[Closed] Madeline Mc Cann

There are so many other missing kids

How many approximately ?

Edit: 123 from the website you linked to. Lots of them seem to be teenagers, tragic but they have some chance of looking after themselves. Not so for a three year old.

Maybe the government should help them too.

Even the ginger ones?

how many other kids went missing whilst thier parents were enjoying a night out and the kids were left home alone..

Agreed there are thousands of missing kids, not to mention the girls abducted in Nigeria and all over the world. However there's a strong feeling that this case is the tip of a huge iceberg of organised abductions in Europe and if this can be cracked, a whole lot of others can be solved as well.

Like so many things in life, if it gets into the media things happen if it doesn't you're on your own. We don't live in a fair country, things would be very different if we did (and I'm not talking about redistribution of wealth fair, I'm talking about all being treated the same by the state fair).

You're wrong, I'm afraid. You're being far too cynical. The authorities would be fully supportive of all families regardless.

So if a couple on benefits were to leave their small (probably semi-feral) child in their council house while they went for a few WKD blue's, and a game or 2 of pool, at their flat-roofed local, they would receive sympathetic media coverage from the Daily Mail, probably a campaign of some kind, and the full support of the authorities

[i] However there's a strong feeling that this case is the tip of a huge iceberg of organised abductions in Europe[/i]

who's strong feeling? Not the police's or they wouldn't be digging up the Algarve?

Yawn... This hasn't been discussed before...

If they'd been asleep in the room next door I may have felt some sympathy for them but I don't. Not one little bit (speaking as the father of a 1 year old and 4 year old who I'd not let out of my sight, let alone leave alone whilst I went for a meal somewhere).

I think the lesson to be learned from all this is that if you're going to kidnap a child, don't pick a pretty little blonde girl, or you'll never hear the last of it.

This thread can only go one way.

there was that council house family in Yorkshire or somewhere that tried the media thing. I was convinced they were trying to get the public sympathy, and for someone to set up a multi-million GBP donations fund like the McCanns managed (and used). They got found out after about 3 days. Think they're banged up with the kids in care.

Can always tell when it's May, cos something happens in the Madeleine story. Not sure how much the McCanns media spokesperson earns.

[i]This thread can only go one way.[/i]

The same way it went the 37 other times it was discussed?

Especially this: [i]I just wonder if the police would care so much if the parents were underemployed and came from a rough council estate.[/i]
I mean, no offence iolo, but go through the forum history, there'll be plenty of points of view on this.

globalti - Member
However there's a strong feeling that this case is the tip of a huge iceberg of organised abductions in Europe and if this can be cracked, a whole lot of others can be solved as well.

wtf are you on about? if you have any proof about this shadowy paedo ring of epic proportions id genuinely like to hear more

The McCann's were slaughtered over that night. Fair play to them for constantly and tirelessly trying to find their daughter.

YES they made a massive mistake on holiday. Growing up I was left to run wild in the woods and wandered upto 12miles once before I was 8. This was common place in the late 70's/80's I bet.

Re the Council estate analogy. Do you think they would tirelessly campaign like the McCann's did/do? Who knows.

No Hora. People who live on council estates just don't understand love and nurture like people with mortgages and company cars. Its an established and unarguable fact. Its their ****lessness, you see

I said who know's.

Whenever I try the 'see all missing children' link on the above website, I get a 'page not found' message. Life can be so cruel

If they'd been asleep in the room next door I may have felt some sympathy for them but I don't. Not one little bit (speaking as the father of a 1 year old and 4 year old who I'd not let out of my sight, let alone leave alone whilst I went for a meal somewhere).

A bit harsh - true they were left alone but it was not like they went out of the resort and into town - they were just the other side of the pool. 30 odd metres.

[img] [/img]

I went to a resort quite similar to this last year (Neilson not Mark Warner but same idea) and it seems to still be quite common practise although admittedly most of the parents I saw doing it had a baby monitor with them. I'm guessing the McCann's didn't but not sure.

Well I can imagine the 'support' they'd get from certain middle-market tabloids, who have been the cheerleaders for the McCanns

I'm pretty sure the abduction of any body's 3 yr old daughter would spark a massive police response.
The main reason it's still in the public eye is as mentioned above the McCanns tireless campaigning to keep it there.

Far too much money spent on trying to find one person.

Far too much money spent on trying to find one person.

I'd rather they spent a billion to catch the person than 'well we could spend it on a new computer system for the NHS'.

