MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
Seriously what's wrong with folk? I'm sure many a person on here has done certain things in the past and possibly are still doing so, and some would say alcohol and fags are just as bad, but who first decided to give it a whirl? It's bloody plant food ffs! Youve got to be slightly tapped IMO to just randomly try something like that!
It's bloody plant food ffs!
no it's not it's a synthesised drug by chemists to mimic the effects of khat.
but who first decided to use it as plant food?
It never was plant food - just a marketing ploy.
Dont believe what you reard in the newspapers chap!!
Its one molecule different from MDMA (Extasy) - it was designed as a drug to get high on NOT feed plants!
Only a crazy fool would consume it, the BEST drugs are always green!
🙂
TT you beat me to it, try it you might like it.
Some of the lads I was at uni with thought they could tell if pills had been spiked with rat poison, and were particularly keen on the ones they thought had been.
People just like getting off their tits!
It never has been a plant food
it's just another chemical right... the fact it can also be used to feed plants, just one of the things it can do (along with getting you off your tits).
Now the one that gets me is 'Cane Toad licking', kids back home do this to apparently get a hallucegenic high... ****in weird and rather gross really!
It's bloody plant food ffs
It's not plant food they just label it this way to avoid some customs legislation or another, the did the same with piperzine based legals a while back.
[i]but who first decided to give it a whirl?[/i]
Same goes for any "drug" ??
I guess you're talking about Mephedrone? the BBC seem to be doing a great advertising job for it lately.
aparently it is nearly as dangerous to the human body as another popular drug doing the rounds at the mo 'Tamiflu'
both fashionable in different ways!
We worry about additives/E numbers in our food and fats etc then take some random chemical.
People are soo bloody thick- let them do it if they are adults.
What makes me laugh is these people think they are happening/out there
Only the same as snorting some random white powder bought from a dealer who says its cocaine - its more than likely cut with talc, paracetemol, caffine tablets and whatever else they fancy putting in there.
Some people choose to take drugs, some don't.
The chemists will always be one step ahead of the government, do you think drug dealers will just give up and take up gardening or something?
They've been slow to ban it but only because as yet there is no hard evidence to show that it is dangerous. The process is only as obscure as those used to develop medicinal compounds.
Once it's illegal it'll just go the same way as LSD, speed, cocaine and ecstasy and become more expensive and more likely to be cut with far more dangerous compounds.
I've never understood the logic of making any drug illegal.
It doesn't stop people getting hold of it, it doesn't stop people knowing it's dangerous.
All it does is enrich the dealers, trap and impoverish the users, and prevent proper regulation and safeguards.
what i dont get is the police asking us to dob in friends that have it saying they want to get it off the streets- its not even illegal yet, what buisiness is it of theirs
[i]We worry about additives/E numbers in our food and fats etc then take some random chemical.
People are soo bloody thick- let them do it if they are adults. [/i]
I very much doubt those that take drugs like this worry about a few E numbers and having too much colouring in their food.
Ok, poor use of the plant food statement but look at the bloke who died last week, was he mid 40's and described as a party fan! What would posses you at that age to do something so random? I can understand young kids etc, cheap, easy to get hold of, legal, but at that age just seems odd!
[img] 
[/img]
How close the legal and illegal drugs are.
People have been experimenting with mind altering substances since the first person tried eating fermenting fruit or chewing a cocoa leaf. They're not going to stop now.
Reports of the two deaths and subsequent editorial teeth gnashing seem to focus on the one drug when it seems "Withnail and I" were too drunk/high to tell what they had taken. It may have been BabyBio or cat litter.
wrightyson, some people never stop their old lifestyle. I know people still taking LSD, weed, Pills etc etc on a regular basis since the early 90's.
+1 Hora
Yup have some friends the same, however it seems like it's the ones who haven't experienced the joys of being a mum or dad yet!! Kids have no mercy for someone who's been out on an all nighter!! 🙂
we bump into people at club nights who were in the 'scene' in the early nineties and we knew at the time.
they are split between people who are still caning it every week and are a complete mess and those who have moved on and dip in and out of the same club scene for the music.
Wrighty- some of them even dress the same (or at least similar). like a mad timewarp but they look thinner-skinned/less flesh.
