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I... asked you if we had a mop?
Reading between the lines, and I may be wrong, it reads like you did a little more than that?
"have we got a mop that's actually a mop?"
I'm guessing that means your partner, not you bought the mop which you are clearly unhappy with? ("flannel on a pole" affair which is of little use"). Phrasing that question in that way does I'm afraid sound a little sarccy, critical and judgemental. And possibly, to someone on the receiving end who isn't in the best frame of mind that you are talking to them like they are a POS? I very much doubt that you meant to, but that kind of sarcasm can wear people down, especially if they are vulnerable hormonally.
I'm honestly not trying to be an arse, nor underestimate how frustrating these exchanges can be for both parties (39 years married). I've definitely been guilty of similar and had to pull myself up for it. It sometimes takes an impartial onlooker to give you perspective on how your words can come across.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house. I know my mops perfectly, we've got the stringy type with a telescopic handle, two of them. They're cheaper and work better than the flappy sponge things. But for 2 litres I'd get down on my hands and knees with the absorbant car wash sponge. 🙂
66 hilly km on the roadie tandem today. Perfect harmony, I didn't once comment on how hard she was pedalling and the destination was the Lindt factory shop. 😉
Back on topic, the menopause arrives at different ages. For one of our neighbours it was 35. Madame was relatively late with a start at 52, the two worst years around 56 and then zilch - normal.
I'm with Cougar on this one - my better half has a maddening habit of using the wrong term for stuff that there's no wrong term for. The most egregious is 'charger', which can variously mean plug, USB cable, or power bank. I'm just supposed to guess which one she means, I suppose?
Phrasing that question in that way does I'm afraid sound a little sarccy, critical and judgemental.
Yeah, that jumped out at me too. If I was feeling tired and shit, I wouldn't want to have to unpack what the questioner's definition of 'a real mop' is, and how it differs from the mop in the kitchen, before answering their snark.
(And if my partner really was that unfamiliar with the basic cleaning amenities of the house we share, I'd probably become further disheartened)
The issue here is if these things happened in isolation, it's easy to rationalise, empathise, turn the other cheek, suck it up, laugh it off - whatever.
But these exchanges are usually against a backdrop of years of escalating friction and aggravation. Ours follows a 3 exchange cadence. By the 3rd exchange, there are raised voices etc. I've run out of patience and understanding. It's a finite resource and sadly, it's all been used up.
A lot of sympathy for all those also trying to navigate this minefield. It seems to hit women at a point when life gets more complicated with teenagers or kids leaving home, elderly parents, career pressures, and in our case, existing and deteriorating disability issues, and my own mental health battles.
We don't have rows, we never have. We have a great range of tutting, side eye and huffing, and an ability to make me feel like shit for little reason.
Luckily we have a bed big enough that we can avoid each other in comfort.
This thread... The common ground is both reassuring and slightly depressing.
Agree, but equally it's making me realise I've got it relatively easy compared to some of you!! 😬😬
Certainly puts a different perspective on things.
Wishing everyone the best!!
Reading between the lines, and I may be wrong, it reads like you did a little more than that?
I take your point. And yeah, I could've worded it better. But there was no previous, it's not like we'd been arguing earlier. I'd kept out of her way all day and was making her tea.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house. I know my mops perfectly,
and
(And if my partner really was that unfamiliar with the basic cleaning amenities of the house we share, I'd probably become further disheartened)
Historically, I've always done the mopping. Like, my whole life, well prior to my current relationship. When we moved in together the mops which came to the new place were mine. She promptly replaced them all and took over that detail. Which is fine, if she wants to do it and wants to use tools she prefers then who am I to argue. What subsequently happened to mine I have no idea and up until two days ago had little reason to care, they might have been tossed out (one certainly was) or could have been stuffed in the cellar (I've spoken about 'hidey tidy' before).
The implication that I'm so lacking in the housework department that I doesn't know one end of a mop from the other isn't justified I'm afraid.
Holy crap, I just read someone being sanctimonious about they're "mop knowledge"
It's not Audi Estates and Wood Burning stoves that's peak STW anymore. I wonder when it's going to progress to "what Sanatogen for the over 70s".
So mops and tidy-tidy were already an issue, Cougar. You weren't just asking her if there was a mop that was actually a mop, you touched a nerve:
You were acusing her of throwing away your beloved old mop that's actually a mop without asking (you would be justifiably annoyed), accusing her of having lousy taste in mops (she might find that annoying), accusing her of having an irritiating habit of hiding things rather than putting them away where they should be (I sympathise with you this one really is annoying) which was reviving an on-going dispute.