Miley Cyrus did it, she'a a lizard

Hora nailed it (with his first post for clarification, sure he'll say something 'odd' at some stage in this thread to spoil that).

There should be no limit to the money spent trying to find this kid, her parents were self centred gits for a night (may have been habitual for all I know) but the kid deserves the best we can offer as a civilised nation. Even if that means finding remains, which seems most likely.

iola - shut up you insensitive ****. If it were my kid, and i am nowhere near posh, then i would be demanding the same!

I mean, no offence iolo, but go through the forum history, there'll be plenty of points of view on this.

But in the news this morning one of the main headlines is this story. Again.

I feel sorry for the parents, tormented with 'its their fault', tormented by others and then tormented by whats happened to her. She was their eldest, their first?

It'll torment them to their grave. Thats not right.

Rob, they would look for your kid for maybe 3 months then give up.
I'm sure you are a fantastic dad.

It's no less than what they have done for missing Ben Needham over the years and I don't his parents were well off. Not that should make any difference.
Maybe if the local police had done a better job to begin with the UK police forces wouldn't need to investigate any further.

there was that council house family in Yorkshire or somewhere that tried the media thing

It'll torment them to their grave. Thats not right.

You know what, that's what being a human being is all about. You make a decision and you get to live with the repercussions be they good or bad.

Are Doctors 'rich' now? I thought Doctors were bloody hardworking and for what they have to deal with (if a GP)- wall to wall germs all day long, infections, rude patients etc. For 60k a year I can think of better jobs no?

You could be an MP for that. You'd make a really good one, I reckon

[img] [/img]

Given their household income is twice the national average perhaps not rich but decently off in comparison with most Brits.

Without going into the semantics over a certain threshold you hit 40% tax. So they'd be how much better off a month for all that training/study/A&E etc etc?

Why bregudge them? They worked for it. ANYWAAY.

If they'd been asleep in the room next door I may have felt some sympathy for them but I don't.

It's comments like this that make me despair about the lack of compassion in certain areas of society. Or is it just random STW keyboard knobbery ?

Lets be anti the McCanns because they are........err, middle class????? Imagine if someone said let's be anti because they are poor or plebs?!?!

I hope they find Madeleine alive but if not at least let them have some closure. For them it's v hard to balance the positive and negative impacts of keeping the story live in the media. I feel for them especially as I am a rotten parent and have done exactly the same thing on a MW holiday. Perhaps we should be locked up or simply sterilised as evil parents???

Knobbery I think?

Lets be anti the McCanns because they are........err, middle class?????

That's got nothing to do with. Some people enjoy being judgmental of others because it makes them feel better about themselves. And they will use any excuse to do so. If the McCanns had been chavs it wouldn't have made any difference at all.

Partially true Ernie (the last bit) but the early posts on here falsify the first bit. There is an obvious undercurrent.....

I feel sorry for the parents, tormented with 'its their fault', tormented by others and then tormented by whats happened to her

It is their fault though. If they'd been in the apartment then what are the chances that a) someone would have broken in and b) taken a child.

It's comments like this that make me despair about the lack of compassion in certain areas of society. Or is it just random STW keyboard knobbery ?

What areas of society are that then?

cb - Member

There should be no limit to the money spent trying to find this kid, her parents were self centred gits for a night (may have been habitual for all I know) but the kid deserves the best we can offer as a civilised nation.

Sure, but... There's 31 kids under 16 on the ceops missing kids website, how many of them have you heard of?

I remember a sad sight in Glasgow, the big "missing persons" signs that usually had a load of local people of all ages from kids to pensioners, all replaced by big Maddy posters. Hard not to get cynical about stuff like that imo

convert - Member

If they'd been asleep in the room next door I may have felt some sympathy for them but I don't. Not one little bit (speaking as the father of a 1 year old and 4 year old who I'd not let out of my sight, let alone leave alone whilst I went for a meal somewhere).

A bit harsh - true they were left alone but it was not like they went out of the resort and into town - they were just the other side of the pool. 30 odd metres.

[img] [/img]

I went to a resort quite similar to this last year (Neilson not Mark Warner but same idea) and it seems to still be quite common practise although admittedly most of the parents I saw doing it had a baby monitor with them. I'm guessing the McCann's didn't but not sure.

Are you sure that's right, I thought the apartment was not visible from where they were.

Edit : i had a map linked but took it off as not sure of it's origins

Slightly ot but we're going to a wedding in August, its an all day affair, church then the rest at the same hotel. The kids are invited. Now I know come 7pm they're gonna have had enough, would you leave them upstairs in the hotel room whilst you continued to drink/be merry.
They're 12 and 9 btw, we're of the inclination to say no at the moment.

