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What Realman said. Unless you really are that thick.
Not so thick that I don't have my own opinion, find it difficult to express in my own words, or find it necessary to just repeat the comment of a previous poster
ooOOoo - MemberChanging lanes is dangerous
You might just have hit the nail on the head
middle laners are scared of the big bad lorries in lane 1 and as for lane 3, well that's too fast!
😉
I genuinely heard someone say that on a phone in 😯
Ok, maybe your middle lane driver and mine are confused.
What i'm saying is, that when i'm doing 70+ in the middle lane i'm not going to pull back in all the time to overtake the next truck every 20 or so seconds. Seems to me staying there for a bit is a better idea than screwing it all over the 3 lanes.
Do people actually do 55mph on the motorway in the middle lane? Can't say i've seen much of it.
Yeah but everytime you do that, only 1 car can overtake you. If you pulled in, 2 cars could overtake you.
Come on, changing lanes is fun 😛
Observation: No one minds a middle-laner that does 80mph+
It's the ones doing 58mph that really grip people's shit.
buzz-lightyear - MemberI just don't understand how they feel safe trundling along in the centre lane - do they not notice juggernauts bearing down on them in their mirrors?
Clearly it is not just middle lane drivers who are afraid of the big bad lorries
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about people who stay in the middle land regardless of speed or traffic conditions. Not people who just use the middle lane.
[i]Do people actually do 55mph on the motorway in the middle lane? Can't say i've seen much of it.[/i]
Yes, I've seen plenty of it. And I will just ignore them and undertake. They don't even notice so there's no danger involved.
It's time we adopter the US approach -overtaking inside as well as outside. That'd wake the middle lane hogging Mr McGoo's up!
And yeah, entirely agree with Wozza, unless someone is right up my arse and the outside lane is blocked then there is no point pulling in if I'll have to pull out again a few seconds later.
I'd say I wouldn't bother pulling in if I'd be in for less than around 15-20 seconds.
Likewise if the road is totally empty behind me then I might not bother pulling in at all if there are cars ahead that I am gaining on.
It's the people approaching you from behind you should be considering. (as GrahamS says in the last line)
[****t]"But I'm doing 70 and that is the speed limit"[/****t]
Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're talking about people who stay in the middle land regardless of speed or traffic conditions. Not people who just use the middle lane.
There are very few of these.
If all three lanes were clear ahead and behind, middle laners would probably take the inside lane, but it wouldn't actually matter.
If there is a lot of traffic, then all lanes move at about the same speed, once again the choice of lane is irrelevant, in fact switching lanes tends to slow traffic down across all lanes.
If I'm doing 70 in the left hand lane and I come across someone doing 55 in the middle lane then passing them on the left is not an undertaking manouvre on my part as far as I'm concerned (assuming the left hand lane is clear a safe distance ahead of us both). They're contravening the highway code so they're doing it wrong not me. Simple as that isn't it?
You overtake people when in the inside lane? Well, thanks for your recommendation, but it think that's quite dangerous, besides which, it is prohibited.
If I'm in an empty first lane doing 70, and you're in the middle lane doing 55mph, then which is safer; passing on the left, or making four lane changes to get past you?
Passing on the left is pretty safe IME, most of the time the person you're passing is so oblivious to the world around them that they haven't even noticed you, and they're so glued to the lane that they aren't going anywhere. The only time it's ever an issue is when people do it intentionally.
Contrary to popular belief, it's not illegal. You might be 'driving without due care' if you're doing it aggressively, carving through traffic, but I don't do that.
Fortunately their cars are usually fitted with that big bright red warning light on the back to let everyone know that their mirrors are defective thus making good observation an impossibility, and that their accelerator is stuck in the same position regardless of gradient.
If all three lanes were clear ahead and behind, middle laners would probably take the inside lane, but it wouldn't actually matter.
Sadly, that's simply not true.
They're contravening the highway code so they're doing it wrong not me. Simple as that isn't it?
Moreover, you're allowed to pass slow-moving traffic on the left. Rule 268:[i] Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.[/i]
[i]If all three lanes were clear ahead and behind, middle laners would probably take the inside lane[/i]
Then they aren't a middle laner. Middle laners don't change lanes, except when entering and exiting the motorway. Surely you've seen these people?
Outside lane of the slip road at 50, brake brake brake to "merge" onto the motorway... indicate, skip out to middle lane. Cruise.
They do exist you know!
If I'm in an empty first lane doing 70, and you're in the middle lane doing 55mph, then which is safer; passing on the left, or making four lane changes to get past you?
