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i would be to told to man up you wuss. but where do you draw the line and not have people abuse this? what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?
i would be to told to man up you wuss.
Which is the problem in a nutshell.
what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?
The same evidence you would need to show for a sick day specifically for physical health - none whatsoever if it's less than a week.
what evidence would you need to show its a sick day specifically for mental health?
Do you ask for stool samples when people have a sick day because they've got the shits ?
(Edit- what cougar said 3 seconds earlier and slightly more eloquently 😉 )
Presumably to raise awareness of issues that some people might trivialise or otherwise pooh-pooh (you know, like putting "sickness" in quotes in a thread title for instance)
I hope you didn't read my quotations as me poo-pooing it. As someone who has just finished a period of counselling for exactly these issues, it is absolutely not my intent. The quotation marks were intended to convey that people are finally becoming aware enough that it is a condition just like a cold or other physical ailment and that taking a 'sick' day to prevent it becoming a major problem is perfectly valid, and that people will accept it as a valid reason.
Sorry - some people; others are still in the pull yourself together camp that damages so badly.
To be fair, that's down to the article (and the headline) specifically saying it was an Out Of Office message.
So we can really easily identify the (vast majority of) people who didn't actually read the article, just the headline and started frothing. It would be a bit weird as an OoO, but as it's clearly an email we can just delete most of the responses and start again!
Thanks for your message.
Please be advised that I'm off work currently as I have the lurgy. If anyone wants me I'll be in bed with a Lemsip rub and a hot mug of Vicks. I'll get back to you as soon as I can on my return.
Do you own novelty ties, and think they're hilarious?
some of her developers were off because they were feeling a little stressed
How the hell do you know she was 'a little stressed'? You're part of the problem with posts like that.
I used to pull sickies in my first job. Going straight from the exciting fun life of a student surrounded by a proper group of mates for basically the first time, and exploring the world of everything; to a crushingly mundane 9-5 in a new city on my own where I got bollocked for 9.05am by a guy who was like Alan Partridge without the laughs - well, that was a bit of a shock and I struggled.
There were days I just couldn't face going in. Not because I had a diagnosable mental illness, but because I hated it. I delivered my work though and put the work in when the pressure was on.
How wrong was I?
I hope you didn't read my quotations as me poo-pooing it.
To be honest, I simply didn't think that comment through. Cheerfully withdrawn, my apologies.
Do you own novelty ties, and think they're hilarious?
What can I say, I amuse me.
I probably still do own some novelty ties, last worn some time in the 90s. Can't remember the last time I wore a tie even, aside from my dad's funeral last year (and a Garfield tie probably wouldn't have been appropriate).
If anyone needed any evidence about why mental health stigma is a thing that exists and needs to be challenged, in the workplace or not, reading this thread should put the argument to bed.
It's basically saying that I can't handle the stress of my job
Is it? Which email are you reading? The one I've seen makes no reference to stress, work related or otherwise.
because they were feeling a little stressed
FFS seriously? You read "mental health" and to you that means, and can only mean "feeling a little stressed". Have a word with yourself. Do some reading. Seriously, you haven't got a clue.
Attention-seeking nutter
Given that there are still cavemen who would say things like that, I'd like to modify it to "Attention seeking and incredibly courageous nutter" or maybe not. Maybe labelling people with mental health issues as "nutters" actually isn't very funny and just labels the person who does that as an ignorant moron?
avoiding the stress by pulling a sickie won't solve the problem though will it?
What stress? Where does anyone refer to stress? They don't. People with no clue about mental health might make the assumption if "a bit stressed" is really the nearest they can get to understanding mental health issues.
And "pulling a sickie" - that phrase normally refers to people lying about being unwell. What sort of "nutter" would be dumb enough to do that and make up something that ignorant morons will refuse to recognise as genuine illness? You'd have to be "mad" to do that.
It has an underlying message that her employer is draconian and putting too much on her shoulders.