It's comments like this that make me despair about the lack of compassion in certain areas of society. Or is it just random STW keyboard knobbery?

This. Written by somebody who is not a parent.

If it was my child I would give up work and bankrupt myself to find him or her and continue until I had clear evidence of death.

Far too much money spent on trying to find one person.

Hora: I'd rather they spent a billion to catch the person than 'well we could spend it on a new computer system for the NHS'.

That's rather Daily Mail reactionary for STW! - You're not seriously suggesting that because governments are often wasteful they shouldn't worry about where they allocate ANY of their spending are you?

wrightyson why not? You know your children. You know if you they are sensible/can be trusted past a certain time. Keep a mobile, give them a mobile. Tell them to ring reception and/or you and not to answer the door.

How many times do paedo's come knocking randomly on hotel room doors asking if there any children inside alone?

Door locked, phone in hand. Your closeby. Why not?

I suppose it's better late than never that a proper investigation by competent authorities has finally been introduced.

I was as surprised as anybody when the Europe-wide prayers, attendance at special shrines and a blessing by the pope didn't work...

Now I know come 7pm they're gonna have had enough, would you leave them upstairs in the hotel room whilst you continued to drink/be merry. They're 12 and 9 btw

I would yes (though obviously I wouldn't get blotto).

At 12 I was happily walking myself home from school (through the woods including a jump over a river) and then letting myself in to an empty house.

And yes, on holiday we have left our baby asleep in the room whilst we sat in the hotel bar. So maybe I'm a bad parent and not the best person to ask.

Oh good, another thread on this....

Yeah daughter walks a mile to school and back each day, picks friends up on her way etc. I'm easier with it than mrs ws but still not 100%.
I'm sure they'll be much happier with some sweets/crisps and tablets/iPods up in the room rather than a load of bore off adults getting slowly pissed.

Agree, dont get drunk and pop up at hourly intervals with a special knock (its me) to check on them. Ask if they want anything then at say just after 9 agree one of you will go up for the evening.

Why stop living your life? Children are part of your life not a sentence.

[i]Far too much money spent on trying to find one person.[/i]

Well i guess you wouldn't say the same if it was your kid.

wrightyson: point out to your wife that in five or so years time your daughter may quite possibly leave home to go to uni/college. That should terrify her 😀

Why not take a trebuchet and simply launch the children in the direction of the hotel window when they get bored, or you fancy another creme de menthe. If its like playing pool, and your aim gets better the more pissed you get, and the bed is lined up in front of the hotel window, problem solved. You won't even have to walk them back to the room

Well i guess you wouldn't say the same if it was your kid.

+1,000,000.

There are so many other missing kids. Not all have blonde hair and have doctors for parents.
Maybe the government should help them too.

Andrew O'Hagen, who was a reporter during the Fred West case and later wrote a book and a play about it, makes an interesting observation. Some people are 'killable'. In the Fred and Rosemary West case, some of their victims had never even been reported missing, let alone subjects of a murder investigation. The Wests were able to take them. torture them and murder them and nobody noticed and nobody cared. But they didn't snatch and abduct them - they simply offered friendship and refuge that no one else was offering.

I've got good friends who were at times in their past were amongst the people who've fallen through the cracks in society and missed the safety net. They found their way back, even if it took decades to do it, but in that time anything that happened to them seemed to be fair game and sadly the worst abuses (and some were truly dreadful) they suffered came from people who at first presented themselves as a friendly face and a helping hand, they could have been killed just as easily as they were raped and beaten and nobody would have known or cared. And the people who did that were able to operate that way because absolutely nobody else [i]was[/i] a friendly face or a helping hand.

Nasty people have eyes that can see these people when non of the rest of us can, it seems. I'm not sure how a government can frame legislation to change that

This list will give you an idea of the scale of unexplained disappearances. These are only the people who were still above the safety net:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_disappeared_mysteriously

Gary_M - Member

Well i guess you wouldn't say the same if it was your kid

But you probably would, if you were one of the other parents whose kid got less attention and resources, no?

I'm supprised that this is coming up again, the McCanns have issues with Max Clifford to worry about and with whats just gone on feel they need to push thier cause once again. This I can't blame them for but you do have to wonder about thier motivation.

I was once a sceptic, despite the nature of the "abduction" or whatever you want to call it I felt they shouldn't have left a 3yr old alone and my thought's still stand. But then they have to live with that.
No one deserves to see (or not see) a child go missing.