Making the lane changes.
Passing on the left is pretty safe IME, most of the time the person you're passing is so oblivious to the world around them that they haven't even noticed you, and they're so glued to the lane that they aren't going anywhere. The only time it's ever an issue is when people do it intentionally.
You mean you accidentally undertake?
Contrary to popular belief, it's not illegal. You might be 'driving without due care' if you're doing it aggressively, carving through traffic, but I don't do that.
In general you are supposed to stay in the kerbside lane, unless overtaking. Seems to me undertaking may be more dangerous and problematic than middle lane 'hogging'
Tell me who else there is to consider, except for those going faster than about 70, who then only have to overtake. Why do you find it so hard? You might need a motorway lesson from your instructor.
Are you for real? 😯
DezB - Member
[i]If all three lanes were clear ahead and behind, middle laners would probably take the inside lane[/i]Then they aren't a middle laner. Middle laners don't change lanes, except when entering and exiting the motorway. Surely you've seen these people?
No, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
I'd say I wouldn't bother pulling in if I'd be in for less than around 15-20 seconds.
If you can be undertaken by a car doing the speed limit in that time, you're in the wrong lane.
To the ones using "I'm doing 70 so you're speeding" as an excuse, it's probably worth bearing in mind that it's not your job to maintain the motorway speed like some middle lane vigilante. Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, there's every chance that your speedo is underreading, so whilst you're being all smug about doing 70 you're probably doing nearer 60 and wondering why everyone behind you is getting frustrated. For instance, at 70mph, my speedo reads around 77mph.
There are very few of these.
If all three lanes were clear ahead and behind, middle laners would probably take the inside lane, but it wouldn't actually matter.
Maybe they just all decide to drive when I'm about then?
Their behaviour is particularly curious when three lanes go down to two. They'll sit in the middle lane when the only traffic in sight is a faster moving car a few hundred yards behind (and thus in the slow lane) gradually catching up with them and then when the overtaking lane merges into the middle lane they continue on usually for a good few hundred yards in the now overtaking lane. Passing on the inside seems to usually trigger a similar delayed reaction to change to the correct lane.
I'm sure it's almost all down to lack of observational skills and thus fear of blindspots when changing lane, plus an irrational fear of being boxed in the slow lane and squashed by a lorry. By sitting closer to the front of the car they feel they can see further forwards but this plan is usually foiled by an inability to focus on anything more than two car lengths ahead...
PeterPoddy - Member
[i]Tell me who else there is to consider, except for those going faster than about 70, who then only have to overtake. Why do you find it so hard? You might need a motorway lesson from your instructor.[/i]
Are you for real?
Yes, I am. But until now, I hadn't realised that changing lane to overtake was so difficult for some people. Especially if they are such 'good' drivers that they can go so fast in their cars.
i play with the middle lane hoggers at are doing 65ish mph
just before the middle-lane-hogger overtakes a lorry overtake the hogger in the outside lane
pull back into the middle lane, now in front of the middle-lane-hogger
take foot off accelerator and slow down to match the speed of the lorry, typically slower than the hogger
wait for a reaction from the hogger
it's amazing how many hogger slow down! though i had a hogger overtake today!
yes, i know, it's annoying of me
No, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
Seen this while driving at night, on an empty motorway, some numpty sat in the middle lane on a deserted motorway?
Cougar - MemberFor instance, at 70mph, my speedo reads around 77mph.
So far you've recommended undertaking on the motorway and told us that you drive with a defective speedo. Please do excuse me if I don't take your advice on safe driving practice too seriously
Making the lane changes.
If the first lane is empty, the middle lane has a myopic twit in a Micra, and the third lane is full of sales reps doing 100mph bumper-to-bumper? I think we'll have to agree to differ there then.
You mean you accidentally undertake?
You misunderstand; I mean, middle-laners who intentionally change into the left lane when they see they're being undertaken.
In general you are supposed to stay in the kerbside lane, unless overtaking. Seems to me undertaking may be more dangerous and problematic than middle lane 'hogging'
So it's ok to sit in the middle lane as there are other people doing arguably 'worse' things?
No, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
Then you can't do much motorway driving, or live somewhere I don't (like the moon maybe). I see it on a daily basis.
told us that you drive with a defective speedo.
I hate to break it to you, but everyone drives with a "defective" speedo, outside of the emergency services. It's illegal to have an under-reading speedo and difficult / expensive to manufacture an accurate one, so most consumer speedometers underread by about 10%. Test yours with a GPS sometime.
