And again, clearly male privilege has nothing to do with it – who has said it does?
However, there is still a male privilege aspect, that is all.
In the same post! Priceless. Keep 'em coming. 😀
Thread summary:
"Some women are afraid to go out alone."
"Yeah, but they called us names!"
Thread summary:
“Some women are afraid to go out alone.”
“Yeah, but they called us names!”
And your point is caller? 🙂
nobody has disputed that women on a dark trail in the middle of nowhere are not disadvantaged relative to men because in the dark nobody knows you’re female and anyway, there’s only Badgers and Owls about.
I'm going to dispute that. If you really believe there is never anyone about on a dark trail then have a read through one of the "strangest things you have seen whilst out riding" threads on here. There are numerous accounts of riders finding doggers, junkies and other delightful people whilst out riding. Men might find this amusing but women find it genuinely frightening.
On another note, I found this from the BBC last year. It's about a Runners World survey (American).
"What was a surprise was how men, and some women, don't see that it's a prevalent problem," says Michelle Hamilton, the journalist behind the Running While Female story.
The 2017 survey revealed that 43% of women experienced harassment while running - with the number rising to 58% for women under 30. Just 4% of men reported the same.
The poll also found 30% of women said they had been followed by a harasser on foot, by car or bike. And the vast majority of women said these fears led them to change their habits - to run only during the day, to change their routes, to carry pepper spray or - in the case of 1% of women - to carry a loaded gun.
Ms Hamilton recalls a huge response from male runners - a mix of support and scorn. Some called the claims ridiculous while others said women just needed to learn how to protect themselves."
I’m going to dispute that. If you really believe there is never anyone about on a dark trail then have a read through one of the “strangest things you have seen whilst out riding” threads on here. There are numerous accounts of riders finding doggers, junkies and other delightful people whilst out riding. Men might find this amusing but women find it genuinely frightening.
The fact it warranted a specific thread on here suggests these things are so unusual as to be worth a thread. There are two dogging spots near me, they don't go far from their cars and rain+winter puts them off anyway. I really can't see why a junkie would be far out of town at night. I'm sure it's happens but the dangers women face are from other people and by definition being 'in the middle of no-where'.
Take a look at the reported crime maps in your area, the pattern is pretty clear.
On another note [snip]
It certainly is another note. None of this relates to being "in the middle of no-where".
I’m going to dispute that. If you really believe there is never anyone about on a dark trail then have a read through one of the “strangest things you have seen whilst out riding” threads on here. There are numerous accounts of riders finding doggers, junkies and other delightful people whilst out riding. Men might find this amusing but women find it genuinely frightening.
There are numerous accounts because they have all been brought together into one thread - as per thread title. If you opened a thread about UFO sightings and read the numerous accounts of sightings you wouldn't assume that UFOs were prevalent.
The term was first coined in writing as white privilege, before that the original concept was that this privilege was both a legacy and cause of racism. The the two were not seperate. It was a term used by black people. It was then hijacked just like the term #metoo by mostly white women and the meaning changed from its original use. There is a certain irony there, I'll bet most the people on here using both terms are unaware they are appropriating black concepts and demonstrating they are the very same type of people the term was first used to describe.
If you opened a thread about UFO sightings and read the numerous accounts of sightings you wouldn’t assume that UFOs were prevalent.
It's good to hear that it's not prevalent. I'm sure it'll be of great comfort to women to know that they're probably only going to be in danger of being attacked once or twice.
t’s good to hear that it’s not prevalent. I’m sure it’ll be of great comfort to women to know that they’re probably only going to be in danger of being attacked once or twice.
No the chances are they will not be attacked at all cougar, you know that and I know that.
The UK is generally a very safe place, most people don't get attacked when they go outside. Be that the woods or the high street. Violent crime in the UK is rare, but you know that too. It just does not suit your trolling argument.
Violent crime in the UK is rare
With that in mind, would you be happy to go for a midnight stroll on your own through Moss Side?
With that in mind, would you be happy to go for a midnight stroll on your own through Moss Side?
If I had too for some reason I would, but that's not what we are talking about is it. Its just another crap argument isn't it?
There are 790,000 named roads and streets in the UK. How many are you scared to take a stroll on?
If I had too for some reason I would, but that’s not what we are talking about is it. Its just another crap argument isn’t it?
This. False Analogy fallacy. It's just trolling.
There are 790,000 named roads and streets in the UK. How many are you scared to take a stroll on?
So parts of Britain are ‘no-go areas’??? Cougar *is* Donald Trump and I claim my free golf cart. 😀
There's plenty of places I wouldn't go on my own at night.
And no, I'm not trolling. I'm just trying to drive home the point that "mostly safe" is insufficient.
There’s plenty of places I wouldn’t go on my own at night.
And no, I’m not trolling. I’m just trying to drive home the point that “mostly safe” is insufficient.
Its only mostly safe for me too, so got nothing to do with Male Privilege.
Where are you going with this Cougar, its not a coherent argument you are putting forward here.
There’s plenty of places I wouldn’t go on my own at night.
...and whose 'privilege' is that?
…and who’s ‘privilege’ is that?