What would posses you at that age to do something so random?
it seems like it's the ones who haven't experienced the joys of being a mum or dad yet!!
Why's anyone else bothering to post?
[i]I've never understood the logic of making any drug illegal.[/i]
I guess it boils down to responsibility.
If you classify something as legal to injest then you are also taking on the responsible of ensuring that it's safe to injest. Now you could argue that it's down to an individual's responsibility to determine what they should take, but alas, individuals are also quite often idiots, and will assume that if a government has sanctioned something then it's ok.
Obviously the real-world is slightly more complicated than the above paragraph though 🙂
Class A stepladders anyone? They're not safe.
How close the legal and illegal drugs are.
A pointless and irrelevant diagram.
The addition of a single oxygen atom, like the ones in the picture you posted, can have a serious effect on the molecule in question. Add a single oxygen atom to a normal oxygen molecule and you get ozone. Breathing one of these molecules is essential to life, breathing the other will kill you.
If you classify something as legal to injest then you are also taking on the responsible of ensuring that it's safe to injest.
*cough*
[img] 
[/img]
ah but they decided that was bad for you AFTER they started taxing it
[i]cough[/i]
Obviously the real-world is slightly more complicated than the above paragraph though
double cough 🙂
Things are not classified as legal they are classified as illegal!
Looking forward to people lighting up near me outside Cafe's etc. Hateful dirty habit.
I don't smoke so was utterly astounded when a woman in the garage was asked to hand over 14 quid for her two packs of b and h the other day! They wanna use some of that revenue on tar for the ****in roads at the minute!!
sit inside then, hora
as way of a distraction, while keeping OT
[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/mar/22/charlie-brooker-newspapers-dangerous-drug ]Guardian Take on it - Amusing[/url]
Question is, why try to synthesise it when it's fully legal in the UK in its original form (Qat)?
Breathing one of these molecules is essential to life, breathing the other will kill you.
Not strictly true, breathing one O3 molecule won't kill you, in fact breathing loads of them is only vaguely linked to cancer, but if you swapped one for the other you can be fairly sure it'd kill you 🙂
@soobalias. Quality article!
To quote "alcohol (which spins the inner wheel of judgment into an unreadable blur)"
🙂
I have quite strong views on this whole ridiculous situation. I have experimented (a lot) in the past with illegal drugs and have come out of the other side quite fit and healthy (and before anyone says it, I know drugs effect different people in different ways). I am now older (albeit only 28) and have two children and have stopped smoking and for the most part drinking as well, but for the odd occasion that I would go clubbing or to a festival (probably only 2/3 times a year these days) or something, the herbal legal highs were always nice to have, as an option, instead of going for overpriced street $hite that you have no idea about ingredients wise. Being an adult I think you should be able to have that option there for you as long as its a) done in moderation and b) are well informed and sensible about what you do and what you mix things with etc.
These deaths that have occured recently that have been linked with Methadrone is purely speculative (as far as I am aware, feel free to correct me on this one) to the fact that it was that drug that killed them, I could almost guarentee that they have probably mixed it with other chemicals and no doubt drank a shedload of alcohol and not even bothered to keep themselves hydrated etc. What the hell do you think is going to happen to you?
It was like when the goverment banned mushrooms, something which has been consumed by man for thousands of years, because of possible metal illness risks. Yeah I would imagine you would go round the loop if you ate copious ammounts or on an every day basis, but again, thats the same with any drug, legal or not.
In my eyes its just all ridiculous PR bull$hit to gain vites for taking a tough stance on a drug that (lets face it) not even they know anything about let alone joe bloggs.
So is anyone on here going to admit to having tried it?
They banned BZP which had nowhere near as much hysteria and press around it so expect mephedrone to be gone by the end of the month.
I have to say, there has been some fantastic Brass Eye-esque media reporting surrounding it. Reminiscent of an article in The Sun from 1989 about a rave at an airfield
“at the end of the night the floor was covered in empty ecstacy wrappers”,
😆
im not one to let facts get in the way of a good story.
but..
mephedrone and methadone are not the same
legal highs have more risk associated by their very nature.
not sure anybody has made that confusion here, just a few spelling anomolies
All that will happen when M CAT gets banned is a bigger payday for dealers, as the street price goes up and the purty goes down, when it'll get cut with all sorts.