So her reaction was a mixture of defence and the best form of it, attack. Possibly. 🙂
The alternative was saying nothing and mopping up the 2 litres with the washing-up sponge or using her lousy mop. Then making her a cup of tea and asking if there's anything she'd like when you go shopping tomorrow and is there anything that's priority when you do the laundry, and if she fancies sex it's her turn on top.
Not just ladies of a certain age who are having hormonal issues and mood swings. Calm down dears.
Not naming names, but there does seem to be an element of passive aggression in some of the responses on this thread.
Not naming names, but there does seem to be an element of passive aggression in some of the responses on this thread.
Are you new here?
Well Cougar's mopgate is a good example of how the most trivial shite becomes the biggest bone of contention/hill to die on. Good will and tolerance are eroded to the point where the most mundane discussion can suddenly erupt into a full blown row.
It's obviously on both sides, but the ability to soak it up and turn the other cheek diminishes over time (IME). This means the most trivial things that would just pass before, are escalated into world ending issues.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
But there's the rub. You ride out the storm in the hope that it will pass and the person you love comes back. If they don't, you discover you probably can't afford to walk at this stage in life.
It's very, very damaging and difficult to recover from. It's not like you knowingly married the person that they have become. In fact, it's possible you'd have avoided them like the plague but here you are, sympathising, understanding and sucking it up. If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
You may think that, I couldn't possibly comment.
But there's the rub. You ride out the storm in the hope that it will pass and the person you love comes back. If they don't, you discover you probably can't afford to walk at this stage in life.
Amen.
Even just a couple of decades ago and certainly pre 2000 most couples were winding down in their mid fifties with kids almost off their hands, mortgage mostly paid off and retirement on the horizon. Menopause came hand in hand with a reduction in stress.LOL, if i'd have stayed n my first job, i'd have been retiring in 3 or 4 years according to the current rules, in my mid 50's. On 80% of my final salary. (They closed the scheme a month after i joined).
As it is, my mortgage still has 24 years to run, the earliest i could afford/be allowed to retire (based on current projections) is 63 or 64 (against a state age of 67). My kids won't be leaving home for another 10 years. My partner is going through the early stages of perimenopause with a very aggressive 11 year old in the house and the less said about her ex partner the better. So she's on a hair trigger a lot of the time. She has also missed about 15 years of pension contributions due to the nature of her work/study. And her research group has officially entered it's last 18-24 months before it's wound up.
So stress is off the charts. For both of us.
I've got it relatively easy compared to some of you!!
Did I say this already, too? I've been told "I've got it easy in this department". I wasn't in the mood to hear that at the time, but can probably appreciate that. Thing is, its not consistent - some weeks (generally weekends actually) are just unbearable. A day or two later, its like nothing happened but I'm still reeling / scarred from it which makes "being friends" hard in the good times because I'm still processing the maelstrom.
Just replying so i can subscribe to this. Going through the mill at the moment. Depression ME and HRT all involved so its nice (not in a want others to suffer but more im not going mad) to see others having to navigate this as well.
HRT + MDMA. Sorry not very helpful but it seems to work for us. 🙂
(It also helps that my Mrs is borderline ADHD and is so ridiculously busy that I hardly see her)
So mops and tidy-tidy were already an issue, Cougar. You weren't just asking her if there was a mop that was actually a mop, you touched a nerve:
Mops have never been an issue, I just let her crack on. I couldn't care less.
Hidey-tidy, yes, absolutely, and if you'd have said "where have you hidden my ****ing mop" I'd agree with you.
if she fancies sex
Se... no, you've lost me, sorry. We held hands yesterday?
Wow.
I thought it was just me.
+1 to most of the above.
I once tried "if I said to you, what you just said to me, then you would explode" after being spoken to like shoot. Reader: it did not defuse the situation.
Head down.
Carry on.
Try and find some points of occasional light in the gloom.
Noone to talk to about this.
The (now adult) children see lots of this, but I can't undermine their relationship with her, or talk to them about this at all.
And therin lies the problem, Cougar. You don't even know if there's a mop that's actually a mop in the house.
With Ed on this one. You should really know what cleaning materials exist in your house. It's a bit like asking how the dishwasher or washing machine works. I suspect the response was less to do with the menopause and more to do with a lifetime of feeling like she's the handmaid? Or next time it happens just respond with "Me Man! Earn money. You Woman! Do the cleaning'. 😀
Those that have partners that are having a really torrid time of it, are they actively looking at the solutions, help, advice and work arounds. Or just letting it happen and trying to see it through?
As if they arent trying to help themselves, its unlikely you can help them. Which sucks.
The dishwasher logistics were too complicated, I wash up by hand. I quite like using the washing machine, it's easier than fishing tissues out of the pump and picking the white flecs off clothes. 🙂It's a bit like asking how the dishwasher or washing machine works.
