselves. Everything else is window dressing. Stop it and sort it out.
Well, you northerners don't live in the overcrowded south where they take already overcrowded towns and expand them.
Yeah it's pretty desolate up here. There's so much room the roads are free of traffic, there's no need for tower blocks and everyone lives in a nice semi with front and rear gardens, a garage and a driveway 🙄
The answer isn't to carry on building more and more houses in the south
They'll be built where the jobs are i.e. south, as builders need to sell them.
We can all band around 're-balancing the economy' as a phrase, but I've seen little evidence of anyone achieving it. In fact taking money from the energy companies is not going to help, as all it says to business is beware if you do well in the UK the government will take your profits, hardly attractive to investors.
How quickly Do we seem to forget the years of muppet based gov spending by Labour.
GO agreed to match labours crazy spending before the US sub prime market went tits up and collapsed causing the global crisis- it was not the labour party which caused the worldwise slump in western capialsim now was it ?
What next - You going to argue the Tories would have regulated the finacial services industry tighter than Labour did to avert this
DP
[i]Yeah it's pretty desolate up here. There's so much room the roads are free of traffic, there's no need for tower blocks and everyone lives in a nice semi with front and rear gardens, a garage and a driveway [/i]
Exactly!
Well Binners we have come on a long way since the crisis. A crisis that had its roots in the combination of abundant (excess) liquidity and (artificially) low interest rates. Today we have.....oh hang on, ......abundant (excess liquidity) combined with (artificially) low interest rates. How times have changed, That's progress for you!
So for the next irony. Labour goes for the inequality argument and we all know how income inequality has increased steadily since the 1970s. But what is the inconvenient truth here? Well between 2010/11 and 2011/12 I come inequality has fallen. But how, these Tories have policies designed solely to penalise the very rich (Reeve's £150k club) and hurt the poor. And yet, Income is now shared more equally. Why? The household income of the richest households has fallen 6.8% while the poorest has risen 6.9%. But those nasty tax brakes? Well the top households now pay more tax, the lowest the same and the seicond lowest less. Funny old world!
Of course, where low income households have suffered is indirect taxation - generally regressive forms of tax. So will the Tories outsmart Labour with cuts in indirect taxation next week?
(Balls should keep quiet about the ONS since its their data on income inequality that puts the argument in some doubt!)