The usual Daily Mail and BBC hype to scaremonger
Being an adult I think you should be able to have that option there for you as long as its a) done in moderation and b) are well informed and sensible about what you do and what you mix things with etc.
Problem is that many people are a) incapable of self moderation and b) very poorly informed and incapable of determining what should or shouldnt be mixed. The public is, in general, not that clued up.
As for "natural" - have you seen some of the chemicals found in herbal drugs, pesticides etc used by the growers to improve growth and pest resistance? Not sure I like the idea of that any more than something a chemistry set turns out.
SouthernYeti - I have indeed tried it a few times, we were after a legal ecstasy subsitute, so went to out local helpful head shop in Manchester (Hermans) and enquired about such a thing (that actually worked). Were given two packets of pills called 'bubbles'. They were good, but did not last long, which was fine for us! Did not actually know that the active ingredient was methadrone until remembering the slogan on the packaging which read:
'Plant food only - keep well watered' (incidently I found this highly amusing whist under the influence as being quite a clever way around customs as well as being subtle in what to do whilst on them...but thats drugs for you).
BigJohn - MemberI've never understood the logic of making any drug illegal.
It doesn't stop people getting hold of it, it doesn't stop people knowing it's dangerous.
All it does is enrich the dealers, trap and impoverish the users, and prevent proper regulation and safeguards.
tjr666 - MemberIn my eyes its just all ridiculous PR bull$hit to gain vites for taking a tough stance on a drug that (lets face it) not even they know anything about let alone joe bloggs.
Totally agree.
Bring drug production and sale under control of government agencies with proper facilities for the manufacturing thereof, then sit back and collect all that lovely VAT & whatever narcotax is added. The budget deficit that McBroon has so magnificently overseen would be gone within a generation, dealers would be left high (guffaw) and dry both in this country and overseas, and the Daily Fail would have pretty much nothing to get frothy-lipped about and go the way of the Dodo. It's a win/win/win situation.
Bring drugs under control of government agencies with proper facilities for the manufacturing thereof, then sit back and collect all that lovely VAT & whatever narcotax is added.
Aye, because we don't get fake cheapo cigarettes or people smuggling stuff in now on those either?
As for "natural" - have you seen some of the chemicals found in herbal drugs, pesticides etc used by the growers to improve growth and pest resistance? Not sure I like the idea of that any more than something a chemistry set turns out.
Some, yes I agree, but again thats where the being informed and having the intelligence to do a bit of research on the stuff you are going to be knocking back first comes in. Only makes sense, and I am mainly pointing to herbal drugs such as morning glory, baby woodrose or dried fly agaric mushroom etc. natural, non additive malarky (yes, there maybe some pesticides used in growing etc, but taking the morning glory for example, garden centres spray them with a chemical which will make you very sick if ingested, whereas the ones from a head shop will been 100% non contaminated)
Some, yes I agree, but again thats where the being informed and having the inteligence to do a bit of research on the stuff you are going to be knocking back first.
My point is that it's generally the young and uninformed/drunk that try them anyway, most other people have grown out of it by the time they're capable of really considering and researching it. Teenagers know that unsafe sex spreads kids and disease, but they still do it despite massive education campaigns and free contraception; do you really think that they'd think and research their choice of drug? They drink white lightning and the like for christs sake, they'll get the cheapest drugs they can and take absolutely **** all notice of common sense. It's not the adults who sometimes have a brain that we need to protect.
But I was not like that when I was a teenager, I looked into things a lot first before attempting anything, I think the difference is made when you are taking drugs to 'get smashed oot yer head lik' or to enjoy an experience.
Just natural selection at work again maybe? 😉
oh yeah and Frosty Jack is way cheaper than White Lightning.
IMHO all drugs should be legalized, taxed, licenced and sold over the counter much as fags and booze are. Then all dealers should get 10 years for selling as they do now-first offence-life for second offence. That would clean up the whole grubby drugs scene and de-glamourize it.