Thing is, its not consistent - some weeks (generally weekends actually) are just unbearable.
Seasonal too IME I've just confirmed with the lady concerned that hot flushes were a Winter thing. Summers I remember being largely stress free.
If the tables were turned, it'd probably be called abuse.
This might be unpopular, and I'm not specifically making this comment in relation to the menopause.
There is a whole bunch of excuse-making going on in our culture generally and it needs calling out.
I am not disputing that your medical condition, mental health, or background childhood buried trauma is real and is affecting you.
But it does not give you an excuse to act like an absolute ****
There's only so long people's patience is going to last, especially if you refuse to take responsibility for your behaviour and do nothing about sorting it out and/or refuse help when offered.
I'm not all anti woke - but some people just take the absolute piss and use it as an excuse for themselves. It's not acceptable.
Where on earth does "woke" come into this? What a weird thing to say.
Well maybe it's the wrong word but you know what I mean, and that's a bit unnecessarily snappy eh?
Pot, kettle etc.
We thought that HRT was all the same, but the pharamacist ran out of the prescribed one so gave Mrs N a different one which was way better, have now changed the prescription. Watching Riot Women on the tv is a good opportunity to have a laugh about it.
There's only so long people's patience is going to last, especially if you refuse to take responsibility for your behaviour and do nothing about sorting it out and/or refuse help when offered.
What happens if the person with the problem is unable to be responsible? A bit of compassion and empathy wouldn't go amiss.
To clarify, I'm not saying there should be no patience and understanding at all.
I absolutely agree that people do have problems that affect them and do need compassion and help. But if it goes on for an extended time, and the person in question doesn't respond to any help you are offering, does not maybe even see it even as a problem they have to grapple with your help, and also acts (as above) in what could be seen as an abusive manner towards you...
...then at some point you are going to have to start to think about prioritising yourself.
Edit: what you consider to be an extended period of time, or what constitutes abuse and how much you can put up with, is a personal thing. And it's probably being clear in your own mind, for decision making, what those boundaries actually are, for you.
We thought that HRT was all the same, but the pharamacist ran out of the prescribed one so gave Mrs N a different one which was way better, have now changed the prescription.
Very true!
Having had estrogen levels checked my wife found that the patches she had were very ineffective as well as giving her dermatitis. Not sure what the brand was (i'll find out if you're interested) but switching to another type has really helped.
So worth bearing in mind if assuming HRT isn't helping - have the follow up blood / hormone tests done!
Possibly also worth noting that Hypothyroidism can lead to some similar symptoms that may then lead to the sort of behavioural issues described in this thread. So if getting bloods done, ask if thyroxine levels can be checked.
Well maybe it's the wrong word but you know what I mean, and that's a bit unnecessarily snappy eh?
Pot, kettle etc.
If you're going to use "woke" pejoratively then it's always going to provoke a reaction I'm afraid.
@cougar Eh? I don't understand your point at all.
I was not using 'woke' as a slur. Go and re- read what I wrote.
I'd go so far as to class myself as being woke (to a point at least woke-ish) because it represents my values of considering other people's perspectives.and challenges.
Now, now - I know it's a big ask for STW - but let's not divert the thread please.
Yep I'd also rather it wasn't like this on here.
I apologise for the handbags that polluted the thread but not for calling people out for (ironically) starting a fight needlessly about something immaterial to the debate.
No further engagement from me on the matter.
Ditto. Sorry.
Weekly update No.1...
• Missus has had a week off work and is signed off next week as well. Her boss was very understanding as his wife if also of a similar age! She actually switched off and sat and watched some films which she never does.
• She's back on the Citalopram so hopefully that will help with the anxiety. So it isn't exacerbated as much by the menopause hormones.
• We've not had an argument since the 'summit meeting' last Monday morning (well there have been a few moments that could have excalated, but we both somehow reigned in).
• I've got my daughter on side too - she even cleaned the bathroom on Saturday! I don't think she realised how close her mum was to cracking up. She's not a bad daughter but sometimes doesn't see how little things can be big issues the her mum. That half-drunk mug of tea needs pouring away and the mug putting in the dishwasher!
• She's booked some Yoga sessions which she used to enjoy but the horse became all-consuming.
• I don't think my wife truly appreciated how her behaviour was affecting my daughter and me. I think it was my complete acceptance last Monday that if we did break up I'd be fine with it. I think she was expecting more emotion.
...we'll see how things go - but hopefully we're all pulling in the same direction as a family and can work through it.
Bon chance. Hopefully you've got to it before the damage is permanent.
Good news, and let's hope improvements continue.