Seriously, have I followed the wrong link and we're actually debating a totally different email exchange from the one I've read? Nowhere does any of it state or imply that the person's mental health issues are caused by work.
(@theotherjonv (and @Cougar) TBH I had the same reaction and made the same assumption that there was something judgemental about putting "sickness" in quotation marks in the title - I'm glad you'd clarified this before I included you in my rant!)
I can see why it reads like that and I wish i hadn't now. Mental health is as real as physical health and doesn't need any form of differentiation. Again it was targeted to the colloquialism of a 'sick' day or 'sickie', where I really meant 'period of absence from work of a duration less than that where a Doctor's certificate is required' - but that wouldn't fit in the title.
And I do also overuse 'quotation marks' to make 'a point' at times.
Hey Drac, this comment here looks like criticism to me...
If you ignore everything above that you mean.
Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive. That's why the article is newsworthy in the first place.
One or 2 people have made a massive assumption that taking time off work for mental health issues must be because they can't handle the stress of the job. I had a severe episode of depression for 3 months at the start of this year. It was not work-related, in fact, I found that work kept my mind off it. I did take one day off with the full support of my manager to have a rest because I was exhausted from lack of sleep.
Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive.
yep, very sad.
I suffer with depression yet I wouldn't dream of sending out an email like that. My boss knows I suffer, that's it and to be frank that's the way I prefer it. If I'm off sick for physical reasons I'll let my boss know and that's it. It's not to do with any sort of stigma attached to mental health. More the fact that it's personal. I think this may be why a few on here are a bit baffled by the whole thing.
I'm all for treating mental health in the same way we do physical health. I just think this is a very weird way to highlight the issue. Each to their own though.
Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive.
Largely I'm cheered that they seem to be the minority.
I just think this is a very weird way to highlight the issue.
It's a short email presented out of context. Her team could be three people all of whom are already aware of whatever her condition is and 'hey, it's flared up again' could be a perfectly natural message to send out to them rather than some vague handwave that she's not going to be in for a couple of days which might worry them unduly.
Her boss's reply thanks her for sending the email and says "every time you do..." which would imply that there's a history here rather than it being an out of the blue notification of her illness. Retweeting that in and of itself might not have intentionally been a means of highlighting the issue but rather "hey, my boss is awesome."
Largely I'm cheered that they seem to be the minority.
True.
The stigma is starting to move but there's a still large portion of people who fail to accept how serious mental health can be.
Maybe the article is selling the story wrong probably part of it but still a strange email to send out. I'm on restricted duties just now, those that need to know why have been informed by the process. I won't be sending out an email to all management of why this is the case, just no need.
[quote=jamj1974 ]Bit disappointed by this thread. This place is usually a great place for mental health support and awareness. Sadly, it appears some dinosaurs still survive. That's why the article is newsworthy in the first place.
THIS
I applaud anyone and any organisation that takes the time to challenge the stigma around mental health and pro actively support its staff
Being to told to "man up you wuss" is as useful as saying the same to someone with a broken leg. Yes they might get through the day but it is not making the illness any better and may well do harm.
It's a short email presented out of context. Her team could be three people all of whom are already aware of whatever her condition is
Not anymore, it's now pretty much anybody on the internet. The fact it's presented at all is what I find odd. I wouldn't send an email about any sort of illness be it mental or physical. Probably just me that finds it odd.
Like I stated previously, I suffer with depression, very badly at times. I just find this approach slightly bizarre. I wouldn't email my colleagues or my boss to say "hey I've got the black dog again. Been thinking about ending my life, so I'll be off for two or three days" in the same way that I wouldn't send a mail saying "Caught the bad cat aids, will be off for a fortnight"
I just find that level of sharing in a work environment to be strange. No offence meant to anyone and if it helps to highlight mental health issues, that's great. I'm just not sure it does that in the best way.
How many of you on this thread would contactv anyone other than your direct manager about literally any personal issues?