But I was not like that when I was a teenager, I looked into things a lot first before attempting anything, I think the difference is made when you are taking drugs to 'get smashed oot yer head lik' or to enjoy an experience.Just natural selection at work again maybe?
Two thoughts on this. IMO Anyone who looked at drugs a lot and didn't take the "it'll be fine, they[re only rare cases" view would not take them. And just because you did think about it, does not mean others will, in fact you'll prob find the ratio is about 10:1, most will just go with what their mates are doing.
Frosty Jack was never about when I was a kid, it was Hooch 😀
Stevie, probably would be the best idea, but also one that will never happen. Also there are some drugs that you just should not even 'experiment' with, like Heroin, Crack/Cocaine and the likes, selling them over the counter would be ridiculous, presription for current addicts, possibly (in fact has this idea not already been put forward?)
tjr666-whether vile drugs like smack and crack should be sold over the counter-morally-is moot-people WILL take them anyway so we may as well control it. That way the terrible quality of drugs prepared by the gangsters running them now-ie cocaine cut with Vim/bleach powder-would be sorted and weaker strains could be supplied.
This is as neart as we have to objective evidence about teh relative potential for harm with drugs.
[img] 
[/img]
No one size fits all approach will work -different drugs require different approaches but it is clear that prohibition as we have it has failed totally - since prohibition started in the 60s more and more drugs are consumed and more and more harm is done.
Myself I would want governments to use an evidence based approach and view it as a public health issue not a criminal one.
All that will happen when M CAT gets banned is a bigger payday for dealers, as the street price goes up and the purty goes down
Probably not.
When BZP was banned it dissapeared.
Mephedrone took its place.
Ban mephedrone and it will dissappear and something else will take its place.
How's that chart work TJ? Is that the likelihood of being damaged by one attempt at use? Or what?
Ketamine has no class?? Seriously??? That is the one drug which, over the last few years, have watched take hold in some friends in an almost scary fashion. It just destroys you. People who were once reasonably intelligent and fun loving people turned into dribbling no brain idiots by that stuff. Why people take that at clubs I will never ever know.
On closer inspection, that is pretty out of date...cannabis is a class b now for starters.
tjr666-I've seen that happen with crack-that drug is pure filth and consumes users almost totally within 12 months. Crack dealers are as close a case for corporal punishment as exists.
Yeah I agree, why can't people just have a joint and a nice belgian beer/Red Wine and leave it at that 😀
Why people take that at clubs I will never ever know.
they do it wrong for a start
Or a slice of space cake and an ice-cold Peroni Nastro Azzuro 8) !
[i]tjr666-whether vile drugs like smack and crack should be sold over the counter-morally-is moot-people WILL take them anyway so we may as well control it.[/i]
The problem is that once legalised you create business opportunities that didn't previously exist for nominally legitimate companies that don't really benefit society.
I as an MD of a small pharma, could patent a chemical, that allthough gives a fantastic high, is also highly addictive and causes multiple organ failure after a couple of years of use.
Under the let's legailise everything concept, I can sell it, make loads of money, then a year later when everyone's liver's fail, say sorry guv, not my problem, the government said it was fine, it's for them and the NHS to sort out.
No sane government would ever sign up to such a general principle.
If you wanted a regulated system to avoid shysters like myself, then you'd have a system simlar to what we have with presciption drugs, which would mean that pretty much the same amount of things that were legal before, would be legal after.
@Ian-under my suggested plans your new drug and it's unscrupulous producer would receive 50 lashes and 25 years in clink.
i suspect there's a fairly thin line between what big pharma will do to make money and the lengths drug dealers will go to to stay in profit!
:tin foil hat:
Tj, What does the "mean value" relate to on the y axis of the graph. I can't see how alcohol Is more harmful than tobacco? Surely tobacco is related to far more deaths?
If I plea-bargin can I get a spanking instead?
[i]Under the let's legailise everything concept, I can sell it, make loads of money, then a year later when everyone's liver's fail, say sorry guv, not my problem, the government said it was fine, it's for them and the NHS to sort out.