However I've softened over the years, thier tenacity and publicity making hasn't ceased therefore I find myself supporting them (begrudgingly) and hope they do find some outcome soon, if for nothing else than the constant publicity they have been courting ceases.

I feel sorry for the people and businesses of praia da luz.

I'm supprised that this is coming up again

As a press story it had legs from the outset - class and looks are a big deal to news editors. Its not wrong they shed light on one story, just a failing they don't shed it on others - but also the the parents - clear, articulate are press friendly too. In the weeks and months that followed that meant they could keep the story open and active. Look at the missing Malaysian plane - thats disappeared from the news and completely as it disappeared from radar.

What they suffered from as a result is their life is now completely defined by that campaign - they say fame is a face that eats into the face but the McCanns are, aside from having lost a child and having no closure, seem to be condemned to one expression and one tone of voice - possibly for ever.

I'm supprised that this is coming up again

it's May.

it comes up every May, mainly due to someone giving it media attention.

every time it comes up, my suspicion sways a little more towards the McCanns.

THe bit I dont understand is why the Met police are investigating a crime in portugal that involved a family from Leicestershire. What has it got to do with the Met?

seem to be condemned to one expression and one tone of voice - possibly for ever.

Tragic isn't it?

If they [i]ever[/i] manage a momentary smile I'm sure some enterprising pap will snap it and it'll be used out of context to show how definitely guilty they are 🙁

every time it comes up, my suspicion sways a little more towards the McCanns.

Because the one thing you'd do if you'd got away with a murder is to sink your entire life and money into ensuring that it stays in the public eye and that investigations into it get re-opened?

That'd be a pretty ballsy bluff!

@hora is spot on with his post.

Should we really berate the McCann's for being doctors, for being "rich" or at keast more wealth than the supposed average household ? I have no doubt they have suffered enormous anguish over their decision to leave their daughter whilst they where out at dinner and in being considered suspects. What we must give them credit for is keeping their daughter's story in the press and putting pressure on the authorities to keep the case open.

What I don't 'get' is the ire aimed at them.. The greatest punishment an innocent person can receive is something that they could have prevented. Can you imagine what they'll be putting themselves through? Class or job/standing shouldn't come into it.

Is this what its about? They should have known better? Sadly everyone makes mistakes. Lots we get away with that no one will ever hear about as we survived. Some people end up dead in road accidents. Its no difference, we are all human.

They get ire because , to some degree, their behaviours enabled the crime

now thankfully most of us have moved on from saying the rape victim was dressed provocatively and should not have been in that part of the town at that time.

the Mc Canns did something daft and they have paid a high price. they are and always will be VICTIMS

If you cannot empathise with them and know they know they should have done things differently - Imagine living with that - seriously Imagine living with that
They are victims please stop victimising them

Is this what its about? They should have known better?

Yes,

Yes I think it is.

However I do feel for them pacing this lonely trail they have got to tread, they have got to do it too.. for sure to apease both of them and the media attention if nothing else.

I mean, if they stoped pursuing it, they'd be branded "uncaring/guilty" etc.. and that would be truely awful 😉

Junkyard - lazarus

They get ire because , to some degree, their behaviours enabled the crime

They are victims please stop victimising them

THe bit I dont understand is why the Met police are investigating a crime in portugal that involved a family from Leicestershire. What has it got to do with the Met?

That's a tricky point - they aren't investigating a crime 'in Portugal', they are investigating the disappearance of Madeline McCann. Basically that means they don't own the investigation in Portugal, the Portuguese police do and by the accounts I've been given (by someone very close to the investigation) they are a nightmare to deal with.

Everything the Met does has to go through the Portuguese police first and get sign off. That takes an interminable age apparently and is one of the reasons why the case has never really had a thorough investigation. They cannot run any on the ground investigation without prior consent (which is perhaps understandable) and from the start, the whole thing was seriously botched, in particular the failure to rule out the sighting of the man carrying the young girl close to the apartment at an early stage.

When the Met finally identified that couple and went to talk to them the first thing they commented on was they were surprised no one had been to talk to them before because they always though they were that sighting (one also wonders why they hadn't come forward).

The thinking now is that the later sighting, at around 10pm, close to the the beach is the abduction.

As for why it is the Met investigating, I suppose this is because they are best placed to coordinate such an investigation when that has to be done through another country's police force. It is also where the best resources are and the coordination with organisations like Interpol are managed from.