Dougal, the probably think 'this guy is a bit of a c0ck, likely to do something else dangerous soon. Not much to be gained in trying to second guess him, better just take it easy and get there 5 minutes later, chill'
Cougar - Member
Test yours with a GPS sometime
I have, it's fine, on both my current cars and both my previous ones
If most speedos, under read by about 10% it seems like a pretty easy fix.
Seen this while driving at night, on an empty motorway, some numpty sat in the middle lane on a deserted motorway?
I had this once, joined a motorway with a couple of other cars on it. First lane clear to the horizon, one car in the middle lane and a couple overtaking in the third. I moved into the middle lane and blipped my headlights to alert them to my presence, and they changed into the third lane.
To this day I've not worked that one out. I can only think they were tourists.
If most speedos, under read by about 10% it seems like a pretty easy fix.
It's not broken, it's by design. If you have a perfectly accurate speedo, then the driver comes along and sticks a few extra PSI in his tyres, hey presto, illegal speedo.
Passing on the left is pretty safe IME, most of the time the person you're passing is so oblivious to the world around them that they haven't even noticed you,
It frigging well is NOT safe, because people are not expecting you to do it! If MLHs are oblivious to the world around them then chances are they won't see you flying up their inside when they finally do decide to pull in.
DO NOT undertake, kids! It makes for bedlam on the roads. Drive on i294 around Chicago for an example of this!
That's just pure unjustified speculation, if the over / under reporting of all speedos was due to tyre pressure (which is entirely plausible) then there would not be a uniform 10% under reporting in all speedos, would there? Unless we all have our tyres a the same pressure.
nah, the dangerous thing is when i go up the inside lane faster than those in the outside lane!
the middle-lane-hoggers pi55 me off
usually in a rover /ford
It frigging well is NOT safe, because people are not expecting you to do it! If MLHs are oblivious to the world around them then chances are they won't see you flying up their inside when they finally do decide to pull in.
Who said anything about flying? I'm talking about doing 70, not 140 and weaving through traffic, and am always watching for erratic behavour in other drivers.
DO NOT undertake, kids! It makes for bedlam on the roads. Drive on i294 around Chicago for an example of this!
I don't live in Chicago, so it's a moot point. It's a simple fix though, if people didn't hog the middle lane, I'd never undertake. I'd never have to, and I'd never be able to.
Slightly off topic but what is it with people who tailgate on single carraigeways. I see it all the time, like yesterday travelling back down from Fort William.
Why sit five feet from the car in front constantly on and off the brakes. Either overtake or sit back the proper distance so other traffic can overtake.
. I moved into the middle lane and blipped my headlights to alert them to my presence, and they changed into the third lane.
LOL
CharlieMungus - MemberNo, I've never seen someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around.
CharlieMungus - MemberSo far you've recommended undertaking on the motorway and told us that you drive with a defective speedo. Please do excuse me if I don't take your advice on safe driving practice too seriously
10% over-read on a car speedo is fairly normal. Some makes are worse for it than others, a Nisaan Terrano I once owned needed to be showing just over 80mph on the speedo to do a real 70mph as measured by GPS.
Charlie, just wondering where you live when you say you've never seen "someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around".
The motorway network in northwestern england (M62, M57, M6, M56, M60) must have your share then!
there would not be a uniform 10% under reporting in all speedos, would there?
Where did I suggest it was uniform? I said "about", some are more, some are less. They're built to a tolerance, unlike many road users.
Speedos have to be calibrated to show a higher than true speed when the car is new to make sure that they never show a lower than true speed as the car ages and part tolerances shift. They're more accurate than they used to be but still usually 5mph too high at 70mph on the original tyres when new and correctly inflated.
Different tyres at different pressures shift things quite a bit and worn and under-inflated tyres can result in your trusty keeping-to-just-under-70-middle-lane-sitter actually travelling in synchrony with the HGV in the slow lane that's hard against its 56mph limiter.
Just let your foot off the accelerator!
I had a guy tailgating me a couple of years ago. Coming to some traffic lights on red and I let the car roll to a halt, he went ballistic because I didn't use my brakes!! 😯 ****a!
Underreading speedo here too. Mine is aboout 6 miles fast at 70.
Almost universal in my experience, hence why performance tests on cars never rely on the speedo alone
Charlie, just wondering where you live when you say you've never seen "someone sit in the middle lane when there are no other cars around".
Well, when I see them, there is usually at least one other car around
I'd hope that you see them from so far away that there is no justification for their road position. Or are your usual motorways unusually bendy?