No sane government would ever sign up to such a general principle.[/i]
Indeed no government would sign up to such a thing, but under even current legislation it [i]would[/i] be generally your fault if your product was knowingly killing folk, so problem solved for the government
@wrightson I had assumed there was an element/factor for links between the substance and violence/crime in the score. Alcohol would score more highly for that than tobacco as far as I am aware.
The drug harm index assesses all the various harms and associated costs to society.
It combines robust national indicators of the harms generated by illegal drugs into a single-figure time-series index. The harms include drug related crime, community perceptions of drug problems, drug nuisance, and the various health consequences that arise from drug abuse (e.g. HIV, overdoses, deaths etc.). To enable a single index to be constructed, the harms are measured consistently according to their relative cost to individuals and society.
Also there are some drugs that you just should not even 'experiment' with, like Heroin, Crack/Cocaine and the likes
Why not? Armed with the right information, a good (preferably pure) source and a modicum of intelligence I don't see any reason why not. Cocaine is relatively harmless in moderation and if not in combination with alcohol. Heroin is one of the safest drugs out there if taken properly in the right amounts with a pure/uncut supply (they gave it to my missus whilst giving birth so go figure!). Crack I can't comment on but I have friends who've dabbled who are perfectly sane and who haven't become the stereo-typed crack whores you see in the papers.
All of them should be legalised and freely available, with no exceptions other than maybe an age restriction.
[i]Indeed no government would sign up to such a thing, but under even current legislation it would be generally your fault if your product was knowingly killing folk, so problem solved for the government[/i]
Which would mean that you wouldn't be able to sell the stuff that people want legalised 🙂
Under the let's legailise everything concept, I can sell it, make loads of money, then a year later when everyone's liver's fail, say sorry guv, not my problem, the government said it was fine, it's for them and the NHS to sort out. No sane government would ever sign up to such a general principle.
Well the government is obviously insane then as this is exactly what they're doing with alcohol and cigarettes. Sure it may take more than a year to f*** up your liver/lungs but the principle is no different. You might have a point if you could say with certainty that taking a particular drug will guarantee your death or irreversible injury, but the trouble is that with most (if not all) recreational drugs you can't.
+1 dazh
Publicised deahs from mcat? publicised deaths from alchohol? Did Leah Bets die from ecstasy or from a cocktail of ecstasy and alchohol? How many deaths from asprin paraceetamol, ibuprofin have been splassed all over the tabloids? There is always an agenda behind what we see and read. I think that some people need to open there eyes a little wider. One of the reasons illegal drugs are so lucrative for dealers and potentiall dangerous is because of the illegality of them. If they were properly controlled + taxed by the government they would be alot cheaper and safer. Also alchohol and cigaretts in certain circumstances are by far the most destructive drugs available. Just look at the vast majority of down and outs in you city centre they're drinking cider and smoking fags.
Leah Betts died from ignorance. She took an E on top of alcohol and painkillers, She panicked and she thought water acted as an antidote. She drank so much water she got cerebral oedema from diluting the electrolytes and died from that. E being illegal didn't stop her taking it. If it wasn't illegal she could have got proper health advice and wouldn't have died. Its a classic case of why prohibition is wrong.
That is kind of my point. There was still an anti ecstasy campaign from her parents and some tabloid papers. Where as it was the legal drugs and water that had the greater impact on her. I believe and I'm not 100% sure on this but I believe that no one has ever died soley from ecstasy.
I love how people on here talk about it being dangerous when 600 people every quarter are killed or seriously injured on the uk roads whilst on a bike. We ride bikes for the fun and it makes us feel great. millions upon millions of doses of mcat have been taken over the last year and two people have died. Surely it's just another experience people have the choice to experience or not that also has risks, its not illegal (yet) so drug dealers an not making money out of it, i really dont see why people are so hostile towards it??? when we get on a bike we all know one slip and we could be finished but no-one is rallying for biking to be illegal, or horse riding or any other activity involving risk, almost all of which seem huge compared to mcat.
Leah Betts died from ignorance....
Exactly. I've often said whilst debating this subject with various people that Leah Betts was killed by prohibition and the sensationalist Brass Eye style coverage of drugs in the media.
Education and a mature facts based approach is and always will be the only effective way to deal with the drugs 'problem'. The fact that we can't do this says an awful lot about the society we live in.