I just find that level of sharing in a work environment to be strange
I don't doubt it. My point was though, work environments aren't all alike.
You're right Cougar. I'm looking at it from a personal rather than a big picture perspective. I just wouldn't do it in any place I worked. If it helps highlight the way mental health is perceived then it can only be a good thing I guess
How many of you on this thread would contactv anyone other than your direct manager about literally any personal issues?
I would and have ranging from HR to other colleagues
Depends on what the issue is and what help you need
Then again I work for touchy feely third sector employer so we may not be reflective of the cut and thrust real world of capitalism.
One in four people will suffer mental illness. I have, I was lucky it was a minor short lasting problem. I overcame it in a few months with support from friends. I didn't tell my line manager as I have no confidence in him. I would have used the counselling service my work provides as it is entirely confidential but distance ruled it out.
There is still a huge stigma attached to mental health issues perhaps some of that is rooted in poor information or lack of knowledge about mental health
[url= https://www.samh.org.uk/about-mental-health/being-there-for-someone ]SAMH[/url]
Drac - Moderator
They'd say: "Why didn't you just contact us, do you want come counselling?""Can we do anything to help?"
"Shall we meet for a coffee and a chat?"
"Do you want to report you absence or shall we?"
Then support would be offered with a return to work plan when ready.
Probably happens in a big company or the public sector, but unlikely to be even thought of in a SME, hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.
Also the management will probably have no appreciation of mental health isues or training into how to handle the illness tactfully and with respect.
Probably happens in a big company or the public sector, but unlikely to be even thought of in a SME, hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.Also the management will probably have no appreciation of mental health isues or training into how to handle the illness tactfully and with respect.
The support I mentioned is all very new less than 5 years old. The battle to take away the stigma is still on going but being won gradually. If a big company can do it so can smaller ones, supporting staff for any illness is achievable mental health is no different.
If a big company can do it so can smaller ones
you missed this bit...
[t]hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.
TurnerGuy - Member
If a big company can do it so can smaller ones
you missed this bit...that need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.
I presume these small place must be the ones that ban employees doing extreme sports like cycling or skiing to ensure their staff dont take any days off for physical injury?
TurnerGuy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is "man up".
you missed this bit...[t]hat need all the staff working to just survive and pay the bills.
No, no I didn't supporting staff can mean they don't go absent or leave to find an employer that cares.
But a lot of employers dont want to touch a person with diagnosed mental illness, some dont understand the treatments available or have never met anyone who has a mental ilness. Theres so many different diagnoses and diferent forms of mental illness, that may well not fit in with the companies oter staff or customers/consumers.
Then are there the jobs out there to just jump from employer to the next, so many chasing so few jobs.
Bit of self censorship
tomhoward - Member
It's not an automated out of office is it? Just a note to her team explaining why she's off?
Correct, which begs the question who is the dirty grass who forwarded it to the CEO hoping to get her into trouble?
theotherjonv - MemberI suspect we've all had them, those days where you've just had enough and need to take a day out to 'decompress' (other jargon is available)
What would your work / boss say if you put this as your out of office?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/cc1ab625-3180-4017-b8c8-5e54b4828d4b
Are you like me and feign the flu / the shits instead?
nope, I've had to take time off work because of mental health issue. My wife had to phone them up which is "against the rules". When I went back I talked to my manager and everything was fine. Every time we get a new manager I explain my illness to them.
But a lot of employers dont want to touch a person with diagnosed mental illness, some dont understand the treatments available or have never met anyone who has a mental ilness. Theres so many different diagnoses and diferent forms of mental illness, that may well not fit in with the companies oter staff or customers/consumers.
That's no different from any other illness though you're reflecting the stigma that it's hard to deal with and employers don't know what to do. They just need to understand that people need help when unwell no matter what the condition is.
Then are there the jobs out there to just jump from employer to the next, so many chasing so few jobs.
Jobs or no jobs not supporting staff means they will leave or stay off longer.