Its Chuck Norris privilege of course, and while chuck does not realise he is privileged, Cougars situation is not going to get any better.
Its Chuck Norris privilege of course, and while chuck does not realise he is privileged, Cougars situation is not going to get any better.
Of course, because of "Chuck Norris privilege" poor old Cougar and Donald Trump can't travel freely throughout the UK like the rest of us. CN should do something about that.
Oh good grief.
Oh good grief.
I know Cougar its ridiculous to think that just because someone does not have the same problem as you, that its at all connected to the problem in the first place. Who would put that forward as an argument, its crazy 🙂
On a more serious note though, does anyone have Chucks number so he we can let him know hes privileged. Once he realises it I am sure he can change his behaviour so that Cougar is no longer scared to go out at night.
That basically is your argument Cougar, you have to contest that surely?
I haven't read the whole thread, but you might like to read this little article, published by Jenny Tough last week:
That basically is your argument Cougar, you have to contest that surely?
I don't think I can be bothered. Whatever, you win. I've long since lost track of what the hell's going on in this discussion now.
Cougar, we both should have given up yesterday 🙂 Don't worry about it.
We have a difference of opinion on the privilege thing, but I bet we agree on the fact that some people have real fears about stuff they should not really have to worry about in this day and age. Sometimes we need to focus on the stuff that makes a difference, rather than the stuff that divides us.
Edited to add
ceept's post above sums it up for me, stop treating women like helpless victims and they might stop feeling like helpless victims.
What worries me is when women who have yet to have their first adventure have their heads filled with this fear, this idea that the world is not a place for a solo woman to explore. It worries me that those women will spend their whole lives missing out on awesome adventures
100pc this.
I think she's right and far more typical of the women I know - I asked three female friends if they were nervous about filling up with petrol and they ruthlessly took the piss. (...and accused me of backtracking when I excused myself by saying I'd read it on a biking forum.) So I'm not sure that many women in the real world are buying the message that they are the helpless victims the STW dinosaurs want them to be.
I think most people agree that the risk of being attacked in the countryside is quite low for both male and female. However as a female if you do see that lone passer by the questions start passing through your head. Are they going to leave you alone? will they start making creepy pervy comments? if you ignore them will they get verbally aggressive? start following you? what about if I get a puncture and am stuck there fixing it? This is all learned behavior from multiple interactions with unpleasant men throughout life. I know most men are not like that, I also know a large number of men are. You can either go out anyway and ignore the voices in your head and creeps on the street or as many people do take the easier more comfortable option. In response the comments about how nobody knows if your male or female in the dark I can make a good guess at the sex of someone from their silhouette.
Female (will go out on my own in the woods in daylight, will stick to well lit public areas at night)
I haven't read all this, but sounds like there's valid points on both sides. However, I received the following email a few days ago. We live by the University.
A disturbing incident took place yesterday evening, July 14, near our Burnaby campus. At approximately 8:30 pm, a female SFU community member was walking in the Burnaby Mountain trails near the corner of University Dr. West and West Campus Road when an unknown male suspect approached her and attempted to pull her into the bushes. The individual was able to escape and the attacker fled. Burnaby RCMP responded and are investigating.
It takes just one incident, and then no matter how low the risk, the fact it happens means there is a risk, and for many activities, its just not worth it.
I was thinking about it relative to cycling. Many years ago I would happily cycle on any roads but there's too many stories of collisions and fatalities. Today, I normally choose quieter bike routes or those with protected infrastructure which we are safer. The risk of a driver being distracted and hitting me might be low, but its a risk i'd rather not take, or at least reduce. FYI, a cyclist was killed nearby a few weeks ago in a hit and run, the driver was caught and suspected to be drunk. some times its just not worth the risk.
some times its just not worth the risk
What is the risk, have you calculated the odds for those two examples before deciding not to?
What is the risk, have you calculated the odds
Is an irrelevant statement in the real world, unless you have no personal skin in the game (see; male privilege) or are able to separate emotion from fact to an almost Vulcan degree. As you point out, us humans are very bad at judging comparative risk, but that should be acknowledged and empathised with to a certain extent, (as we are all guilty of it to some degree) rather than simply seen as the problem.
I've been around central Manchester at all times of day and night for some years and you see all sorts of women, muslims, visible lesbians, orthodox jews and so on. I've never seen a woman hassled in that time. My experience of some cultures is that sometimes the threat is over-emphasised to enhance their men's control over them.
Is an irrelevant statement in the real world, unless you have no personal skin in the game (see; male privilege) or are able to separate emotion from fact to an almost Vulcan degree.
You reckon?
I am bloody terrified [1] riding safe remote trails at night in winter but I do a lot of it because it's objectively safe.
I feel totally safe and secure [2] riding on roads around town at night in winter but I do little or none of it because it's actually objectively dangerous.
Except for the odd emotional thinker I'd hope that all of use choose actual safety over a sensation of safety most of the time. (Not all of the time - I've been spooked at least once and ridden back through town dodging cars to avoid my normal route in the sticks.)
[1] Potential for Ghosts. [3]
[2] No ghosts. [3]
[3] Which is odd because I don't believe in ghosts.
